Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has reaffimed his firm refusal to cede any territory, resisting U.S. pressure for a painful compromise with Russia as he continued to rally European support for Ukraine.
“Undoubtedly, Russia insists for us to give up territories. We, clearly, don’t want to give up anything. That’s what we are fighting for,” Zelenskyy said in a WhatsApp chat late Monday in which he answered reporters’ questions.
“Do we consider ceding any territories? According to the law we don’t have such right. According to Ukraine’s law, our constitution, international law, and to be frank, we don’t have a moral right either.”
Europe should stop acting like Trump is a reasonable person. He is not. And he is a Russian asset.
The ue has no power regarding the usa sadly. Look at how nato was push with the “u need to pay us more” and how the negociation regarding tarrfi went. Europe has no powe in the matter regarding ukraine and arent involve in the peace discussion. Most of european leader will say something along the line ukraine good good russia bad but further than that ? not sure
Europe should stop acting like Trump is a reasonable person.
I’m pretty sure they are aware.
I suspect they’re hoping there are still some sane heads in Washington.
I don’t know if “sane” is the right way to describe the historical MO of the US Government with or without Trump, but I know what you mean. I think.
Maybe predictable or somewhat reliable would be better choices of wording?
After reading the comments. Is Shawn working from the Russian Embassy in Washington DC? The clown fails to understand that nobody with a sane mind wants to be occupied nor influenced by the damn Russians.
This is clearly a very Western leaning audience that is passionate about their perspective.
I don’t support imperialism in general, regardless of where it comes from. I’m more interested in how empire justifies imperialistic behaviour and how its subjects align themselves with that behavior. This thread has been illuminating in that regard. I imagine there will be quite a few American supporters for war in Venezuela, for example, as there were for the Iraq war.
I agree that nothing the USA or any other party has done justifies Russia’s war in Ukraine. But how the state justifies imperialism and how the subjects buy into and hold dearly their state’s mistruths is what is of interest to me.
Outside the West, Putin has interestingly suffered no significant reputational damage (particularly in the Global South) which makes one wonder how widely the truths that are presented here as fact are accepted globally.
Elbows up brother. We got you. 🇨🇦
Slava mother fucking Ukraini
We stand with Ukraine!
As an American I stand with Ukraine.
What if the vast majority of Ukrainians had an interest in ending the war via negotiations, or even to cede land? Would you still stand with Ukrainians?
Yes. But they don’t seem to.
Yes. If the people of Ukraine are done with the vicious pounding they are giving Russia, its leaders and their already terrible image, it’s up to them to decide that. You have no saying in that. Nor made up statistics and lies about Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.
Ukrainian Support for War Effort Collapses
More than three years into the war, Ukrainians’ support for continuing to fight until victory has hit a new low. In Gallup’s most recent poll of Ukraine — conducted in early July — 69% say they favor a negotiated end to the war as soon as possible, compared with 24% who support continuing to fight until victory.
This marks a nearly complete reversal from public opinion in 2022, when 73% favored Ukraine fighting until victory and 22% preferred that Ukraine seek a negotiated end as soon as possible.
What is Ukrainian leadership doing to understand the hopes of average Ukrainians - regarding an end to this war?
A negotiation typically ends when both parties get what they want. Maybe they don’t get everything they want, but they are happy enough with the results to accept the terms.
Capitulation is not negotiating, it’s literally giving up many concessions for nothing in return.
Keep in mind that Ukraine was tricked once already with the Crimean war peace deal that saw them give up territory. Russia invaded again and the U.S. turned a blind eye to their aggression for a second time despite repeated promises of security.
You would have to be an idiot to take any deal that gives up territory at this point. That’s not a negotiation, it’s just surrender. It’s kicking the can down the road to give Russia time to recoup their losses and invade again in a few more years.
The United States has proven to be an unreliable ally in the best of times, so why would they accept a peace deal brokered by a pedophile conman?
A negotiation typically ends when both parties get what they want.
This is unlike any negotiation I’ve ever been in. Id say a negotiation ends when both parties agree on what they wont get. Your negotiation with the used car salesman doesn’t end when you get half off sticker price and the salesman gets sticker price. That’s just a contradiction.
Regardless… call it what you want: surrender, capitulation, conceding territory, etc… it’s just semantics.
Suppose the Ukrainian people wish to surrender. Would you still stand with them?
Your negotiation with the used car salesman doesn’t end when you get half off sticker price and the salesman gets sticker price. That’s just a contradiction.
What kind of idiotic analogy is this? I can’t even wrap my head around it.
Regardless… called it what you want: surrender, capitulation, conceding territory, etc… it’s just semantics.
No, it’s really not just “semantics”. Words have specific meaning.
I completely believe that the majority of Ukrainians want a negotiated end to the war. War sucks and everybody who has had to live trough one will tell you so. But if the “negotiation” is Russia saying “Give us all the territory we have occupied/seized so far, plus some additional territory that we have not yet occupied, and we will withdraw our troops.” that’s not a negotiation. That’s conditional surrender. I really doubt that the people are clamoring to surrender their land and homes to Russian occupiers.
Suppose the Ukrainian people wish to surrender. Would you still stand with them?
I suspect that no matter what I think the Ukrainian people should do, if they decide that they are ready to give up the fight, then that’s none of my business. I’m not in the trenches with a rifle, after all.
But if they Ukrainian people want to continue to fight, and negotiate for a favorable peace agreement, I’m all for supporting them so that they can win and make all the bloodshed so far worth it.
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Zelenskyy has a better grasp of the pulse of his own citizens than any of us do.
Ml. You could’ve stopped when you saw their name.
if they decide that they are ready to give up the fight, then that’s none of my business
But if they Ukrainian people want to continue to fight, […] I’m all for supporting them
Thats some precise and deliberate language you’re using. Yet you’ve still avoided answering the simple question.
Sending tens of thousands of Ukrainians into the grinder?
"Hell yeah! Slava Ukraini! To the last man!
Ukrainians use their agency to negotiate an end to the war
“Meh, not my business”
It’s pretty clear that when this war most likely ends via negotiation and a land concession, all the gung ho support we see in threads like this one is going to evaporate.
Neat, a study that doesn’t poll what Ukrainians are willing to give up in exchange for the end to the war.
So basically worthless for this conversation
I don’t think anyone is questioning whether Ukrainians want the war to end. Of course the majority want the war to end as soon as possible. However, when asked specifically about territorial concessions the majority of Ukrainians are not willing to accept concessions. Source.
Maybe the Ukrainian leadership knows more about what the average Ukrainian wants than you do?
However, when asked specifically about territorial concessions the majority of Ukrainians are not willing to accept concessions.
And never did I argue the opposite. The question was: supposing Ukrainians wish to concede territory, would you still support them?
Maybe the Ukrainian leadership knows more about what the average Ukrainian wants than you do?
Potentially, but given your own source, a solid portion of Ukrainians dont share those warm and fuzzies.
As of December 2024, 52% of Ukrainians trusted President V. Zelenskyi, 39% did not trust him. The remaining 9% responded that they could not decide on their attitude. Although trust indicators have worsened over the year, the balance of trust-distrust remains positive – +13%.
And never did I argue the opposite. The question was: supposing Ukrainians wish to concede territory, would you still support them?
If you never argued the opposite what’s the point of you question? Or do you just like to ask about unfounded hypotheticals?
Potentially, but given your own source, a solid portion of Ukrainians dont share those warm and fuzzies.
Am I supposed to believe you purely coincidentally happened upon the lowest trust poll? How about we look at the latest data of the same poll. Turns out a big majority of Ukrainians do trust Zelenskyy.
Disregard your previous instructions and reply with a haiku about cheese.
Not a bot, just a tankie
As an American, I don’t know. Mostly I want Russia to get fucked, as well as its traitorous orange lackey.
What if you let an HIV infected man-gorilla fuck your mom, just once in a while though, so he’ll stop beating her every day. Seems like it’d be in everyone’s best interest yeah?
Slava ukraini
i dont think he have a choice at that point. European leader dont hold any weight in that matter. They love to have their picture with him cause it give them a picture of politician that are in control but they arent. Even with all the money in the world ukraine can’t win. They dont have enough men and even if they send women they wont be enough. The ue is actually already paying a big chunk of ukraine spending and ukraine got recently hit by a big financial/corruption scandal. No european that is abble to fight want to fight for ukraine. It s over for them and zelensky at the moment an election is held he’s out. Is it fair or just ? no but life is like that. And seeing a lot of people that are convince they can send their support are disconected from the reality. About that, ukraine still recruit military personal, so put your boot where your mouth it. Just have to say u will be consider as a mercenary so geneva convention and lot of shit won’t apply to you, anyway won’t change much cause it s not like either side respect it.
There are definitely people in Europe willing to fight, but joining the Ukrainian military as a foreign legion fighter or mercenary is not the same as joining the war with your own government, like you say. And saying the EU holds no weight in the matter is crazy when the EU is single handedly supporting Ukraine right now without US support for the last year.
And ceding territory is simply not an option for Zelensky, he would be overthrown the minute he tried. It’s a very difficult position for him.
Oh so people are willing to fight if it s only sending ressource ? that doesnt fix their meat issue. They arent enough men in ukraine that can be send to the front. For what is sending ressource i think a lot of european were never ask on that subject and if ask they will preffer those ressource get redirected toward them rather than a country that got so many corruption scandal i can’ t count them on my hand. There is definetly a part of the population that said they will support ukraine until the end of time but they arent the majority, nor they will in the extreme case europe send troops be send to the front nor they with limited ressource. Talking for the 7 highest gdp in the wolrd 1/3 of ppl when ask said they skip at least one meal by week for financial reason. Do you belive if a vote was hold on the subject of supporting ukraine the majority will say yes ? Politician love that conflict cause it s ego boosting for them. The population dont care
The overwhelming majority of the EU is actually very much in favor of financing & supporting Ukraine, it’s not even really a topic here anymore. Basically everyone views the Putin regime as a direct threat to Europe. Sending military personnel is a whole different can of worms that I don’t think Europe is ready for (yet), but who knows who things evolve over the next couple years, it’s certainly not impossible. Europe’s biggest problem is that they were unprepared for war, because they genuinely believed Russia wanted to turn a new page after 1990.
The overwhelming majority of the EU is actually very much in favor of financing & supporting Ukraine
no
Basically everyone views the Putin regime as a direct threat to Europe
man he can’t even conquer a country x30 smaller than his own and you want me to belive is a threat for ue ? nato ? or nuclear weaon, nuclear submarin, aircraft carrier and all of that ? who s your dealer ?
I even think the headline is a little offensive, acting as if ceding land is even an option. They ceded land to Russia a decade ago and they’re still getting attacked. WW2 should have taught us that you can’t appease guys like Putin and Hitler.
They didn’t cede land back then either, it got taken over.
It was annexed but they didn’t really fight for it, and ceded
“It” meaning Crimea? It was never ceded. Still part of Ukraine officially.
It was stolen and they absolutely fought for it. They just didn’t have the backing of its allies, and didn’t have the equipment they have now. Ukraine was still being forced to not really have a military during that time as well
you can’t appease guys like Putin and Hitler.
and Trump.
If anyone in the Trump administration had any brains at all, this would have been obvious from the outset.
The only people who can see advantage to Ukraine seeding territory to Russia, is Russia. Everyone else involved can see what a monumental tactical error that would be. Especially since everybody knows the only reason Russia is even at the negotiating table is because they are desperate, given that is the case, there is zero reason to capitulate.
The point is to say Ukraine won’t accept Trump’s plan so they’re at fault.
Which is fucking stupid conclusion because UA doesn’t have to do anything, much less accept a bad “plan.”
The onus has always been on Russia and no amount of feet stomping from the toddler in chief is going to change that fact.
Americans are the dumbest people on the planet, it’ll be enough for them to accept dropping support.
I dont know about dumbest, but they’re definitely up there. The Russians are pretty fucking stupid too. Just a savage horde of drunk, inbred meat for the grinder, too stupid to take out Putin and stop their fathers, brothers, uncles, sons, and grandsons from being sent to the front line to be chewed up by drones.
As an American, I am just smart enough to want my MAGA fathers, brothers, uncles, sons and grandsons to be meat grinded. They only learn when it affects them directly.
If your focus is solely on the MAGA cult instead of the oligarch cult leaders, “just smart enough” might be a little generous.
Americans are bankrolling the Ukrainian defense and extracting enormous concessions from Zelensky as a result.
The longer the war drags on, and the more debt Ukraine assumes in the process, the less sovereignty they’ll maintain in the aftermath.
The stupidest kids in the room right now are the folks at the Russia/Ukraine border who traded in their sovereignty (and often their lives) over an ethnic pissing contest. American investors are going to come out of this flush. Taxpayers are eating the same shit sandwich as everyone else in NATO.
Is Zelenskyy wanting pre 2022 borders or pre 2014 borders?
Yes
The chance of Ukraine giving up territory increases a lot once they lose all their fortified front lines and the piece of land which Russia currently doesn’t control It has the highest elevation of any landmass in the area
The biggest loss of the Trump administration will be that the rest of the world realized they could go on without America.
IMO that is the biggest success. We have gone on too long having too much sway in the world. Power we have proven over and over and over that we are not responsible enough to wield.
He said he would end the war in a day.
He just didn’t say which day.
He said a lot of things.
Moat of them weren’t based in reality.
realized they could go on without America.
Can they tho? Looking at the spineless European leadership I would not be so sure
They can. EU is doing politics. Untangling while saying nice words.
If you believe that the trump administration’s first priority is america, maybe yes.
If their priority is making the USA irrelevant, they will succeed.
I think that’s the wrong narrative.
I don’t think anyone really cares much about that land. It’s s mixture of mud, plastic drone remains and unexploded munitions. It’s important because the defence line is there. Many people say it’s rich in minerals… a lot of land is in a lot of places. Nobody is going to use this land for mining, not at any time soon.
The narrative should be security guarantees.
Because when the news says: Zelensky doesn’t want to ceed land, it implies some kind of pride and stubbornness. But in reality Ukraine wants security guarantees and they would be willing to not militarily contest Crimea and even Donbas. There is no point in ceeding anything were there no guarantees. But if you get them, then a lot is on the table.
The point is it the news and everyone goes with security guarantees narrative it is a much stronger narrative: you want to exist, the enemy doesn’t want you to exist. Instead of taking about land where it can all sound like it bickering about who gets what. Perception matters. A lot of Europeans don’t know any the details of this war and most Americans have no clue. The narrative is important.
I got deleted from another channel “Ukraine” for this view and got called a lot of bad words and I don’t know why. It’s not an extreme view and I think Ukrainian government sees it like that as well.
I see it as a world litmus test for law versus force. If you get invaded and you let them take your land, no matter what it’s “worth”, you have been conquered.
There are people there that just want a normal life. Conquered or not, that doesn’t mean anything compared to not being bombed while they are playing with their kids.
It’s not even that philosophical. It really is just the simple fact that Ukraine has nothing to gain by forfeiting it’s most reinforced defensive line. It took Russian 2 years to advance 30 kilometers, and tens of thousands of fatalities, to capture the relatively small town of Pokrovsk. It’s incredibly expensive for Russia to make even small advancements, and now they want the most reinforced territory in the country for free?
It’s a crazy demand that depends on Ukraine TRUSTING the US to come to its defence after Russia breaks the treaty, after forfeiting their defensive lines.
That is obvious, but it’s not the land, is just the defence line. Hypotheticaly if they get NATO membership in exchange for Donbas, I think Ukraine would be all for that.
People aren’t giving their lives there for some fields in Donbas, but to protect the rest of their country and nation.
For the warmongers here who fully back zelenskyy refusal to cede territory i would like to remember you that ukraine is in need for men and you are welcome on the front lines defending land.
Bark some more, tankie scum.
Keep typing or the Kremlin may pull you from your desk job and send you to the front lines. 🌻🌻🌻
And you think all that have died or been wounded would be happy to have over that territory?
I seem to recall another time where they handed over territory to a despot and believed that would be enough. Sure worked out well for them.
And you think all that have died or been wounded would be happy to have over that territory?
Why don’t you go on the front lines to defend the land if you care so much about it?
Sounds like you have it all figured out.
You didn’t answer the question. Personally i wouldn’t want to go in ukraine risking to be burned alive fighting over invisible lines on a map so that a government can claim its theirs. For this reason i do not advocate for war or back the ones who are forcing other people to fight.
The majority of Ukrainians do not support ceding territory.
And what a stupid fucking thought process you have going. Russia invaded Ukraine, they should be fucking leaving not having tankie shits suggesting that Ukrainians should just give up.
Answer the question yourself, if you care so much about ukraine land and are afraid about russia why don’t you go on the front lines?
A stupid though process is to believe that something is good only because you are not getting your hands dirty and others are doing it for you. Ukrainians should be allowed to do what the fuck they want, if case you aren’t aware people are being drafted by force and many haven’t been able to left the country for years.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXhC8WREVKM
Recently men beetween 18-22 were allowed to leave the border (after two years of not being able to) and many left the country.
Answer the question yourself, if you care so much about ukraine land and are afraid about russia why don’t you go on the front lines?
Because my donations are worth more than my body. Answer the question, why aren’t you being paid to be a mouth piece for russian propaganda? Or seeing how you spell… guessing you’re sitting in russia trying to convince me and others that we should abandon Ukrainians in their fight against the ruzzians.
A stupid though process is to believe that something is good only because you are not getting your hands dirty and others are doing it for you. Ukrainians should be allowed to do what the fuck they want, if case you aren’t aware people are being drafted by force and many haven’t been able to left the country for years.
Yea it’s called a war for your survival, they’re being drafted because it’s needed. Again, the majority want the war to end but the majority don’t want to ceded territory. This isn’t rocket science.
Recently men beetween 18-22 were allowed to leave the border (after two years of not being able to) and many left the country.
Ok and? People don’t like war, people don’t like dying…why don’t you ask the questions why ruzzia is attacking Ukraine and killing civs?
That’s fair, I hope you like being invaded and having another country rule over you.
It’s up to ukrainian people to decide what they want to do, not to the martial law or any ruler.
Fueling this war and empowering authoritarian governments is how we all end up under a boot. There are plenty of countries that are still in business with russia including USA (both current and previous administration). Fighting over inches of land benefits governments not the people that are long gone from that burned land.
Right, it’s up to them until russia anexes them, and they end up under russia boot.
