Hey all. Getting right to it:
Last November, a majority of my wife’s family voted trump. I immediately made known my disgust and that I had no interest in maintaining relationships with any of them. My wife is equally appalled, but family is important to her and she chooses to compartmentalise it for the sake of their relationships. That’s her call. Typically, her mother comes to stay at our house for an extended period as we live far away, and this year I tolerated her being here for the sake of my wife.
But now, thinking about the next visit and how bad things have gotten, I can’t even stand the thought of having her in my house, let alone being in the same room as her. I really don’t want her here at all, but I will again tolerate her for my wife’s sake. However I think it’s likely that I will make myself pretty scarce during that time.
So the ethics question is - given that I expressed my distaste after the election but still remained cordial, is it ok, ethically speaking, to become more resentful as the consequences of their actions become more apparent? Or, given that what has happened since is pretty much out of everyone’s hands, am I locked in to the level of hostility I showed immediately after?
I guess the distilled version is - a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?
Thanks for your thoughts!
Edit to Clarify - My mother in law is not MAGA and I don’t think she’s enjoying any of it. She thinks we can “just not talk about it” and everything will be fine. However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can’t or won’t say why. Thanks for the responses so far and I’ll try to respond, but I’m about to start work shortly.
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However she has become more racist and judgemental (anti-trans etc) in recent years. Hates Joe Biden and Kamal Harris but can’t or won’t say why.
I’m gonna guess that it’s because she watches Fox “News”, and that she can’t say why she hates Biden and Harris. She’s simply heard so much anti-Democrat rhetoric that she’s parroting it.
Ethically, the choice seems easy. While specific events may be unpredictable, the themes of hatred and authoritarianism were obvious to anyone who was genuinely paying attention during the campaign. They knowingly voted for a complete piece of shit. They voted for someone who had tried to overthrow the government when things didn’t go his way. He had already been convicted of bribery and sexual assault before the election even took place. The man is simply unfit for office.
Your level of resentment is by no means “locked in”. You have every right to be angry.
The best thing you can do is communicate. Talk with your wife. Show her your post. Don’t keep your resentment bottled up - that’s not healthy. Hopefully, the two of you can come to a solution that doesn’t harm your marriage. If her family doesn’t like it, too bad. Through their (deliberate?) ignorance, they helped create this problem in the first place.
Excellent reponse, and sounds a lot like one side of my internal debate. On the one hand, since we moved away the only family she’s got left are welded-on republicans. But on the other, she’s been around for the last decade, and not knowing what she was voting for has to include some portion of wilfull ignorance. My wife knows how I feel, because she feels the same. She’s just very conflicted because she’s always been incredibly close with her mother, and severing family ties isn’t something she would ever consider possible. I intend to spend a lot of time in my home office during the next visit, and my wife knows that now.
Thank you for the compliment. Your marriage is my primary concern. I hope things work out as well as possible!
It’s your and your wife’s home. So your rules apply. Make that agreement with your wife beforehand. So there are no fights afterwards.
Things like;
- She must not address you. Basically act as if the other person does not exist.
- The visit will be as short as reasonably possible. For longer bouts with her daughter, your wife can visit her mother.
- She must be humble and accept the extreme difference in views.
She must not address you. Basically act as if the other person does not exist.
The MIL has already offered to not engage in politics, take her up on the offer. Batting away the olive branch just comes off as childish.
That’s not what olive branch means.
Then explain it.
What do you think "olive branch” means in this situation?
It means nothing in that situation. She’s not giving anything, she’s demanding not to be challenged.
With my ex MIL I stay friendly because she’s great in so many ways, and just act completely ignorant when she says something awful, for example:
ExMIL: I’m looking for a church but can’t find one that is Christian enough.
Me: Oh, I understand. So many are just so worldly now and not at all Christ like, they don’t welcome the stranger, they do that prosperity gospel nonsense, culture war bullshit instead of good works. That makes sense.
ExMIL: oh I meant they are too progressive, too loosey goosey (Paraphrasing)
Me: Huh?
Or
ExMIL: I don’t understand this trans nonsense.
Me: I know, right? Who gives a fuck what someone else says they are! You say you are a boy, you are a boy, it doesn’t have any effect on anyone else, I don’t understand the drama around it, at all.
Basically whenever I get a chance I just intentionally misinterpret it like there is no possibility that she meant that, because nobody could possibly mean that.
I’ve tried this. It usually ends up with them thinking you’re kinda dumb, which is ironic. But they almost never get the point and make the connection either way.
For your spouses sake, just stfu and dont engage with her regarding politics. Ask your spouse how she wants you to be, since the mother-in-law visiting is performative for you anyways, and you love your spouse more than you are obligated to tolerate your MIL.
I’ve been gently easing the missus into the idea that I’m not going to be hanging out with her mother if she visits again. I can tell she’s conflicted, because on the one hand she’s always been exceptionally close with her, but on the other she’s just as disgusted as I am. I think we’d both be relieved if she just doesn’t visit anymore, which seems like a possibility.
Agree. I scrolled down in comments thinking I’m going to get downvoted for saying what I think. OP needs to chill. OP, is Trump going to be allowed to make you want to drive a wedge between your wife and her mother? Compartmentalise. Your wife’s family is not solely responsible for what Trump has done.
I love podcasts and I will always recommend from there. This is a fantastic episode from a fantastic series… please have a listen:
You Are Not So Smart: 306 - I Never Thought of it That Way - Mónica Guzmán (rebroadcast) - How to have more productive conversations in a highly partisan, polarized, and politicized world
You could probably make the case that I need to chill, but you seem to be making a few incorrect assumptions. I have no intention of interacting with my mother in law any more than absolutely necessary, and the sole reason she may be coming to visit ever again is because I don’t want to drive a wedge between my wife and her mother. I also don’t hold my wife’s family responsible, but by voting for him last November they all became part of the trump crowd who I collectively blame. No more, no less.
I’m definitely going to listen to that podcast. Thanks!
I think any response (short of something like physical assault) is probably ethical. Think about your mental health and your wife’s opinion on it too.
I hate my in-laws for similar reasons. (My wife dislikes them too.) We all have a very spoken no politics rule when we visit. This makes family gatherings more tolerable. We only see them maybe 4 or 5 times a year. We’ve definitely seen them less as things got worse politically. Last year we even skipped Thanksgiving with them.
Id just talk about it being disgusting like they didn’t vote for it. ‘Other it’ around them and try not to put it like you’re attacking them. I’d say, for the sake of your family connection by way of your wife, you have to stomach some degree of it. Engendering division only helps the goblins like Miller and Bannon.
I’m talking as someone who’s mother and father voted for Brexit instead of trump, and I refuse to act like it hasn’t been a gigantic fucking mess.
You can forgive her and feel compassion for her for being misled and confused, but not allow speech that violates your own ethics in your own home. Bonus - no more resentment on your end, which is healthier for you, personally, regardless of what she chooses to do with her own life.
This is exactly how I conduct myself with my maga mother in law. Any bigoted shit in front of my daughter gets publicly squashed and any political topics are quickly dealt with and put in its place. She lives a life of ignorance, dont be mad, feel bad.
Nazism isn’t really an ideology I can tolerate
I am of the opinion that not discussing these things is an analog to the Paradox of Tolerance, if not being exactly what the Paradox is about. If we don’t discuss the hatefulness, then the hateful think they are doing fine.
Attacking only causes people to “dig in”. Passive aggressive actions will make you look weak.
Being cordial while also calling out instances of hate as they occur would likely be fine. Be strong and confident, but keep corrections short and to the point (Imagine correctly a 5 year old. Understanding and care, not anger, and keep things in reality.) “That didn’t happen.”, “Why would a criminal say that?”, “Toddlers visiting basketball plays, will reduce the average height, but no one gets shorter or taller.”
That’s how I intend to approach it, during the times when I’m unable to just not be around her.
Besides voting for Trump, is there anything else problematic with her behavior? Because, you know, everyone can make a mistake, and being a family is about doing your best to accept people regardless of their flaws.
You say she’s not MAGA, so is it her forcing you into unwanted political conversations or is it the other way around? Because if it’s you who’s constantly pressuring her on his this issue, it kinda isn’t fair for you to complain about it.
I’m in a similar situation but it’s my mother (and other relatives), not my wife’s. A big part of the problem for me is they keep making the same fucking mistake and just want to pretend it never happened when the consequences arrive. One mistake is forgivable, but she’s done it three times now. If I let it slide, she’ll just keep making the same mistake, so yeah I’m the one pressuring her on this issue.
She’s done what three times now? Vote for Trump?
It’s neither, she prefers to not address it at all. I don’t, but I think that’s too close to giving her a pass. I’ve already left the handling of her family to my wife, they all know where I stand. I was more curious about the ethics, from a purely academic standpoint, of me continuing to get angrier at these people over the consequences of a choice they made almost a year ago.
You married your wife because you love her. Her mother-in-law came as a package deal. You can’t have one without the other, because she is the one who raised her. Perhaps she did make the wrong choice a year ago, but you can’t keep holding it against her. You don’t have to agree with her views, you just have to try to accept her regardless, until she softens up on her stance.
Hate is it not driven out by hate. It’s only driven out by Love.
Divorce your wife, hit the gym, get a tan, do laundry. Please use a better post title next time.
I would make myself scarce and hard to find
That’s the plan! 😜
Dude please please please don’t let Trump ruin your marriage. Not allowing your MIL to stay for her annual visit when your wife wants her to is gonna be a big big problem
It’s not ruining your marriage to insist that treason, racism, intolerance, pedophilia, etc. isn’t acceptable in your home. If your wife chooses that over her marriage, then you are better off. She can live with her MAGA mother for the rest of her life.
Disclaimer: I’m not American so will never understand your culture towards politics as well.
I don’t think it’s fair to point at every bad thing Trump has done so far and say that’s the fault of your MIL for voting for Trump. The way I see it as a non-American, Trump did say he was going to be a racist xenophobic piece of shit on his election campaign, but the media heavily downplayed this, and Trump still tricked and lied to everyone. Politics is weird like that: you can theoretically campaign on one thing but then throw everything out and do the opposite once you get elected.
Hating Kamala and Biden is a fair opinion to hold as well. I consider a vote for them as picking the lesser of the 2 evils, rather than voting on what’s best for America, because both parties seemed awful to me (a non-American).
I think it’s important that you try to at least understand and empathise with why your MIL voted Trump in the first place. You were very light on those details in your post, which I suspect is because you’re very quick to judge someone based on who they vote for.
Maybe she really hated one policy from the democrats so voted for Trump? Maybe she bought all the lies Trump told during his campaign and regrets her vote strongly? Maybe she’s a single-issue person who voted for Trump because of one policy and ignored everything else?
I don’t really appreciate the way this comment equivocates the openly racist adjudicated rapist accused pedophile Trump with Biden and Harris.
I don’t think this is an ethics question, you’re asking whether resentment builds or fades over time and the answer will be very specific to each person and case. That being said there’s one thing I would like to point out:
a person does X, I express disapproval. Is it ethical to express MORE disapproval as additional unforeseen consequences of X become apparent?
Those weren’t unforseen, that’s the worst part for me, they were clearly foreseen, foretold and warned about, and I could potentially be persuaded to believe people were unaware of that the first time around, but by the second time you are obviously okay with all of it.
I’m being a little generous with that. I agree that they knew he was a piece of shit, but I think a lot of them thought he’d just hurt the people they look down on and not them.
Then fuck em, they’re MAGAts.
Yeah and that’s almost worse isn’t it?
It really is as far as I’m concerned. I told her dring the last visit that she voted to hurt other people because she thought it would be good for her, and that’s how I still see it. trump promised to do harm, even his supporters knew that.
