• Val@anarchist.nexus
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    5 days ago

    The point isn’t arbitrary. It’s the winter solstice. It just drifted a bit due to history and stuff.

    • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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      5 days ago

      I was going to point out that if it isn’t, in fact, the winter solstice, then it is arbitrary.

      But I decided to start the new year without the pretentiousness and pedantic proclamations

      • null@piefed.nullspace.lol
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        5 days ago

        if it isn’t, in fact, the winter solstice, then it is arbitrary.

        That’s not true though. The date is significant and not arbitrary, it’s just not the winter solstice (anymore).

        • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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          5 days ago

          Actually, there is no such thing as a ‘winter solstice.’ The start of the Northern winter is the start of the Southern summer.

          • null@piefed.nullspace.lol
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            5 days ago

            Sure. But none of that makes New Years Day arbitrary by virtue of it not being, in fact, the winter solstice.

            • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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              5 days ago

              If you use the equinoxes or the solstices you’re still being arbitrary because there are two of each.

              January 4 is the day of the year that the Earth is closest to the Sun [perihelion] That would be a good date, but there will be those who argue for stating the year when Earth is furthest away.

              • null@piefed.nullspace.lol
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                5 days ago

                Okay, but why would that mean that New Years Day not being the winter solstice makes it arbitrary to celebrate on Jan 1?

                • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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                  5 days ago

                  It’s arbitrary because there’s no moment that is the obvious beginning of the cycle.

                  That’s the very definition of ‘arbitrary’

                  • null@piefed.nullspace.lol
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                    5 days ago

                    That moment is the moment the Julian calendar restarts. It’s not arbitrary at all, and certainly not made so by virtue of it not being the/a winter solstice (your original statement).

      • Val@anarchist.nexus
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        5 days ago

        Actually this is a fair point. What counts as arbitrary? For me the slight drift is just due to the way calendars and culture works, and while it is more arbitrary than having it on the solstice. It is less arbitrary than having it on your(anyone who happens to read this) birthday. It’s ultimately a matter of where you draw the baseline. Even if new year was on the winter solstice you could still argue that it’s arbitrary because there are four others. Arbitrarity is relative.

        • Val@anarchist.nexus
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          5 days ago

          The UTC is completely 100% arbitrary. The only reason it’s there is because an observatory happened to be on a specific hill, and then it drifted a bit (like most human things do), but the UTC/GMT has since it’s conception been completely arbitrary measurement. There isn’t a way to define a 0 latitude on a rotating sphere without making it an arbitrary point.

    • erusuoyera@sh.itjust.works
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      5 days ago

      It’s Xmas that highjacked the winter solstice. New year used to be the start of spring (March) then the Romans decided to acknowledge the first 2 months, and then changed the start of the year to January so they could elect some officials to govern Spain instead of waiting an extra 2 months. It’s about as arbitrary as it can get.

      https://youtu.be/RrGHtl5qJfk About 24 minutes in to skip to ^

      • deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz
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        5 days ago

        Ssh! If the northern hemisphere people figure out how awesome summer Christmas and new years is we’ll never get rid of them.

      • Val@anarchist.nexus
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        5 days ago

        The fact that the other hemisphere exists did cross my mind, but I decided to ignore it because clarifying would have reduced the quippy nature of the comment.

        The comic is also saying that the entire world lives by the Gregorian calendar but that isn’t true as well.

        • Quokka@quokk.au
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          5 days ago

          It’s all good, you’re still technically correct. The Gregorian calendar is based off of Europeans, so it would still be originated from their winter solstice.

    • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      I don’t see how this is so heavily downvoted…? It makes complete sense that humans (by far most of which live in the northern hemisphere) would celebrate that the darkest days have passed and that we’re heading from a dark and harsh winter towards a promise of spring. Coming from the north, I can definitely testify to the fact that you feel in your whole body that the days start getting longer.

      The fact that the exact date is slightly off basically amounts to a rounding error, and making a point out of it is just pedantic.

    • illi@piefed.social
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      5 days ago

      But it isn’t. Winter solstice already happened before Christmas. New Year, in our current culture, is 100% arbitrary.