hi, so i recently discovered im more left wing (democratic) than right wing (republican), but im still not the most politically correct. earlier today we were discussing abortion and i said i felt bad for the women who the anti abortion people affect, but my friend corrected me and said i meant “people who get pregnant”, because men (like trans men but still men) can get pregnant. and not all women get pregnant so it doesnt affect them. she said it gently but i feel like an ass</3
Hey, trans masc here,
Love the sentiment but don’t feel like an ass. If you want to include us in the sentiment it does some great stuff! It signals to trans and non-binary people who might be in listening range but be closeted or suppressing their needs in the interest of “not making waves” that you are a safe person to be themselves around. A lot of people who “don’t know a non binary person” might not simply because the ones around them are in hiding because onboarding someone to our status is exhausting and sometimes risky so signaling that you’ve already done some the work is AMAZING.
But that being said… Don’t feel guilty. This isn’t a game of right and wrong. “Political Correctness” is a tactic from the 90’s that really didn’t work because it was about policing. It was a cold politeness rather than a meaningful offering of solidarity or a chance to learn and there is a learning curve to allyship and thus a gratitude just for trying or considering a change. That you feel guilty is very sweet but you deserve to be comfortable and happy too. We as a community tend to celebrate people doing us a kindness, not begrudge people. Your friend showed you a spot where you could insert a moment of solidarity in the future if you wanted. That you immediately seem to want to is a rarer gift than you know.
I really love this reply and especially how it promotes genuine decency rather than coerced decency. I know I’m not exactly adding to the discussion, but I really wanted to recognize how warm this reply felt to me with something more than a mere upvote.
Thank you for this I do try my best to be warm!
I have heard some folk fearmonger non-binary inclusion as some sort of theoretical pronoun police with some wild idea of disciplinary power. I know a lot of non-binary folk since we are pretty decent at identifying each other in the wild… and most of us don’t even introduce ourselves with our preferred pronouns if folk don’t make the space at a place we know we’re likely good because it’s still kind of awkward!
We know we’re asking for a mental effort in helping us out so when it happens and people want to give us a boost it’s so magic. The amount of energy we reclaim by not having our bodies reflected back at us through words is noticeable and so appreciated. With any group of folks with needs self advocating all the time really isn’t tenable. We oftentimes just want to pick the path of least resistance even if it means putting up with stuff that’s bad for us.
When people misgender someone by accident or say something in the moment that upon reflection wasn’t great they often are far too hard on themselves. Yeah it doesn’t feel great but you gotta step on some feet before you can dance and we’re just happy you’re dancing!
Okay hold the phone. Do you actually think that the democrats are anything close to the left?
No
I’m going to flip this a bit, do you only feel bad for just the “people who get pregnant who the anti abortion people affect”? Or do you actually feel bad for all the “people who the anti abortion people affect”, like doctors, those trying to use IVF, widowers or even the unwanted children, for example?
Rather than trying to use a more accurately specific term, I think using a more general term is likely easier and is probably more accurate.
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I would not worry about it. If people get bent out of shape then so be it. Im super liberal but I did not grow up where gender and sex were different things. Im cool with folks being trans but if they want me to change to accomodate them well thats not going to happen. They can live their lives and the law can protect them from discrimination but people will be who they are. Its like if a furry wants me to use some fursona thing thats unlikely to happen. Its cool they have one but im not part of that world but its cool for them to be them. Now granted this might change a bit if Im good friends with someone. At that point they have a bit more points to get me to change my habits. To me its a bit like using a nickname. You do it with those you know.
Not an asshole, just a gentle correction from your friend!
First off, this is not Reddit, so stop trying to turn it into one with these kinds of posts.
Secondly, I reported your post for violating Rule 3 which seems to be the norm I guess. Because you’re looking for support.
Next time know where you are and read the rules.
That is not what rule 3 means, and you are being hostile for no reason.
If you’re looking for support, that’s breaking Rule 3.
And no, it’s not for “no reason”
This is not Reddit. This is not AITA which Reddit used to be plagued by and people over there treated every subreddit as. This question offers nothing open-ended. This user is just looking for validation and therefore breaks Rule 3.
Cry me a river. Rules exist for a reason. Learn to read or shove off.
Charming.
Trans man here, in the context specifically of abortion discussions I definitely appreciate it when people try to make their language inclusive, because these issues do affect trans men and nonbinary people as well. But intent is at least as important; if someone is supportive but doesn’t say something ‘perfectly’, that’s not the same as someone saying something with malice or prejudice.
Usually terrible people don’t stop and worry about whether or not they’ve been hurtful to others. More importantly, don’t let anyone on the internet make you feel like you need to come to them for absolution. You’re the person that knows the most about your inner life and actions to determine whether or not you’re a bad person, and you have the capacity for moral reasoning. Do you think you’re a bad person for not remembering to use inclusive language 100% of the time? Is perfection a reasonable bar to expect for yourself in this regard? Do you think you hurt anyone with your comment, and if so did you make amends? Is the guilt you feel proportional to the amount of harm caused?
You don’t have to answer any of this here, just a suggestion for things to think about.
I know people will disagree, but as a trans man I personally find language like “people who get pregnant” really dysphoria-inducing and uncomfortable. It’s still better than AFAB/AMAB though.
what do u prefer? im so sorry its dysphoria inducing :(
Thank you. Honestly I don’t have an ideal answer for you. I would have said the same thing (“women”), although I see why people take issue with it.
I think “people who can get pregnant” is marginally better than “people who get pregnant”.
Wait, Afab and Amab aren’t pirate captains? I imagine the jolly Rogers have different pride color sets, the skull also a rainbow.
(Hope next time you see/hear those terms, you think pirates instead of discomfort)
I love this comment so much you have no idea
Who cares? Here’s Paperclip People – 4 My Peepz (Dubfire Rework) https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=TlKTBB3omAs
First of all, I’m proud of you for being the kind of person who is self-critical enough to ask questions like this. Things like ‘Do I speak hurtfully?’ And ‘Am I acting with privilege?’ Are hard to seriously ask, because they challenge our entire life structure to some extent, and might even require us to undertake the perilous and difficult task of manually adjusting our beliefs.
Then, to address what you actually asked, I think a general term is in your favor, if it’s true. Would you rather communicate that you feel for everyone undergoing an experience, or just most of them? It’s an easy thing to forget, that non women can become pregnant, and I doubt anyone blames you for misspeaking. That’s not an asshole thing to do. Nor is it an asshole move for someone to correct you. That’s just the dialectic of culture functioning properly and healthily. It’s unfortunate that we’re trained to associate self-change as a negative thing, because we should be questioning ours and other’s beliefs constantly, imo
Lefty here. I have a queer wife who identifies as non-binary but still identifies as my wife, as well as plenty of trans and queer people in my social circles, and I don’t see the need to word police myself over completely innocent phrases. I don’t think you’re harming anyone by just saying women, when the men or nonbinary people who can get pregnant constitute like a tenth of a percentage of the population.
I go out of my way to make sure the not-straight people in my life feel safe and comfortable around me, but there’s a certain level of pearl clutching over language that I don’t feel the need to engage with. You aren’t being hateful, you’re treating people like human beings, and you get to decide for yourself how you speak.
I mostly agree with this. Your word choice doesn’t have to be ‘perfect’ by some random definition of that. When a friend makes a request like yours did, as long as it seems reasonable, then I think its worth putting an effort into accommodating it however.
I tend to not be overly concerned with how random strangers think I should speak, but I want those around me that I care about to feel heard and cared about.
There’s definitely middle ground to be found, and decency to exercise.
NTA, just use more inclusive language I think is what she wants :)
What she said :)
You are not.
To me this sounds like one of these things where some of us lefties can get into the weeds of “perfect” language.
Sure, if you are talking to someone like that and using the wrong words, then that could be kind of shitty but even then if people care about you they will give you grace and just hope you will get it right at some point.
You don’t have to say the right words every time, but when it’s important, you should make an effort to try.
It feels a bit over the top of you’re not directly talking to someone affected. But maybe that’s a me thing.
TL;DR no. You’re good. Don’t take these comments personally but also don’t completely ignore them.
