Reddit is removing the debunking posts, so I’ll post it here.
If it’s debunk then explain this:
Wow, can’t argue with that kind of totally true and real evidence of things that actually happened. /s
There’s so much debunking this, it’s weird how these terminally online weirdos keep stretching it out
We’ve got real issues like fascism and ethnic cleansing, but these freaks are only focused on manufactured dramaslop. Boggles my mind
I’ll only speak for myself, I was focused on fascism and genocide and protest, had half forgotten about this particular bit of streamer drama, and then today some more Hasan/Kaya stuff came into my feed. That’s why we’re here now.
Wait, why is there a Hasan stan community on Lemmy? Reddit is definitely not removing the debunking posts, they were stickied on Hasan’s sub there for quite a while. Where is this getting removed from?
I can’t believe we’re still talking about this either, but sure.
Content creators and their fans became convinced that, in that moment, Piker pressed an off-screen button to violently shock Kaya, who – according to their telling of events – he has been secretly torturing for years. In the coming days, they reinforced their claims with clips in which Piker reached in a direction and Kaya, napping, did not make any noise but suddenly moved, as well as others in which Piker orders Kaya – clearly trained – to go back to her spot.
They “became convinced” because they studied the evidence from Hasan’s own stream, including not just his refusal to do logical things like show the collar immediately during the many hours of streaming when people were asking about it (he only showed it after a break), refusal to identify which model of collar it was and claiming it was only able to vibrate (and then people figured out and proved that it was a shock collar which had been modified to look like a vibrating collar, poorly), other objectively abusive behavior like grabbing and yanking a dog by its tail, hiding the shock remote (which was exactly in the location he reached for during the CollarGate incident) when there was a camera up at a different angle that could see it, and so on.
He’s backed this up by showing the collar to his audience.
Lol
For the “did not shock” contingent: What’s even your explanation for what happened? Was it a vibrating collar, or a modified shock collar? Why did he modify it and when? Why was he sure that Kaya “clipped herself” when he didn’t see it happen, and why did he later change the explanation to that she didn’t know how she hurt herself (and why are his stans still contradicting his explanation and insisting it must have been her dew claw and they know that that happened)? Do you think it was the dew claw, or do you think it’s unknown how she hurt herself? I just want to hear what is the coherent explanation for what happened, and see whether it makes sense and lines up with what we can literally see with our eye balls.
My explanation is that there really isn’t enough evidence to say exactly what happened to make her act that way. She could have hurt herself or got startled or something else.
I believe he showed that he has a collar which vibrates and demonstrated it on stream. It possible that the collar could also have a shock setting but that’s not proof he uses it that way when training.
Since this article there have been no supporting eye witnesses and no reliable secondary sources supporting the shock claim. In fact, there is testamony of not shocking by eye witnesses and people who have first-hand experience with the situation.
So until there’s reporting from reliable sources (with editorial oversight) or eye witness testamony it feels to me that it’s a conspiracy theory.
My explanation is that there really isn’t enough evidence to say exactly what happened to make her act that way. She could have hurt herself or got startled or something else.
Why is it reasonable to you that Hasan had a ready-made explanation for what specifically had happened?
Most of why I think this is suspicious is Hasan’s reaction and explanations for things being obviously dishonest. Saying that Kaya “clipped herself” is one example of that. It (and his overall reaction on stream at the time) seem like a very weird way to react to your pet suddenly showing that she’s in pain.
I believe he showed that he has a collar which vibrates and demonstrated it on stream. It possible that the collar could also have a shock setting but that’s not proof he uses it that way when training.
I agree with all of that, sure. It doesn’t really address the question. It’s not that it’s “possible” that the collar had a shock function – it 100% had a shock function, and then he covered up the shocking parts with tape and claimed that it only had a vibrate function. Isn’t that a weird thing to do? Or do you not think factually that all of that is how it happened?
Since this article there have been no supporting eye witnesses and no reliable secondary sources supporting the shock claim.
I mean, there have been no supporting eye witnesses and no reliable secondary sources supporting the vibrate / dew claw theory, but that doesn’t seem to be stopping anyone. Most of the reason I am strongly anti Hasan on this issue is (a) just observing how he interacts with Kaya and other dogs (b) the fact that he’s clearly being dishonest when he speaks about the issue.
Do videos like him pulling the other dog by its tail not bother you? Like would it ever occur to you to interact with a dog that way? For me it would not, and I think if someone near me did it I would yell at them.
Edit: Oh, also, why do you think Reddit is deleting this? When did they delete the debunking? The “debunking” video is literally still the top pinned post on Hasan’s subreddit right now.
I feel like a lot of what was outlined here is speculation on motives or speculation for why he reacted a certain way. But I don’t see this as evidence since when it comes to motives and reactions there are an unlimited number of possible explanations. I feel like it’s jumping to conclusions to say with certainty why someone acted a certain way.
For the reddit thing, I saw a sticky post on reddit saying no more discussion about shock collars. So I posted here instead.
I mean, it’s objectively true that he claimed that Kaya “clipped herself” when he officially supposedly had no idea what happened (he later changed the story). It’s also objectively true that he held up a modified shock collar on stream and claimed it was a vibrating collar.
Sure, I tend to read some speculations into those facts. What I’m asking for is what is the innocent speculation that could be read into those, the plausible explanation where those were honest things to do, that someone who was being aboveboard with their audience would ever do those things. And then, sure, I continue on from there to say that if it kind of looks like he could have shocked the dog, and then the explanation he comes up with for why he didn’t is clearly this absolute whirlwind of misdirection and bullshit, then that probably means he shocked the dog and then lied about it. I don’t feel like that’s this wild out-of-pocket thing to conclude. Why he shocked the dog, I haven’t said a word about, although I have my thoughts about it.
(Also, it’s objectively true that when he was mad at one dog he grabbed its tail and yanked it over to where he wanted it to be. That one, I don’t need to ask: It means in that instant, you’re a piece of shit. I don’t care what the motivation or reason behind it was, it’s still painful and potentially serious injurious to the dog.)
I saw a sticky post on reddit saying no more discussion about shock collars
On Hasan’s subreddit? I wonder why that is lol. That’s not really Reddit deleting the debunking though. LSF is still happily roasting him for it multiple times daily with all sorts of new content (some of which is damning like the tail-pulling video, some of which I think they’re kind of making a mountain out of a molehill of some minor clip because they’re excited now, and most of which is too deeply embedded in this whole stupid streamer-universe for me to want to pay attention to.) Reddit certainly is allowing discussion of shock collars. I think you mean Hasan’s subreddit is saying no more discussion about shock collars (which, good fuckin’ luck lol.)
I don’t know if the objectively true things listed are well supported or evidence of a cover up.
For the modified shock collar theory, according to the NY post article, he demonstrated it vibrating on stream. If it was a modified shock-only collar it wouldn’t be possible to vibrate it.
For Hasan’s initial suggestion that she clipped herself it doesn’t mean she necessarily did, only that he thought that’s what happened. I feel like him changing his statement later to say that he doesn’t really know why she acted that way isn’t evidence of shocking, rather admitting his initial theory may not be correct.
Yeah, the sticky was on the Hassan subreddit. Of course things likely changed since then.
I don’t know if the objectively true things listed are well supported
They are.
- Detailed explanation of which model collar he has, why it is clearly the shock version and not the vibration-only version. It seems perfectly compelling to me and nothing Hasan has said has addressed it in the slightest that I have seen.
- “Clipped herself” was the official explanation until it wasn’t, did you really not see that?
- Video of Hasan pulling the dog by its tail
Those are the three factual things I cited. What out of that is not factual?
according to the NY post article
Oh, well in that case lol
If it was a modified shock-only collar it wouldn’t be possible to vibrate it.
Not at all true. Shock collars can also vibrate (in general and also for the specific model in question). The point is that it was clearly a specific model that could either shock or vibrate, and he removed the prongs and taped over where they used to be. Watch the YouTube video above to see details and model numbers.
For Hasan’s initial suggestion that she clipped herself it doesn’t mean she necessarily did, only that he thought that’s what happened.
I will go back to: Isn’t that weird to you? Like if your animal suddenly made a noise of pain, would you just decide on a random explanation that was a “suggestion” and start telling people that’s what happened? What if she hurt herself? What if she needed help or had something stuck in her paw or something? What’s the innocent explanation where he was super confident about his “suggestion” for about a day and then changed it to the alleged truth, which is that he doesn’t know what happened? What else might be “suggestions” do you think? This is why it means absolutely nothing to me when Hasan “debunks” something by assuring people that it’s not true: He’s already clearly fine being dishonest, so why would I believe him about other stuff?
Yeah, the sticky was on the Hassan subreddit. Of course things likely changed since then.
What likely changed since then? Do you think discussion and debunking is now allowed on Hasan’s subreddit? Or just everywhere else on Reddit as it always has been?
Another bonus: Israel’s behind it
If it’s a model which can shock or vibrate then everything checks out when it comes to Hasan’s statements. It doesn’t matter if it is a model which can shock as well. Just because the model has the capability to shock doesn’t prove that he is using it that way.
In other words, if we assume good faith, nothing that he said can be disproven as not happening according to the way it was described.
