I’m finding it harder and harder to believe that someone can be this stupid unintentionally.

“Tiny Man Square” LMAO…. The coward won’t even say it.

  • PhilipTheBucket@piefed.socialEnglish
    3·
    15 hours ago

    I’ve answered your questions and provided multiple sources I find reliable in this thread.

    Not really. You provided your argument, but you steadfastly have refused to identify any source that you would accept as valid if I used it as part of my argument. This matches my previous experience with y’all: The lecture is only ever allowed to go in one direction.

    I would be with you but honestly since you decide to believe the CIA propaganda

    Lol

    Okay. You seem very sure of what I believe and where I got the ideas. So tell me: What do I think happened in Tienanmen Square?

    I mean, you don’t have to answer, but this style of argumentation (where you tell me all about what I believe, instead of listening to me telling you what I believe) is also very very common with y’all. It makes it more or less impossible to make progress with the conversation in any non-circular fashion.

    The Myth of Tiananmen

    You know what? Fine. Let me take a look at this.

    The Chinese government estimates more than 300 fatalities. Western estimates are somewhat higher. Many victims were shot by soldiers on stretches of Changan Jie, the Avenue of Eternal Peace, about a mile west of the square, and in scattered confrontations in other parts of the city, where, it should be added, a few soldiers were beaten or burned to death by angry workers.

    Black and Munro say “what took place was the slaughter not of students but of ordinary workers and residents — precisely the target that the Chinese government had intended.” They argue that the government was out to suppress a rebellion of workers, who were much more numerous and had much more to be angry about than the students. This was the larger story that most of us overlooked or underplayed.

    Er

    This is your argument for why the PRC isn’t as bad as portrayed in Western media? They responded to an anti-government demonstration by killing at least 300 people? And the most relevant thing is that it didn’t happen inside the square, but elsewhere?

    Let’s back up a bit. In addition to telling me what I believe happened in the square, can you tell me what you believe happened? Do you think this CJR article you sent me is generally accurate?

    • Tillyrblue@lemmy.worldEnglish
      11·
      6 hours ago

      refused to identify any source that you accept as valid if I used it apart of my argument

      Well that was a dumb question then, just post the source if you have one and we’ll go from there

      seem sure of what I believe

      Based on the sub, the post, my first comment, the content of your reply and your unironic use of tankie I assumed you have anti-PRC bias, but if I’m wrong I’m wrong

      I think the end of the CJR article is a little shaky but its still good for the overall report of the events. There was no massacre of thousands of people in the square like it was first reported by the West. It was a legitimate protest that was taken over by foreign influence (CIA) and enflamed to the point where people began murdering unarmed PLA soldiers. I don’t agree with what some soldiers then did and its terrible that innocent people died. It’s something the PRC has expressed regret about and is working to move past it with it’s people. You won’t find that kind of self-reflection and accountability in the West.

      • PhilipTheBucket@piefed.socialEnglish
        1·
        2 hours ago

        Well that was a dumb question then, just post the source if you have one and we’ll go from there

        Where will we go from there?

        Would it develop once we get there, perhaps, that anything negative about the CCP automatically gets discounted as “biased” or not “reliable” and you would retreat into a landscape where you’ll accept any reliable source, anything at all that isn’t corrupted, but where you refuse under any circumstances to identify what those sources could look like, or which of them seem to have established a pretty solid track record of being grounded in reality, because of what unpleasant truths might be revealed from the same sources you had admitted might have something relevant to say?

        Like I say, this isn’t my first time having this conversation lol. I knew in advance that you would refuse to admit what might be reliable sources on my side, keeping the power and privilege solely for yourself to determine what is a legitimate source and making your arguments on that unequal playing field and only there. As soon as you admit that something might be factual or trustworthy that doesn’t correspond with your preexisting biases, the whole game falls apart.

        Based on the sub, the post, my first comment, the content of your reply and your unironic use of tankie I assumed you have anti-PRC bias, but if I’m wrong I’m wrong

        Okay, so you don’t know what I believe, or where I got my ideas. Apology accepted. Progress! Try not to come out of the gate with wild haymaker strawmen in the future, it’ll make your conversations a lot more two-sided (although without admitting that someone else might be able to point to real facts you don’t like because they contain “bias,” it’ll still be pretty limited how far it will go).

        It was a legitimate protest that was taken over by foreign influence (CIA) and enflamed to the point where people began murdering unarmed PLA soldiers.

        Oh, wow. Murder. Well, we can’t have that. That is terrible. Of course,

        I don’t agree with what some soldiers then did and its terrible that innocent people died.

        Oh, wow. Innocent people died. Passive voice. What a fucking tragedy. Of course no one wants that kind of thing to happen.

        You gotta get a desk at the NYT helping cover Gaza, I think they’d really appreciate your self-reflection and accountability on this topic.

        It’s something the PRC has expressed regret about and is working to move past it with it’s people. You won’t find that kind of self-reflection and accountability in the West.

        Oh, wow. Where did they issue their public statement of regret and self-reflection about it? I must have missed their clear expression of responsibility for the killings.