I saw that a post was made in !main@sh.itjust.works about defederation about a month ago, an admin commented to make a post here to discuss defederation, but the post was never made.

https://maga.place/ is very obviously a small community with no real substance to it, but I saw an antivax post to !science_memes@mander.xyz and was surprised it still exists.

Anyways I don’t really have a lot to say but uh, I recently hit a full year on this great instance 😊 (old account @TriflingToad@sh.itjust.works)

  • Icytrees@sh.itjust.works
    171·
    1 month ago

    Why should users of this instance spend their leisure time with people who not only want to take away their rights, but label themselves as such? A label that tags their user name regardless of what they’re saying.

    Why should we, as users of this instance, ever allow someone who visibly declares their support for hateful politics, to engage with the most vulnerable among us in the first place?

    MAGA policies are killing women. I’m a woman. I see someone calling themselves MAGA and I see someone who supports stripping away my autonomy and letting me die.

    Everyone can join as many instances as they want if they believe defederating from hate speech enthusiasts is creating an echo chamber.

    • Banana@sh.itjust.works
      41·
      1 month ago

      Completely agreed. Also history would dictate that giving literal nazis a space/platform with which they can influence people is a bad fuckin idea. We don’t owe them tolerance and they should be censored because they are a cult and don’t intend on good faith discussion.

      Call me radical, I’ll say hang loose 🤙

  • Sunoc@sh.itjust.works
    172·
    1 month ago

    The post on Science Memes got downvoted into oblivion, which is funny.

    But yeah, we should probably defed these pos.

  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
    133·
    1 month ago

    I haven’t seen any evidence of their users consistently violating rules of other instances, I’ve only seen intolerant communities on their instance. That should not be grounds for defederation, we should only defederate if their instance refuses to deal with reported abuse from their users.

    So I’ll vote no on this. While I very much disagree politically w/ that instance, I don’t think that’s enough to defederate.

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
            74·
            1 month ago

            Bait?

            If we make decisions based on a difference of opinion, we’ll just create a massive echo chamber. To avoid that, defederation needs to be based on actual rules, and I think those rules should center around moderation. Regardless of the other instance’s views, if their moderation keeps up with reports, we should stay federated. I don’t know if that’s the case, hence the ask for evidence.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
                65·
                1 month ago

                As long as they keep their opinions in whatever community they choose and don’t force it down anyone’s throat, I’m fine with it existing. I’d rather have ugly opinions openly debated instead of festering in the background where others get sucked in and we get a pathway to extremism. It’s pretty easy to just block the odd community that pops up all you never see it again.

                Debate them or ignore them, but completely blocking them just kneecaps this burgeoning platform. Nobody is going to join if the standard is “only leftists that meet this litmus test”.

                Obviously you can vote however you choose, I personally prefer to lean on the side of allowing content vs blocking it outright, at least until they refuse to obey our rules when in our communities.

                • nao@sh.itjust.works
                  52·
                  1 month ago

                  You’re making a valid point, on the other hand

                  Nobody is going to join if the standard is “only leftists that meet this litmus test”.

                  What if the standard was not “only leftists” but “everyone but the far-right”? They are allowed on most (?) major platforms these days, and it hasn’t helped them become better places.

  • matlag@sh.itjust.works
    91·
    1 month ago

    Defederate!

    Being “MAGA” is not associated with conservatism, it’s claiming your support for a openly fascist president at war with his a part of his own people. MAGA is not a political view, it’s an aggregate of hate against pretty much all minorities: immigrants, LGBTQ, muslims,…

    Here I’m going to point:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini’s_law It takes much more energy to prove an “alternative fact” as wrong than to dump it in a post.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance If you tolerate the intolerant, you enable intolerance.

    Don’t we have minorities on this instance? Are we really advocating for a constructive dialogue between groups of people who just want to exist and people who wish these other groups could be exterminated?

  • meep_launcher@sh.itjust.works
    65·
    1 month ago

    Personally I think that we deserve the respect to make our own decisions on this issue. Defederation should be reserved for situations where actual laws are broken that would jeopardize the existence of this instance or even Lemmy as a whole.

    As a former mod on a larger subreddit and then a mod on a decent lemmy community, and now a sad mod trying to pick up the pieces (RIP lemm.ee), I’ve seen how hate can be pervasive in most every sphere. If we start locking things down because we want a hate free Internet, well… We won’t have much of an Internet anymore.

    My modding style was always the “let 'em cook” method. Unless doxxing, impersonation of a mod, spam, bots, and the like are happening, the community would dogpile the user, and frankly as a bystander seeing coherent arguments against hate was more convincing than just censoring it all together.

    • emmy67@lemmy.world
      205·
      1 month ago

      This is the logic that keeps them and their hateful ideas in the community.

      Let them go live in their own bubble.

      Locking them out of the broader community is the right choice

  • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
    5·
    1 month ago

    Let MAGAs read and engage with reasonable content as long as possible so long as they aren’t dickheads. You never know when someone will say something that makes them rethink their position.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
      21·
      1 month ago

      Yup, my mind was changed around the time I found Reddit and was exposed to new ideas. Before that point, I considered myself conservative because I thought they actually wanted smaller government, but then I found I’m closer to libertarian, specifically Penn Jillette’s flavor, and found communities on Reddit to that extent. Since then, I’ve probably voted more Democrat than Republican in my red state, at least for contested offices.

      We need more discussion across political lines, not less.

      • harmbugler@piefed.socialEnglish
        1·
        1 month ago

        If they are coming in good faith, willing to discuss and empathise, engagement is good and everyone can learn from each other. If it’s in bad faith, then block or mock.

          • matlag@sh.itjust.works
            22·
            28 days ago

            You know, for a lot of us, the title MAGA is just as good as Fascist.

            They could have called themselves “conservatives”, “right-wingers” etc. But they chose “MAGA”, the fascist’s branch of the GOP.

            I don’t need to engage with them to figure anything more than I would engage a nazi.place or fascist.place.

          • Jax@sh.itjust.works
            21·
            1 month ago

            I can go ahead and shut you all down now, there’s plenty of evidence suggesting that this instance is a Russian propaganda outlet.

            Others have explained in more detail above. Nothing that comes from this instance is in good faith.

            • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
              11·
              1 month ago

              I can go ahead and shut you all down now, there’s plenty of evidence suggesting that this instance is a Russian propaganda outlet.

              Others have explained in more detail above. Nothing that comes from this instance is in good faith.

              Are you about this comment where they’re claiming the admin self identifies as Russian?

              I don’t think that’s sufficient. Not all Russians work for or even agree with the Russian government, and a lot of Russians live outside of Russia. I grew up in the PNW and there were a lot of Russians in my school. That IP address seems to be in the US, so there’s a decent chance the admin lives in the US.

              If them claiming to be Russian is enough to label them a Russian propagandist, I guess the Japanese internment program was justifiable too.

  • poke@sh.itjust.works
    7·
    1 month ago

    I would like the option to vote to defer to the moderators. Reason being while I think it is valid to keep their community exposed to outside, less supportive, takes on their ideology, I also understand that the community has potential to be a particularly toxic and hostile one, so I understand if our moderators (who I am very appreciative of) don’t want to take on the task of keeping them in check on this community.

    Also, those of you upvoting and downvoting votes are wild.

  • Tuukka R@piefed.eeEnglish
    3·
    1 month ago

    Come on, isn’t maga.place a Russian information operation? It’s not founded by MAGA people, but by a foreign power whose goal is to pose as MAGAts in order to expand the gap within USA’s population.

    • Banana@sh.itjust.works
      21·
      1 month ago

      I’ve literally never gone on that instance and have blocked it for obvious reasons, but I’m curious where you got this information from. Like how do you know this, or is it speculation? Or is this a joke that went over my head?

      • Tuukka R@piefed.eeEnglish
        5·
        1 month ago

        Well, its admin is Russian and joined Lemmy around when the Russia was cranking up its troll efforts in 2023. Or, here he at least claims that he is Russian: https://lemmy.world/post/76070 .

        Also, the letter “Z” is used in the Russia in the same meaning as the swastika was used in Nazi Germany. No Russian would call himself “ArtemZ” in year 2023 without meaning that he is proud of Putin. And if you are a big fan of MAGA-ism, why do you choose a nickname that promotes Putin instead of one that promotes Trump?

        You can also just read what he has been writing with his previous accounts. And how he first was talking good about the Russia and then bad. Depending on what he figured would work best for MAGAts.

    • atzanteol@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      414·
      1 month ago

      And keep your own echo-chamber? I’m very disappointed in this community… I haven’t come across any posts from that community but their front page looks no worse than news@lemmy.ml just with a different slant. They don’t even have any comments so the community must be tiny.

      • Galactose@sopuli.xyz
        53·
        25 days ago

        Lemmy.ml is still 10 times better (Even with all it’s flaws) than the misanthropic filth that is MAGA. The term you’re looking for is Discourse Hygiene