Sede View at a Minimum

I forget Lovs if I have posted about my developed thoughts on this situation as time’s gone on, but I think basically right now we have the sedevacantist view which in some way I think at a minimum all Catholics need to adopt (the view that Catholics currently have no pope, and Vatican 2 must be rejected)

Clergy Issue with Sede View

However, the sedevacantist “pure” view is kind of cornered: they have no pope, yes, but much more than that, no clergy with ordinary jurisdiction. This seems to logically imply to me that there must be Catholic clergy in the Vatican 2 church.

Another Western Schism?

The only way to “have this both ways” then I think is to think of the situation as a kind of “virtual schism” like the Western Schism was. During the Western Schism, there were two antipopes and a pope and confusion about if there was a pope at all or who the pope was, for 40 years. Those Catholics following antipopes were not considered to be formal schismatics, nor even “material” schismatics, but fully Catholic.

Implying a Future Resolution

Likewise today I think most people conventionally think Vatican 2 is Catholic and Francis is the pope of Catholicism - if this is incorrect, as sedevacantists assert, it doesn’t seem that such people are to be considered to be non-Catholic for erronenously following a big institution that purports to be the Catholic Church. I think there is instead a “genuine confusion” and therefore that the remedy to this will have to be the whole Vatican 2 church along with the scattered “independent” traditionalist groups all coming together, affirming a rejection of Vatican 2, and proceeding to elect a pope who is actually Catholic. This will have to mirror the papal election that ended the confusion of the Western Schism, where the pope and antipopes resigned mutually and then a pope was elected and agreed upon and the confusion was ended (Martin V was elected at the Council of Constance).

Alternative Proposed Resolutions

A lot of the alternative view seems to go in some “independent” direction, which has led to a bunch of schisms, no one agreeing on things, strained small groups, people without authority being thrust into leadership positions, and so on. This has implied to me a need for a more “total” solution that “converts” the V2 church back to Catholicism, rather than set up an enduring “independent” entity. A minority simply thinks there is no pope nor clergy today and awaits the end of the world, some “home alone sedevacantists”. My main problem with this view is simply that the world continues, now even decades after they have been thinking the world will end “imminently”. Another alternative view was the idea sedevacantists should just elect a pope separately of their own and forget the V2 church (“conclavism”). This has been attempted, but never really took off, and to me again implies a need for a “bigger” solution to the problem. Then there are all these various “independent” religious organizations or chapels, who are often in disagreement with one another, are disorganized, and are scattered. I don’t think they have authority to operate (they lack ordinary jurisdiction), but in themselves whatever is to be said of them, they’re not a long term solution that addresses how Catholics are to get a pope, unless they are a variant of a group waiting for the end times. So I haven’t really liked this approach and attempts at organization have been thwarted with disagreements and schisms.

Conclusion

The groups like in the OP are a temporary and necessary attempt to separate from a formerly Catholic system which is “off kilter”. However, I tend to think the Vatican 2 church can and must be “reformed” back to pre-Vatican 2 traditional Catholicism, rather than that Catholics will end up leaning in to these fractured “independent” entities for the long term. Somehow the world must become convinced of the sedevacantist position, which will lead naturally to a resolution with the election of a future pope who will be Catholic without question.