After seeing a megathread praising Mao Zedong, an actual mass killer, and a post about a guy saying “99% of westerners are 100000000000% sure they know what happened in ‘Tiny Man Square’ […] the reasons for this are complex and involve propaganda […],” I am genuinely curious what leads people to this belief system. Even if propaganda is involved when it comes to Tiananmen Square, it doesn’t change the atrocities that were/are committed everywhere else in China.
I am all for letting people believe what they want but I am lost on why one would deliberately praise any authoritarian system this hard.
Can someone please help me understand why this is such a large and prominent community? How have these ideals garnered such a following outside of China?
Actual answer: It’s pretty much just teens who get radicalized by youtube channels such as wow_mao, yugopnik, hakim, badempanda and most notably thedeprogram podcast, and young students joining ML/Maoist book clubs in their unis though that’s more of a hit and miss since some book clubs actually read Marx and Lenin. They have audiences in the hundreds of thousands, sometimes even millions so it’s not a “small, underground current”.
Through these communities and channels they learn what I’d describe as “falsified pop theory” that usually manifests as exclusively Stalin/Mao and out of context quotes from actual Marxists like Lenin. This results in uncritical support of China and other ML countries like Vietnam and Cuba (all of whom are bourgeois states and literally nothing about them resembles DOTP), embrace of nationalism, maoist third-worldism which is where the “unlimited genocide on the first world” comes from and just endless moralism that you’ve heard time and time again which is explicitly anti-marxist. At times, they might also show support to Islam for some reason.
If my tone sounds a bit harsh, that’s because they’ve completely bastardized marxism and just continue being more and more annoying with their “agitprop” (making communist memes and throwing them into social media void to spread “marxism” or something, revolution through reddit and lemmy), quote farming, absolute glazing of certain historical figures and just dogshit takes in general.
precisely this, I would say with a touch of “just wanting to belong”. I think a lot of people who end up in tankie circles are chronically online, and have a hard time socializing. echo chambers don’t really care, and will treat anyone who regurgitates the same talking points as an equal. maybe that’s just around here though, there’s plenty of leftists around but I have yet to see specifically ML/maoist groups that aren’t just more than reading theory. I imagine it’s easy to fall into that kinda “western country bad” thought pattern when the only people who you interact with tell you it’s righteous and justified with zero nuance.
I’m a socialist and am lucky enough to meet a lot of leftists irl, and I get along with all of them regardless of specific viewpoints. unfortunately, the people who are the loudest on lemmy aren’t the kind of people you meet walking down the street, so they end up lacking the “challenging your own ideals” bit of developing rational and sane viewpoints.
aren’t those groups funded by China?
No, in the same way how feminists aren’t funded by The Big Feminism™, online incels aren’t funded by The Big Incel™ or Linux evangelists on Lemmy being funded by GNU project. Not everything has to do with geopolitics or geopolitical influence, it’s sometimes just a matter of ideology and communities around these ideologies.
If anything, I’d argue that ML’s are closer to being a CIA psyop than some agents of China or some shit
Yugopnik is a tankie? I don’t listen to deprogram, just his channel
Not sure how you didn’t pick up on it but Yugopnik is indeed a Marxist, which is what “tankie” is a pejorative for, for the most part.
Saying that Hakim is almost exclusively Stalin/Mao is actually an impressively uneducated take. I’d say half of Hakim’s videos are atrocity propaganda of western imperialism, which is absolutely necessary, and I’ve learnt more about the horrors of capitalism through him than through anyone else.
The majority of the theory I read is Marx, Engels, Lenin, and modern theorists. I do read Mao and Stalin too, of course, but the groundwork for Marxism-Leninism is in Marx, Engels, and Lenin, of course. The fact that I have read Marx, Engels, and Lenin is why I support socialist states, rather than do everything in my power to cherry pick quotes to avoid supporting existing socialism and make a mockery of Marxism. I recommend Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the Theory and History of Socialist Governance.
If my tone sounds a bit harsh, it’s because the goal is to understand the world so as to change it, not just doompost.