You must log in or register to comment.
Deshittification
“No enshitification” is the new top tier marketing strategy.
Although intense marketing is a sign of enshittification 🤔 Perhaps looking at the ownership structures would almost be a better startegy. AFAIK enshittification predominantely affects publicly traded corpos.
deleted by creator
It looks like they’re available, but labeled under “cheap.” They seem to be just dials. I’m sure a spyware version has crept into the list though. https://www.popularmechanics.com/home/g38757143/best-cheap-washing-machines/
None of those are particularly long-lasting, and definitely not built well. 4 out of 5 of their “best” are all whirlpool family appliances, which have been getting so cheaply built in the last few years that they feel flimsy. The list is basically an ad for whirlpool.
it is. these lists are likely pay for play and run by a pr firm in tandem with the brands’ pr teams
Are the spyware ones long lasting? They’re much harder to fix as well. You might be right about the ads, so here’s more:
https://www.amazon.com/Pataku-Portable-Washing-Function-Apartment/dp/B0C7V5B59G?
https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-WA40A3005WPR-White-Washer-Dryer/dp/B0BDMQNBCJ?
Disclaimer: this is very US centric information.
I have yet to see laundry that has to be connected to internet to work - there are several that can be connected, but no one can really answer why a consumer would want to (even the mfr reps kinda just stutter and mumble about vague “convenience” features). I wouldn’t say laundry is heavily spying on us… yet…
I wouldn’t buy whirlpool family because it all feels incredibly cheap and breaks easy. They have service techs almost everywhere, but their part supply is garbage so you are often waiting on parts. LG service is nearly non-existent. If you live in a big city they might have one or two techs that they can send out, but that’s it. They are better on parts, but they very rarely admit the appliance is FUBAR and replace it.
Speed Queen makes absolute units. Like, you could probably drop it down a flight of stairs and then hook it up and run a cycle. BUT, they come with downsides - mainly price point and capacity, but they are also very hard on clothes, and the TR series wash cycle sucks because the agitator is fixed to the tub (this design has been tried so many times and sucks every time) - the TC wash cycle is fine.
Samsung units are very similar to LG units, but their service is generally better - much more parts in stock in the US already so fixing it when it breaks is usually pretty quick. They don’t have a great service network, but they are quick to admit they can’t get a tech out and just offer replacements.
Frigidaire/Electrolux units are “fine”. They generally also have service everywhere and reasonably part supply chains, but they aren’t built fool-proof.
Cheap GE units are probably the place to be for cheap units, they aren’t built as cheaply as the whirlpool family typically, service is generally decent. They still aren’t build to last more than 7-10-ish years. Most appliance companies in the US realized their average customer was buying new every 5-7 years anyway due to moving or remodeling. That meant building them to last considerably longer than that means they are building them to be used by the second hand market. Similar to the gaming industry in the last several years, they don’t want that because they don’t make money on that. Save money during production, make a worse product, more sales/profit.
I feel like this post is already too long… I’ve been working with appliances both repairs and sales for about 12 years now. If people have questions I’m happy to answer :P
Great info, thanks.
who the hell pays $1000 for an appliance?
They’re top pick is only $500
Who the hell pays $500 for an appliance?
People who want it to last.
That’s a large part of why “things aren’t built the way they used to,” is wrong. People don’t want to pay a lot for appliances now, so they get built with cheap parts to meet that price point.
There were cheap garbage appliances in the old days too.
That’s fair. I do suspect those live-forever refridgerators probably did cost a bomb way back when
Yeah, those suckers were the equivalent of like $2k today.
But even cheap appliances can last years if repaired. Washers and dryers are pretty simple to fix (electric only), and it’s cheaper than you might think for common issues. Lid switch replacements, drum rollers, heating elements, sensors, etc. run like a max of $50, and you can always find a YouTube video of someone replacing the part in the exact model you own.
Its not easy to find durable/high quality cheap machines.
With TVs, which have had a smart version for a longer time than appliances, the dumb, spyware-less versions have actually become somewhat more expensive. Nothing stopping other devices from going the same way.
Like No Name does for groceries.
Does ordinary skincare count too?
This kind of anti-enshittification marketing is starting to gain traction I think.
A big part of Valve’s launch was saying stuff like “of course you can run whatever you want on it, it’s yours!”
thats just the first step of enshittification!
Unshittyify and Reshittify. Back and forth forever ))<> ((
So if that happens install a different distro.
I think you’re being down voted because of Valve being used as the example and they have been seen as the exception to the rule.
Your point, though, is valid.
I’ve been thinking about this for a while now, how I just want a basic bitch electric car. No centre console, no futuristic screens, no sensors, no cameras. Give me a normal fucking car with dials, a speedo, some padles on the steering wheel to adjust power output to replace gears and no driver assist. Sell it to me for cheap and let me drive my car. That’s all I want.
some padles on the steering wheel to adjust power output to replace gears
What? The foot pedal adjusts power. You don’t need a replacement for gears.
I would very much like a manner to manually adjust how hard the regenerative coasting works, which would sort of be a replacement for gears. If I’m going down a steep hill I’d like to be able to adjust the regen to maximize energy recovery while also managing vehicle speed.
I recently bought an ebike that has peddle assist settings of 1-5. With 1 being lowest and 5 being maximum. These settings essentially act like gears setting the maximum motor power.
In crowded areas I set the speed to 1 so the bike can’t exceed 15kph, on open roads I set the speed to 5 which is unlimited. I would definitely want this in a car.
Interesting. A car with peddle assist. I know that’s not what you meant, but that’s where my head went.
Right? Like why isn’t there the ability for me to dictate power output from the motor rather than simply being on or off with speed being regulated via “things”, breaks, accelerator, sensors, etc.
No, I was thinking about bike pedals in a car as an auxiliary power input.
Just a goofy thought.
Hahahaha Fred Flintstoning up on here
I haven’t seen speedometer shortened to speedo before. I was wondering why you wanted to get a speedo (like swimwear) along with the rest of your normal car accessories.
Little from column A, little from column B
You can join me with outsized expectations for the Slate pickup that will inevitably be dashed.
Its very hard to sell a product based on it being “reliable” and “good quality”. This is because everyone fucking lies in their marketing about those exact qualities and its inevitable that you will get breakdowns and your customers will complain about those breakdowns and destroy your reputation.
Everything is fake now. Its just a matter of using marketing to tell the customer your product is exactly what they want.
There’s a huge demand from consumers for that. Just not from investors.
There’s a huge one-time demand from consumers. But, if it’s an amazing device that never needs repairs (or that can easily be repaired by the consumer) and it has no bells and whistles, that’s a problem: there’s no repeat business.
Who cares?
The people running the business, presumably. Generally people don’t want to go out of business because they can’t find any customers.
Once you’ve supplied everyone with it, figure out how to keep a buffer stock and move onto the next product. By the time you’ve sold every viable customer a washing machine, vacuum cleaner, fridge, freezer, mixer, cooker, dryer (whatever) they’d be fine, new stock still needs to be sold eventually so keep a trickle coming. Replacement parts etc.
Biggest issue is it’s going to be expensive - will people pay?
That sounds like a difficult way to run a business.
It’s how businesses were run for literally hundreds of years.
Not true at all. Businesses didn’t move onto the next product, they specialized, making the exact same thing year after year. Because manufacturing tolerances weren’t great, things would need repairs and replacement, so there was repeat business. Nobody kept a buffer stock and moved onto the next product.
But does it have AI?
Nothing has Ai. Everything that does refuses to explain what their use of that term means. It’s like buying the name brand cereal over the generic because someone slapped an “asbestos free” sticker on it.
My washing machine and dryer likes to throw about AI. The model came out around or just before the current LLM craze started, and I’m guessing they wanted to capitalise on the buzzword.
AI in the case of my washing machine means that it keeps track of the time and day of week, and what washing programmes I tend to run within a certain timeframe. It then suggests that programme when you turn it on. For the dryer, AI means “suggest the programme matching what the washer just washed.”
Lately the washer has taken to flash “AI Cycle Complete” on its stupid little screen whenever it completes a wash, even if I keyed in every single setting myself. Such AI.
Lately the washer has taken to flash “AI Cycle Complete”
Lately? Does that mean your washer is getting some kind of regular firmware updates? Why? In case “laundry” changes?
Investors need not be shareholders, to be fair.
There’s a huge demand from consumers for that.
Is that actually true, though?
Very likely. Why not?
Because consumers have shown to prefer features over reliability:
French Door refrigerators are the most popular and most complex design.
Built in ice makers are popular but also complex and prone to failure due to physics.
They still sell very basic refrigerators and washer/dryers. But these don’t sell as well as more feature rich models.
My recent experience buying such is that it is very very hard to find basic but quality models. If you’ve had a water dispenser or ice maker once, you realize how awful they are. They take up massive amounts of fridge and freezer space and need expensive filters every 3 months and break as soon as the short warranty is over. But if you want double door and bottom freezer you pretty much have to buy the crap extras as well.
I don’t think complex design is the opposite of “just” it’s more that the refrigerator is just a kitchen refrigerator that doesn’t have weird proprietary temperature management system, and easily accessible replacement parts. It’s not also a built in tablet for example
But are there simple fridges that don’t look like rental apt fridges? If there was a nice simple fridge with a big bottom freezer, in stainless, I bet it’d sell. Tho water dispensers and ice makers are damn convenient when they do work.
“all the companies are dumb and refuse to earn money this simple way that I discovered in a showerthought”
Half of people on lemmy, facebook, reddit, twitter…
Ok, how about I would have bought one for a couple houses I’ve renovated?
In my albeit anecdotal experience, these ‘very basic’ appliances suffer their own variant of faults. They take no modern design cues; they are more prone to reliability issues from bargain bin components; or they somehow cost only slightly less than their fancy feature rich counterparts.
Just because I don’t want off-white equipment in my kitchen, I shouldn’t have to buy an ‘AI’ oven. But the companies want to know when and what I’m cooking so when I go to the grocery in the middle of dinner prep, the AI price labels can adjust a bit higher because they know I need an ingredient right now for a meal I’ve already started making.
The variant of fault these normal appliances have aren’t truly a fault. It’s intentionally made to be less appealing, less reliable, and more expensive than it should be, so when we’re looking at a white oven in the store for $800, we’ll opt instead for the $1,000 Alexa powered stainless steel double range that’s sitting right next to it.
Oh and if you’re in a spot and need to finance your new appliance, sorry but our financing isn’t available for the budget tier.
This comment kind of went off the rails, didn’t it.
People would likely want products with new features and reliability.
But what we actually have on the market is products with new features that are mostly unreliable, and slightly cheaper products with less features that are similarly or more unreliable. Our products are clearly regressing in quality even if the existence of luxury features or designs are rising.
We are in a hostile relationship economically where almost every manufacturer is engaging in planned obsolescence (instead of using resources appropriately and making the products we want which also last).
Corporations want us to keep buying - they are hyper-focused on perpetuating that reality.
Yes. Cars especially right now.
I’m just going to run my car until it no longer functions because I can’t be doing with all of these crappy infotainment systems. My car has a non-functional radio and that’s it, it’s so old it has headlights that don’t even blind people, and buttons to control the AC.
I’ll invest in this guy today.
Just Uncomplicated Socialist Tech
We need him
Probably better than my idea of just starting to wash my clothes in a bucket
these exist, see speed queen
the cost is going to be higher, though, because “smart” widgets can offset their initial costs through the projeted sale of the data harvested over the life of the widget
most people being ignorant to this and to the inevitable issues with corporate-built “smart” widget infrastructure, the cheapest option will generally be the most popular
my inner doctorow says that the twiddlers did this on purpose to undermine competition, especially considering the attempts to keep those widgets from being liberated
I think the price difference has more to do with scale than it does data. The main reason good, simple products can’t be cheaper is because the small companies who make them can’t put in the same gigantic bulk orders of raw materials, nor do they have the specialized manufacturing processes or assembly lines.
The data is damn near an afterthought. Putting a touchscreen on a fridge is a great way to pretend a piece of shit is a premium product. If they can scrape your data too, then for sure they’ll go for it, but the main reason the screen is on there is because most people are still buying that shit.
The same thing is happening with cars. Good luck trying to get a new unconnected vehicle, and good luck to the company who plans to sell them.
ding ding ding
there can be no (valid) competition against capitalistic cronyism.
I just want everything with a heating element to use a heat pump instead. Electric heating elements are so horribly inefficient and wasteful in comparison.
I have a ventless heat pump combo washer/dryer. It takes up half the space that two machines would, plugs into a regular 110V outlet, gets HOT (way hotter than I expected a heat pump has any right to achieve), drains all its drying water into the drain, vents none of my indoor air outside, doesn’t require changing laundry from one machine to the other. Practically and mechanically it seems brilliant and I can’t imagine why I would ever buy a traditional machine ever again. Except…
It’s chock full of horrible apps and shit that I’ll never use. It’s way too “smart”, and those “smarts” are not there for my benefit. After a month or two it finally gave up trying to pester me to connect it to a network and install the app, which I’ll never, ever do. It’s never going to see an update or new firmware if I can help it, but I’m afraid that if/when it ever breaks, I’ll have no choice. I know it’s going to do things like eventually refuse to work until the computer has been “updated” to be “compatible” with new parts. And it’s not even just that it’s going to be expensive. It’s that I don’t trust it, and I don’t trust it to remain functional in the future, even if there are parts, that they won’t let me install the parts, or will require me to agree to play by their “rules” before I can.
Right to repair needs to be a thing, and people need to be able to break the ridiculous amount of both legal and practical control these manufacturers have over their devices after they’ve left the factory. We cannot and should not trust the manufacturers to support it. We need to allow independent repair.
What brand is it? I want a heat pump dryer, but I don’t like “smart” stuff.
GE Profile PFQ97HSPVDS. Not a sponsor, and not even a recommendation. It feels icky even admitting it. The only reason I am mentioning it at all is because I did manage to get it to (eventually) stop aggravating me about installing the app and connecting it to wifi and now it just works without annoyance as it should have from day one, and I recognize the possibility of having access to that feature alone may be valuable to someone. I can’t guarantee the one you buy now will even act the same way, as these things can be and are updated without notice.
I found some third-party home assistant stuff for GE smart home products on github if that’s important to you, but I haven’t even tested it for this as it still involves the appliance phoning home and everything is still gatekept through GE’s website and like I said I refuse to ever let this thing touch any form of internet connection or wireless.
Got it! I saw a Samsung one the other week, so that’s why I was curious. I still want a heatpump dryer, just a better one that doesn’t beg for clicks.
I thought electric heaters were 100% efficient? All the electricity you put into it becomes heat yeah?
Yeah my heat pump is something like 2000% efficient. It can cheat because it doesn’t convert electricity into heat, it uses electricity to move heat from the outside to the inside (or vice versa).
So, 1 kwh electric energy to an electric heater produces 1 kwh of heating energy.
So to give you an idea how a heatpump would do: looking at my heat pump’s data registers right now, it says it used 3.6 kwh electric energy in the last hour to produce 12.7 kwh heating energy (air to water).Yea but heat pumps have a coefficient of performance of greater than 1 cause you’re moving heat instead of generating it.
Heat pumps require a line to the outdoors, which may not be possible to create for existing use cases.
Also, if I recall, hot water heaters that use heat pumps can’t actually get hot enough to completely heat the water and rely on electricity a bit. Therefore, I’m not sure everything with a heating element (ie. stovetop, oven, espresso machine, etc.) would work for that.
Edit: for those downvoting, please link me where I can buy a heat pump oven and stovetop. Would really like to install one.
Incorrect, no connection to outdoors is required for these appliances. In the case of the ventless combo, it literally hooks up to nothing other than the standard washing machine hookup. 1 normal 15 amp power outlet, 1 hot water hose, 1 cold water hose, 1 drain hose. No dryer vents, no other tubes or hoses, no drilling or cutting, no changes at all required. It is literally a drop-in replacement for any washer, but it also dries, with a heat pump, powered from the same circuit the washer uses and the same drain the washer uses.
Also, let me blow your mind a little bit: theoretically, the cold water main running to your house contains enough heat energy to completely heat your house all winter on its own. It is cold to us, but thermodynamically it’s a goldmine and you have an extremely generous supply of it. Water represents an enormous reservoir of heat, and you can play some really fun games with latent heat of evaporation and condensation (which is exactly how heat pumps work in the first place). Dehumidifiers add as much or more heat to a room than a space heater does, using a fraction of the electrical power. That’s the power of the heat contained in water. I’m not saying that a heat pump dryer is doing this with your water supply, simply pointing out that once water is in play, it becomes way more of a complex issue than performance figures on paper actually represent.
Obviously, clean drinkable water is also a scarce resource, so using it directly for any form of heating would be wasteful in its own way, but the point is that it would be technically possible. Including water in the discussion adds a lot of really interesting possibilities to the way we manage heat and energy, and we will eventually need to start understanding how much heat we literally throw away down the drain and how wasteful that actually is. And in the process we’ll learn to save some money and maybe even make our lives a bit more convenient.
Are you Alec from Tech. Connections?
Unfortunately not, but I am proud to be compared to him.
I can definitely read your comment in his voice, particularly the “also, let me blow your mind a little bit” part.
Heat pumps absolutely do not need to connect indoors and outdoors, every fridge and freezer is just a heat pump connected to a box.
Ive had a ventless heat pump clothes dryer, about 5 years ago, maybe 6. Technically it made the room it was in slightly colder while it ran, but that heat from my house was just concentrated inside the box and then allowed to escape back into my house.
I also think there have been advances in heat pump technology either with the refrigerant used to transfer the heat or with cascading systems that run multiple loops with different heat capacity so that one loop takes room temp water to “warm” temps and a secondary loop takes the “warm” water to hot.
I think they mean appliances that don’t necessarily heat an area but heat is a function of their purpose.
In the example given, a combo washer dryer, it is not necessary to have a link to the outside it merely uses the ambient air as it’s source of heat, The same is also common among heat pump water heaters.
He’ll be out of business in a years time!
Seriously a great idea though. I’d buy all their stuff.
If you want this today, SpeedQueen has decent models that last forever and are very simple.
The reason is that they will be so durable that you buy one and it’ll be an heirloom for multiple generations.
Since it would make small quantities (at least at the start) and with better materials, I bet it would be also more expensive so maybe it evens out.
I would also buy it, I’m tired of household items that randomly break and the manufacturer doesn’t care.
