Excuse me while I go donate even more money to PieFed
Why bother with the 1 way federation, though?
So your users can go on their instance, I guess? That’s not a great reason. Cut them off or don’t.
Agreed, there is no good reason for a one way federation with a trash instance.
Even if the idea is that they have communities that aren’t horrible, the taint is strong enough that the same communities should just be promoted on non/less shitty instances.
What gets me is that their users are so smug. It’s really off-putting.
Agreed, there is no good reason for a one way federation with a trash instance.
there is if you want to allow your users to get revenge, and that seems to be what @rimu@piefed.social is aiming for here. weaponizing software to harass an instance.
That’s also how Lemmy defederation and user blocking works FYI so it’s not unique to PieFed
That’s also exactly how dessalines built Lemmy’s “block” system for both users and instance blocks
I remember way back when world was still federated with most of the triad. Hexbear honestly has no one but themselves to blame. With nothing of value to offer. But cycles of revenge and retribution are hardly helpful.
They got their asses rightfully kicked to the curb for brigading. I have zero sympathy for them in this situation. But this is still disappointing behavior on the part of @rimu@piefed.social and makes me a bit more reluctant to recommended piefed to others etc. Even though .world outright blocks hex anyways. I hope it gets addressed sooner rather than later. Because I “REALLY” like the experience so far on piefed. And would like to see it prosper. Even though this will be a bit of a blemish on the project. That’s nothing compared to Lemmy and its devs.
Have a dialogue front and center to opt in to blocking the whole triad when setting up the software. Nothing wrong with that at all. But yeah, please don’t stirr up the dumbass’s nest. They’re better off being irrelevant and largely ignored. Even if it’s funny ironically for this to happen to them. It’s just more pointless drama.
Example of two Piefed instances that currently federate hexbear:
- https://piefed.zip/instances?page=9&filter=federated&search=
- https://piefed.au/instances?page=6&filter=federated&search=
- https://anarchist.nexus/instances?page=4&filter=federated&search= , which is related to https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/, also federated with hexbear
List of Piefed instances that currently defederate hexbear:
- https://piefed.blahaj.zone/ , the same way https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/ does
- https://piefed.world/, the same way https://lemmy.world/ does
- https://piefed.ca/, the same way https://lemmy.ca/ does
- https://feddit.online/, the same way https://fedia.io/ does (by the way, Fedia isn’t a software, it’s called Mbin, and doesn’t have such code, so not sure why you’re including them into your title)
- https://quokk.au/, it used to be the same when it was still a Lemmy instance
- https://piefed.europe.pub/, the same way https://europe.pub/ does
https://piefed.fediverse.observer/list
As you can see, instances defederating hexbear are instances managed by teams which were going to do so anyway, as they already did on Lemmy.
Instances who want to federate know how to do so, there are three examples.
I think it’s the other way around, actually. It sounds like hex users are actually receiving posts from outside but it’s their own content that is being blocked
IMO, it’s not great regardless of which direction it’s going. Fuck ML’ers, but it isn’t really necessary to create one-way engagement with them.
If they decided to block the other direction, I’d be fine with that.
the one-way federation isn’t a block, it’s encouragement for users of piefed to go and harass hexbear out of revenge. this is nothing more than @rimu@piefed.social weaponizing the platform, and honestly I wish we had known this was going to happen. I wouldn’t of tried so hard to convince people to create the instance I’m on with piefed.
maybe a fork is possible. blocking hexbear is one thing, but it should be our choice, not the choice of an admin from another instance. someone else getting to dictate who you speak with is no different than facebook or twitter. it’s gross and out of line.
the one-way federation isn’t a block, it’s encouragement for users of piefed to go and harass hexbear out of revenge
This is exactly how defederation works on Lemmy itself, until the other instance also defederates to complete the circuit
this is nothing more than @rimu@piefed.social weaponizing the platform,
You mean like Lemmy devs weaponize Lemmy? Don’t you find it the slightest bit odd that all the features that could be used against them - blocking, robust voting systems, robust modlog, good mod tools - are conveniently implemented poorly, not implemented at all or outright “downgraded”?
but it should be our choice, not the choice of an admin from another instance.
How does an admin of another instance make that choice for you? If instance A starts going crazy on the blocklist, then Instance B can choose to no longer subscribe to As blocklist
maybe a fork is possible. blocking hexbear is one thing, but it should be our choice, not the choice of an admin from another instance
Piefed.zip managed to federate just fine
I can’t see any content from Hexbear looking from Piefed.social. So how would I go about harassing hexbear users?
How do they harass users or communities they can’t see?
I have this weird feeling that piefed and world are corporate try to go back to centralised social media. Just paranoid.
the one-way federation isn’t a block, it’s encouragement for users of piefed to go and harass hexbear out of revenge.
You dont seem to understand how defederation works. Those users you’re worried about harassinf Hexbear are the ones who can’t even see Hexbear posts or users to harass them in the first place.
And to me that’s fucking hilarious. Those slimy little trolls will finally get a taste of their own medicine.
Fuck Hexbear, and fuck tankies. They’ve tortured and harassed me for pointing out their hypocrisy. I wish them the absolute worst.
By becoming paternalistic, the engine starts becoming what it criticizes. It’s better if users themselves can choose what they want / don’t want to see.
If a user wants to see that, they are free to make an account on the triad themselves, admins should not have to platform their toxicity and misinformation.
And it’s also toxic to user uptake in general, a Threadiverse veteran will know what to block, a brand new user on the cusp of breaking from Big Tech social media won’t. They’ll see that crap and bail, then go on to talk about how they “tried that threadiverse stuff and found a whole bunch of pro-Russia/DPRK simps”
At the end of the day though. It isn’t the instances themselves which are actually the problem. Rather the people on them. We can rightfully rail against them all day long as much as we want. And they do give us plenty daily to point out all their flaws.
It also won’t change the fact that many of them can and already have set up shop on other servers as well. Even if you blocked every domain ending in ML. That type isn’t going away. If anything those instances do quite a bit to contain/expose them.
The problem with defaulting a software to cut them off. Is akin to those trying to legislate morality. When morality is legislated, no one is moral. Because there is no choice or consent. Likewise a “boycott” entered into without knowledge and consent, isn’t really a “boycott”. Can we beat them by becoming like them? I’m not so sure.
Still, baked into the engine, it doesn’t have a healthy prospect. If someone ill intended is involved, he/she can use such an instance as a distraction to set a precedent and narrow further and further what people can and can’t see. And when those that would previously applause it notice the problem, it has the risk of being too late.
I think that is only partially true
Social media tends toward extremes and it takes man hours to do moderation. Instead of continuously banning hexbear users it would be better to just ban the instance.
Example of two Piefed instances that currently federate hexbear:
- https://piefed.zip/instances?page=9&filter=federated&search=
- https://piefed.au/instances?page=6&filter=federated&search=
- https://anarchist.nexus/instances?page=4&filter=federated&search= , which is related to https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/, also federated with hexbear
List of Piefed instances that currently defederate hexbear:
- https://piefed.blahaj.zone/ , the same way https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/ does
- https://piefed.world/, the same way https://lemmy.world/ does
- https://piefed.ca/, the same way https://lemmy.ca/ does
- https://feddit.online/, the same way https://fedia.io/ does (by the way, Fedia isn’t a software, it’s called Mbin, and doesn’t have such code, so not sure why you’re including them into your title)
- https://quokk.au/, it used to be the same when it was still a Lemmy instance
- https://piefed.europe.pub/, the same way https://europe.pub/ does
https://piefed.fediverse.observer/list
As you can see, instances defederating hexbear are instances managed by teams which were going to do so anyway, as they already did on Lemmy.
Instances who want to federate know how to do so, there are three examples.
PieFed dev here.
The screenshotted post is very misleading. As you’d expect from a hexbearian. It is not a baked-in ban.
Hexbear is mentioned in the PieFed source code, as an initial default value for the defederation list. That list is quite long and includes various instances that have been a source of trolls, CSAM and spam in the past (mostly Mastodon instances). As part of the normal setup process it is assumed that instance admins will review that list and alter it as they see fit. They can change it any time by going to instance.tld/admin/federation.
Do not take anything a hexbearian says at face value.
Maybe you should bake it in then. Maybe you are not going far enough…
Thank you for your good work, whats the funding status been like for you lately?
The per-user donations for PieFed are half that of Lemmy (and the number of users are 5% of Lemmy). More is always welcome.
Sent you a little tip. Ever consider setting up a KoFi?
Thanks! Will look into KoFi, it seems popular…
Correct me if I’m wrong, but this also wouldn’t mean “one way federation” right? There would just be no synching at all.
I’m not sure what they mean by that. But v1.2, to be released very soon, has strengthened the effectiveness of defederation so pretty soon hexbear will see even less PieFed content. They’ll twist that into something bad too.
They defederated now anyway
I assume if you are on instance A and post something on instance B, your instance doesn’t federate with hexbear but instance B does, then you will not see the comments from the hexbear user through your instance? Not certain if that is how it works or not though.
Thank you for jumping in.
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That’s not at all what the above comment says.
It’s crazy how that happened. Just…fully read something different.
Sometimes I think even with telepathy people would find a way to miscommunicate.
Not sure what they said or how off topic it was but I would like to point out that Connect has this rare bug where posting a comment in one thread, sometimes ends up posting to a totally different and random thread on a totally different and random post.
The comment expressed their amazement that, among their other faults, hexbear also had a CSAM problem.
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When you read worse than ChatGPT 3.5
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5 minutes account
That’s exactly what this is, an initial defed list. Even the way they present this is disingenous as fuck, calling it a “one way federation, silencing our voices” or some other weird phrasing, making it sound like some underhanded/hidden hardcoded piece just for them, when it’s just a boring-ass defederation with one instance among many others. How difficult is it to say “piefed software defederates hexbear by default”? Everyone knows what that fucking means!
I honestly don’t understand why everything has to be taken so goddamn uncharitably by the regulars on that instance. It blows my mind how they manage to always act in bad faith. Always.
I honestly don’t understand why everything has to be taken so goddamn uncharitably by the regulars on that instance. It blows my mind how they manage to always act in bad faith. Always.
It’s pretty straightforward, imo, they built a feedback loop into their instance culture that encouraged social dopamine junkies to participate in toxic behaviors, valuing things like “dunking”, othering, and dehumanizing the out group (non-hexies) over things like factuality, good faith, and not being dicks.
we need a fediverse-wide boycott of hexbear
And lemmyml
Nah lemmyml is quite valuable. Mayhaps you thinkest of grad.
I wouldn’t go that far. If everyone moved off of lemmyml people would be forced to find different communities or create new ones.
Go big or go home
Eh…like, don’t get me wrong, I’m a rabid progressive…but those guys? The ML Leftists? They scare the shit out of me. Like, they’d go full Red August and be totally fine with it.
Haha, yeah. Trying to find a post from a while ago. A tankie basically straight up said there’s nothing wrong with power struggles between ideologies after I said leftists will never ally with tankies because they always fucking kill them afterwards.
less so but yeah they’re pretty toxic
Idk, just got done reading yet another monologue from Cowbee about how the PRC really is better than the U.S. in every single way — I’d personally weigh .ml as being much more toxic.
yeah, they’re fucking trash…
and such propaganda garbage, i’m honestly just going to leave lemmy entirely if this is allowed to continue.
users get banned for abusive behavior, why not the entire instance?
the instances both encourage and just about require abuse…. and incredibly evil shit, like there’s a new trend of trying to manipulate the palestinian genocide to attack leftists.
like reuters, aoc, radiohead….
hexagon started out on reddit as el chapo trap house, and was banned for repeatedly abusing the site, including brigading other subs….
so why allow instances who’s main purpose is to deceive or otherwise attack other instances?
the fediverse will not work if we allow instances dedicated to abusing other instances.
if they were alt-right chuds, they would’ve been defederated a long time ago… but instead we have government propaganda pretending to be alt-left and that’s allowed?
and there’s no fucking way real flesh and blood people are really arguing that the PRC is better than the US in every way…Then… Get on an instance that defederates the tankie trio? That’s the beauty of the fediverse, you get to curate your experience.
if they were alt-right chuds, they would’ve been defederated a long time ago… but instead we have government propaganda pretending to be alt-left and that’s allowed?
This isn’t reddit, there’s no one central authority picking who gets defederated and who doesn’t. Chose an instance that aligns with your values
no shit, no shit, also no shit….
?
I assumed you were a new user so I was trying to offer helpful advice. Not sure why you’re being passive aggressive and downvoting me, but ok. For somebody complaining about the state of the fediverse you’re not doing a great deal to be the change you want to see.
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doesn’t mastodon also bake in blocks of some nazi/csam instances? at least that’s what I’ve heard.
I don’t like that, even as a person who chose my instance because it defederated from them.
From my understanding, it’s just a switch that defaults to “On” an instance admin can toggle off during setup or later
Yes, that’s right.
The screenshot characterizes it as a hardcoded thing, implying that it cannot be altered through the UI. This is not the case.
that is not true, according to our admins they have talked to both rimu and hexbear, with no luck. we don’t have any control over it and rimu refuses to give us the choice.
This is incorrect as stated in a comment below
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Yes.
according to our admins
I thought that part was pretty easy to understand, but let me make it clearer for you.
Admins cannot switch the block on or off. The block cannot be toggled by admins. Admins don’t have control over toggling the block. The option to toggle the block is unavailable to admins. Admins lack permission to toggle the block. Admins have no way to switch the block setting. The block toggle is outside admin capabilities. Admins are unable to enable or disable the block. The block toggle is not something admins can access. Admins do not have the right to change the block state. The system prevents admins from toggling the block. Admins have no authority to flip the block switch. Toggling the block is not possible for admins. Admins aren’t allowed to switch the block on or off. The block state cannot be modified by admins. Admins don’t possess the ability to toggle the block. Admins are restricted from toggling the block. The block toggle option is disabled for admins. Admins can’t turn the block on or off. Toggling the block is beyond admin privileges.
I hope this clears it up for you.
All of this is incorrect.
You lost the chance to slowly convert into zalgo text as this progressed
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http://piefed.social/comment/6970001
Hexbear and lemmygrad will always be blocked and PieFed is coded to block them by default on all new instances (admins can change it). No plans to defederate lemmy.ml as I’ve built mod tools that help me find the most odious users & banned them and now it’s tolerable. lemy.lol is blocked because of it’s fascist logo. That’s about it.
(admins can change it).
If you can’t toggle it, then your setup is busted in some way
After discussing it again with my admins, I have been informed I misunderstood them, and there is in fact a toggle. I was wrong.
Gonna maybe go back and note that in your previous initial response so you’re not misleading people with your misinformation?
If Lemmy wants to start a war between the Fediverse and Lemmy then let’s make it happen, I’ve already got a piefed.world account set up so I’d love to watch the Lemmy platform die in fire and smoke.
I can get onboard with that. Fuck the evil tankie idiots.
isnt piefed just a lemmy instance? im confused with all this -verse stuff
It’s more like Piefed is Wendy’s and Lemmy is McDonalds. They both serve burgers and fries (ActivityPub on the Fediverse) but they’re created and maintained by completely unrelated people.
I hate this comparison because I hate fast food
What do you like?
the beach :)
Piefed is like Hawaii and Lemmy is like Fiji: same ocean and sand but different people.
They’re both different applications with different ui and behavior that talk the same protocol (ActivityPub)
Good luck with that they/them in Russia.
it’s fine, once in russia they will be in the communist utopia of their dreams, at which point all will join into one gestalt consciousness.
due to morality laws, that consciousness will be identify as a cis man.
Has no one told them the communism thing was over in the eighties?
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Am I missing something? Aside from the “baked in” claim, how is this different from defeds on Lemmy? It’s always one way, ie the instance that defeds can’t see content from the other instance, but the target instance can still see them.
Blocking an instance in lemmy, just stops direct communication between the two instances. However it does not stop you from seeing their comments or posts on third instances.
So for example you would be able to read this comment, even if lemmy.ca would have blocked slrpnk.net, because we are on sh.itjust.works. In Piefed you would not.
I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works. Even on communities from another instance, I don’t see anything from defederated users.
*A quick rough search and I found this post (https://lemmy.ca/post/49536847) (apologies for the content, it’s just an example). It’s absolutely flooded with hex users “contributions”, but I see none of that.
It is indeed the same, some comments in that thread make it look like some people discovered defederation today
Ok, that’s what I thought. Which is funny because I learned how it works after learning that hex admins (generally) defed mutually to avoid a one way issue, exactly like they’re freaking out about here.
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Account created 10 minutes ago
Checks out
basically forced your political opinions on naive actors
Kinda like how the lemmy devs ban people from communities they don’t even run for having different political opinions?
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Oh, it’s rage bait
Not even ragebait, just a particularly insane and deranged individual with thousands of accounts.
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Hi antiyank! Back with another fresh troll account I see lol
Nothin but a lil troll
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It just works.
I don’t follow this meme terribly well as I don’t know the context.
I hate to learn that there is trouble in the social media that has saved me from corporatocracy and technocracy bullying.
I don’t know a hexbear from a hex
Fediverse wide
Do they think they have influence beyond the ML instances?
There’s a lot of .ml users who make accounts on sjw and fail at radicalizing those users.
I believe it
think
There is the error in the logic.
It’s exhausting wasting effort on those that put none in.
