I recently replaced an ancient laptop with a slightly less ancient one.

  • host for backups for three other machines
  • serve files I don’t necessarily need on the new machine
  • relatively lightweight - “server” is ~15 years old
  • relatively simple - I’d rather not manage a dozen docker containers.
  • internal-facing
  • does NOT need to handle Android and friends. I can use sync-thing for that if I need to.

Left to my own devices I’d probably rsync for 90% of that, but I’d like to try something a little more pointy-clicky or at least transparent in my dotage.

Edit: Not SAMBA (I freaking hate trying to make that work)

Edit2: for the young’uns: NFS (linux “network filesystem”)

Edit 3: LAN only. I may set up a VPN connection one day but it’s not currently a priority. (edited post to reflect questions)

Last Edit: thanks, friends, for this discussion! I think based on this I’ll at least start with NFS + my existing backups system (Mint’s thing, which is I think just a gui in front of rcync). May play w/ modern SAMBA if I have extra time.

Ill continue to read the replies though - some interesting ideas.

  • RedEye FlightControl@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    TrueNas is pretty top notch and offers a variety of storage and protocol options. If you’re at all familiar with Linux style OS, it should be pretty easy to work with. Setting up storage comes with a little bit of a learning curve, but it’s not too bad. This SAN/NAS OS is polished, performant, and extensible. If you’re not planning on using SMB or Samba, you can most certainly use NFS, or iSCSI if that’s your thing.

  • talkingpumpkin@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    If it’s for backup, zfs and btrfs can send incremental diffs quite efficiently (but of course you’ll have to use those on both ends).

    Otherwise, both NFS and SMB are certainly viable.

    I tried both but TBH I ended up just using SSHFS because I don’t care about becoming and NFS/SMB admin.

    NFS and SMB are easy enough to setup, but then when you try to do user-level authentication… they aren’t as easy anymore.

    Since I’m already managing SSH keys all over my machines, I feel like SSHFS makes much more sense for me.

  • 3dcadmin@lemmy.relayeasy.com
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    3 months ago

    I still have to use SAMBA as Win 11 hates NFS with a passion and we have Win 11 boxes here supplied as work machines so no changing. Also wifeys gaming rig is Windows as she don’t want to mess around getting stuff to work…
    But hey - for everything else it is NFS with all of its weirdness, but it just works a bit better than SMB

    • MudMan@fedia.io
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      3 months ago

      My Windows machines seem to be just fine with the couple of NFS shares I use for easier cross-platform mounting on boot. It comes at the cost of some security, though, so I use it to share unimportant stuff I want to mount very freely, like some media libraries. I use SMB for the rest.

      I’m curious, what’s the issue with NFS on Windows for you?

      • 3dcadmin@lemmy.relayeasy.com
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        3 months ago

        Oh it just doesn’t like it as much as SMB… has work mandated VPN on it for starters! I use a truenas box for most of the backups etc. and I just share the same dataset via SMB and NFS and locally only, so it is sorted, but NFS on the Win 11 box is just way flakier and drops often

  • Frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    3 months ago

    Everyone forgets about WebDAV.

    It’s a little jank, but it does work on Windows. If you copy a file in, it doesn’t show up in the file manager until you refresh. But it works.

    It’s also multithreaded, which isn’t the case for SMB. This is especially good if you host it on SSDs.

  • graycube@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    I’d use an s3 bucket with s3fs. Since you want to host it yourself, Minio is the open-source tool to use instead of s3.

  • Max-P@lemmy.max-p.me
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    3 months ago

    For all its flaws and mess, NFS is still pretty good and used in production.

    I still use NFS to file share to my VMs because it still significantly outperforms virtiofs, and obviously network is a local bridge so latency is non-existent.

    The thing with rsync is that it’s designed to quickly compute the least amount of data transfer to sync over a remote (possibly high latency) link. So when it comes to backups, it’s literally designed to do that easily.

    The only cool new alternative I can think of is, use btrfs or ZFS and btrfs/zfs send | ssh backup btrfs/zfs recv which is the most efficient and reliable way to backup, because the filesystem is aware of exactly what changed and can send exactly that set of changes. And obviously all special attributes are carried over, hardlinks, ACLs, SELinux contexts, etc.

    The problem with backups over any kind of network share is that if you’re gonna use rsync anyway, the latency will be horrible and take forever.

    Of course you can also mix multiple things: rsync laptop to server periodically, then mount the server’s backup directory locally so you can easily browse and access older stuff.

  • Lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    3 months ago

    I use NFS for linking VMs and Docker containers to my file server. Haven’t tried it for desktop usage, but I imagine it would work similarly.

  • renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.net
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    3 months ago

    If you already know NFS and it works for you, why change it? As long as you’re keeping it between Linux machines on the LAN, I see nothing wrong with NFS.

    • Hawke@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Isn’t nfs pretty much completely insecure unless you turn on nfs4 with Kerberos? The fact that that is such a pain in the ass is what keeps me from it. It is fine for read-only though.

      • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        3 months ago

        Would be fine for designated storage networks that use IP whitelists.
        Other than that, you kind of need user specific encryption/segregation (which I beliege Kerberos does?)

      • nesc@lemmy.cafe
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        3 months ago

        It is, but nfsv3 is extremely easy to configure. You need to edit 1 line in 1 file and it’s ready to go.

      • Cousin Mose@lemmy.hogru.ch
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        3 months ago

        If you’ve got Tailscale it’ll build WireGuard tunnels directly over the LAN: I actually do this with Samba for Time Machine backups on macOS.

        Obviously the big bonus is being able to do the same over the internet without the gaping security holes.

        (I used to use split DNS so that my LAN’s router’s DNS server returned the LAN IP, and Tailscale’s DNS server returned the Tailscale IP. But because I’m a privacy geek I decided to make it Tailscale-only.)

  • billwashere@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    NFS is still useful. We use it in production systems now. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

    And if you have a dedicated system for this, I’d look into TrueNAS Scale.

    • CucumberFetish@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      3 months ago

      Truenas Scale works well as long as you don’t want any dockers on it. Once you want to run docker images it is easier to install a VM on Truenas and run the docker from there than it is to try to set up custom “Apps”

        • CucumberFetish@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          3 months ago

          It is doable, but it is a pain if the docker requires any special config like permanent storage. Getting nginx up and running for mTLS was especially annoying

      • Brkdncr@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        NFS works, but http was designed for shitty internet. Keep that in mind. Owncloud or similar might be a good idea.

  • loweffortname@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    3 months ago

    I think a reasonable quorum already said this, but NFS is still good. My only complaint is it isn’t quite as user-mountable as some other systems.

    So…I know you said no SAMBA, but SAMBA 4 really isn’t bad any more. At least, not nearly as shit as it was.

    If you want a easily mountable filesystem for users (e.g. network discovery/etc.) it’s pretty tolerable.

  • irotsoma@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    3 months ago

    NFS is really good inside a LAN, just use 4.x (preferably 4.2) which is quite a bit better than 2.x/3.x. It makes file sharing super easy, does good caching and efficient sync. I use it for almost all of my Docker and Kubernetes clusters to allow files to be hosted on a NAS and sync the files among the cluster. NFS is great at keeping servers on a LAN or tight WAN in sync in near real time.

    What it isn’t is a backup system or a periodic sync application and it’s often when people try to use it that way that they get frustrated. It isn’t going to be as efficient in the cloud if the servers are widely spaced across the internet. Sync things to a central location like a NAS with NFS and then backups or syncs across wider WANs and the internet should be done with other tech that is better with periodic, larger, slower transactions for applications that can tolerate being out of sync for short periods.

    The only real problem I often see in the real world is Windows and Samba (sometimes referred to as CIFS) shares trying to sync the same files as NFS shares because Windows doesn’t support NFS out of the box and so file locking doesn’t work properly. Samba/CIFS has some advantages like user authentication tied to active directory out of the box as well as working out of the box on Windows (although older windows doesn’t support versions of Samba that are secure), so if I need to give a user access to log into a share from within a LAN (or over VPN) from any device to manually pull files, I use that instead. But for my own machines I just set up NFS clients to sync.

    One caveat is if you’re using this for workstations or other devices that frequently reboot and/or need to be used offline from the LAN. Either don’t mount the shares on boot, or take the time to set it up properly. By default I see a lot of people get frustrated that it takes a long time to boot because the mount is set as a prerequisite for completing the boot with the way some guides tell you to set it up. It’s not an NFS issue; it’s more of a grub and systemd (or most equivalents) being a pain to configure properly and boot systems making the default assumption that a mount that’s configured on boot is necessary for the boot to complete.

      • irotsoma@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        3 months ago

        Yeah, it’s easy enough to configure it properly, I have it set up on all of my servers and my laptop to treat it as a network mount, not a local one, and to try to connect on boot, but not require it. But it took me a while to understand what it was doing to even look for a solution. So, hopefully that saves you time. 🙂

  • velxundussa@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    For linux only, lan only shared drive NFS is probably the easiest you’ll get, it’s made for that usecase.

    If you want more of a dropbox/onedrive/google drive experience, Syncthing is really cool too, but that’s a whole other architecture qhere you have an actual copy on all machines.