Related: Robert Reich posted earlier today that Tesla paid ZERO taxes on $5 billion in sales (earnings?), so that’s just fucking great.
You must log in or register to comment.
The billionaires are the thought leaders. Clearly they didn’t just fail upwards, and should just be in charge of the direction of our entire society. These nepo babies should absolutely be in charge.
I love paying my share of taxes and I will always do so to the absolute best of my ability, whether the amount is justified or not. Taxes are wonderful, represent an investment in your country and your society, and can be used to create great things that benefit all of us.
My anger is not for taxes, my anger is exclusively reserved for those who do not pay their share of taxes and the shamefully dishonest politicians who porkbarrel those taxes into things that mostly benefit themselves and then sabotage other politicians attempts to do actual good because they’re not benefiting themselves.
Taxes are not the problem. Those people are the problem, and we are going to have to do something about those people. I am working deliberately and relentlessly towards that goal instead. I believe in civilization and society and I will rebuild this fucking thing from the ground up, brick by brick if I have to.
That’s a lot of people man. Poor and rich alike. Lots and lots of people cheat on their taxes, lie about their income, and use tax loopholes to reduce their tax burdens, both legally and illegally.
OP above doesn’t have to report that 2500, and incredibly common for self employed people to vastly under report their income within about 10%. The vast majority will never be audited, but from those who have been audited the IRS draws the following conclusion:
“For example, overall, people reporting work earnings to the IRS that are between the 5th and 75th percentiles underreported self-employment income of $4,000 on average,” she said. “In contrast, those below the 5th percentile underreported self-employment income averaging $21,000 while those above the 95th percentile underreported self-employment income averaging $27,000, and this is a conservative estimate, as earnings above $250,000 are masked in the data.”
in other countries it’s far worse. a major part of the 2009 Greek financial crisis was the fact 1/3 of Greek GDP is untaxed. that’s 1/3 of the taxes missing entirely.
https://www.npr.org/2010/03/25/125125500/greeces-bottom-line-too-many-tax-cheats
Yes, I am very aware of this, I have known this since I started paying taxes. It’s very, very abundantly clear. Legal loopholes are fine, I don’t have to agree with the laws, but I do agree to follow them until we get them changed (which we must). But illegal tax dodging? Are you trying to convince me I should respect anyone for that? Even if I believed they have good motives or reasons, which I don’t, there are lots of better ways to practice civil disobedience than withholding taxes like it’s a fucking tip for good government.
it’s not a matter of you respecting them. it’s a matter of whether or not it’s economically or legally worthwhile.
if the fine for cheating on my taxes is less than the tax i’d pay (and the returns I’d get on investing those taxes) it’s worth it.
People behave according to incentives. If the penalty for under reporting your taxes was 20 years in jail and it was rigorously enforced, people would not cheat on their taxes as much. However, the punishment is:
In cases of substantial understatement, the accuracy-related penalty is 20% of the portion of the underpayment of tax.
So basically if I get caught, all I do is pay more tax, which might be scary to lower income people, but for rich people who can get MASSIVE returns on their untaxed income, it is stupid not to do it. if I can save 10,000 per year and invest it and turn it into 400K after ten years, then the 20% extra tax I’d pay on that withheld 100K is a not much of a penalty at all. It’s 20K or 5% of the money I now have from cheating on my taxes. and even if i only double my money to 200K, I’m still only paying 10% of what I have earned.
shouldn’t the penalty be 500K? that would make cheating on my taxes more costly than not cheating.
Tesla just announced a $5.7 billion profit, and will pay $0 on taxes.
That foreign Goblin destroyed our government, stole priceless data, and pays no taxes?
That’s the kind of immigrant I’m interested in kicking out of the country, after a serious beating.
But but you can’t tax the Holy Job Creators! /s
the jobs they create :
“Pack all this shit into a box so fast that you need to piss in a bottle”
Is it imperative you’re miserable and barely scraping by. Top 1 priority. Actually, it’s in your best interest, but you just don’t realize it!
I don’t understand the humour in this
Income is the worst way to make money.
Which is why these rich clowns don’t make (relatively) much money. All of it is capital gains and loans. Taxed far less and not at all, especially when it’s routed through all sorts of expenses and shell companies.
That’s because Bezos’s net worth is in imaginary money. His actual income from Amazon was only like $80k a year.
Unrealized gains shouldn’t be taxed unless they’re being used as collateral to get real money.
The fact that income is taxed while assets aren’t is the whole point of contention. Working people earn income. Wealthy people own assets. Therefore, working people pay more taxes than wealthy people and that’s not how a free and fair society is supposed to operate.
The problem is that assets have no tangible value until they’re actually sold, unless you’re going to tax the price it was purchased at every year. But that’s an issue because people like Bezos likely didn’t buy theirs. I guess you could use the price at market close on the day it was issued
The point of contention comes from not understanding that net worth using unrealized gains is always an estimate.
Bezos doesn’t have $240 billion. He has stuff that people think is worth $240 billion. The actual value is imaginary until you find someone willing to pay for it.
Which leads to another issue people don’t understand. If Bezos tried to liquidate $240b in stocks, he wouldn’t get anywhere near that. Bulk sales like that drop stock prices. Him doing it would probably tank the company.
The best way to try to assign a dollar amount to that imaginary money outside of a sale is when they use it as collateral to get real money.
unless you’re going to tax the price it was purchased at every year.
You mean like how land is taxed?
That’s not how land is taxed
Not that imaginary: Bezos sold $5.7bn worth of stock in 2025.
How about a wealth tax on this imaginary money?
What amount will be taxed? The assets change value every second the market is open. If you have a hard capture date, then the wealthy will tank their stocks right before.
The best way to tax it is to treat the use of the asset as collateral as a realized gain and tax it as such.
Dude, I’m on 80k a year. Pretty sure I couldn’t afford a gazillion-dollar wedding in Venice
And? My point is the real money he got from Amazon that can actually be taxed is not the same as his estimated net worth.
Bezos doesn’t have a checking account with billions sitting in it. His wealth is in the unrealized gains on non-liquid assets. It’s imaginary money until it’s used as collateral for loans, at which point it should be taxed as a realized gain.
That would be the “unless it’s used as collateral to get real money.” part
Well how else are they going to subsidize the losses of the rich if not with your dollars?
So funny!
Pro tips:
Many jurisdictions don’t require you to have a business license if your revenue is under a certain threshold and the work you do is unregulated. Basically, you can just decide you own a business at any time without filling out any paperwork.
Housecleaning, auto mechanic, and IT consulting businesses aren’t regulated and can be used to justify 90% of common purchases. A YouTube channel is a business and can be used to write off anything you make a video about.
Any major purchases you made throughout the year can be declared as an asset of your business. If you say you only use it for business 50% of the time, it’s practically impossible for anyone to disprove.
Also, 50% of the money you spend on those major purchases can be declared as a business loss, which further reduces your tax obligation.
So, let’s say you bought a PC and a 3D printer this year. You can decalre both as assets belonging 50% to your business, declare half the cost as a business expense, and declare no income from the business. You can also declare half of your gas purchases as being for your business. You’ll get a credit for the asset, and a credit for the “business loss.”
Basically, you can create a company that has your home address as its HQ, say it didn’t earn any money, but you invested in it. Then, declare ordinary purchases as assets and investments into the company by saying you use them for business 50% of the time.
There’s no requirement to have a business license before telling the IRS you have a business. There’s no requirement to run a business “well” and there’s no penalty for running a business badly. Receipts aren’t required to declare assets or losses, but you may need them if you’re audited. You’re unlikely to be audited due to the 50% declaration. If you are audited and you have receipts, you’re covered.
Disclaimer: I’m not a tax professional and this isn’t advice.
Not where I’m from. If you have a business in Florida, you must register with the state (about $130 a year), and the county (about $100 a year), and there’s state licensing, depending on your business, and that’s all over the place, but figure $350 a year. There’s lots of other charges that will come up, too. Florida’s hand is always out.
And then you have to sign up with the Department of Revenue and submit a monthly sales tax report, even if you don’t collect sales taxes.
Ironically, the state border sign to Florida says “Welcome to the Free State of Florida!” where NOTHING is free.
shit I should have claimed my laptop
If you’ve already filed, you can still do an amended return
(I’m not a professional and this is not tax advice)
However, I have a home business pulling in a few thousand a year.
About business losses, I think you’re partially right. The IRS has a tile that you need to show that you’re trying to make a profit, despite losses. One of the ways they do that is showing a profit over the course of a few years. (Maybe 3 out of 5 years? My memory is foggy.) But if you don’t seem like a business, then you are only allowed to deduct up to the amount that you earn.
But yeah, year one of a business, you can definitely take a loss. And why not? The IRS is short-staffed so fewer audits.
I feel like this is all well and good until you need insurance. If you damage something and get sued without insurance/LLC, they’re suing you directly instead. Dicey territory depending on what you’re being sued for.
Assuming you’re actually doing work and not just using the business as a loss center, yes.
If you’re actually doing work, it’s well worth your time and money to form an LLC.
However, an LLC can’t deduct the same things as a sole-proprietorship. So, if you simply want a business on paper to serve as a loss center, that’s probably the better choice.
Again, this is just MY understanding of things. I’m in no way trying to give advice or tell you what YOU should be doing, only you can decide what’s best for you.
I do programming as a hobby, and it’s not out of the question that some day I’ll make something that will be sold. Can I claim my gaming PC and my homelab as business expenses? As well as my electricity and intenet?
As far as I understand tax law (which isn’t very far), when filling out your Schedule C, you can write off 50% of the cost of the PC and lab equipment without raising too much suspicion. You can also claim them as assets and claim depreciation on them. You can also claim the portion of electricity and internet used, unless you’re a full-time W-2 employee working from home.
You can also film yourself doing these projects and upload it to YouTube, which means you have a video production business.
My understanding is this is how most upper-middle class people and minor millionaires legitimately reduce their tax obligations.
I’m not an expert on tax, but I can tell you from personal experience that for the company that I run, with me being the only employee, I claim anything related to the business. The grey area is what percentage it’s used for the business, I’m not sure on that part. I have a separate laptop I use for the business and when I purchased it I claimed it 100 percent. Like stated though keep your receipts to cover your ass.
The 2025 Big Beautiful Bill lets you write off 100% of the expense on the year you purchase it, instead of depreciating it over several years. Make big purchases, pay less tax dollars to this government.
Disclaimer: I am not an accountant or financial advisor, do your own homework to see what qualifies in your situation.
I am also not an accountant, but in my country even a failed business project is still a business project. E.g you run an IT consultancy and suddenly decide you need to do something with AI. Wellll now that gaming PC with a really over the top GPU is actually a business purchase because you NEED that VRAM. AI project didn’t do all that well? Oh well, shit happens. Keep the PC tho, maybe you’ll need it for another project soon.
Home office is another fun one. In my country, you have to decide what % of different purchases are for business vs living use, for tax-free expense compensations. But the interesting thing is, you can go really in depth with that. 20-40% of your toilet paper could be business usage reasonably, depending on what percent of awake time is spent working vs not working.
As far as I understand it, these can all be written off in America under the same pretense. The only difference is the paperwork is a lot more complicated. Most of what you’re describing is handled in the 1040 Schedule C
There’s a joke on a Family Guy episode where Peter starts a business, then later on he’s like “Lois we need to immediately put a desk in every room in this house”. It’s a good joke but I wondered how many people would get it.
I declare my self an IT consultant. Now what?
Total up all your major tech purchases for the year, divide that number in half to get your total “losses” for the year. Fill out your 1040 Schedule C, say you have an IT Consulting business, sole owner, sole proprietor, no LLC. Declare zero income, then declare your losses in the appropriate category (office expense, equipment, break room supplies, etc.). The more receipts you have, the better, in case you get audited. If you declare it, save the receipts just in case or just roll the dice and claim whatever you want, there’s barely any auditors left and they’re all busy looking at the people claiming dogs and dead people as dependents.
Once you finish filling out your Schedule C, you should see your federal obligation reduced.
I wish I knew this last year when I got that GPU. Should I declare pizza and beer as income if I help bro build a PC?
Can you fix my printer?
No.
Printers work using ancient black magic and are powered by the tortured souls of the lost and damned. To fix them is to understand them, and to understand them is to descend into madness, becoming one of the lost souls to fuel the eldritch horror that is the ink slinger.
Seriously though, if your printer isn’t a Brother laser printer, throw it in the trash and go buy a Brother laser printer, then write it off on your taxes. Mine has worked for years and hasn’t needed anything but a $50 toner cart every few thousand pages.
For most people though, it’s more economical to just print at the local FedEx or Office Depot
Sure! bodily throws it out the window
Do you really need to print? That will be $500.
Now you get pay the employer half of your social security tax!
Bold of you to assume I have the charisma to convince someone to pay me.
I fell like the disclaimer should really be at the top. Specially because it is very geographically dependant and this is the internet.
Maybe. On the other hand, if you choose to act on unreliable or incomplete information, that’s on you.
Part of being a responsible adult is understanding the law and how it applies to you in any situation in which you may find yourself, BEFORE you make up your mind what you’re going to do.
Pro tip: if you are actually making side income like this and reporting it to the IRS then in many situations you can deduct the costs of the things you needed to buy in the course of generating that income.
This does not work on W2 income, though, as much as it would be nice to deduct the costs of driving to an office etc
That only matters when the value of those deductions exceeds the standard deduction though, isn’t that right?
No, deductions for business expenses happen “above the line” so they reduce your taxable income. The standard deduction happens “below the line” and is applied to your taxable income after business expenses etc
Yes and for the purposes of reducing taxable income, not the overall tax burden.
An example in a vacuum: If you report $10,000 and itemize a $2000 deduction for an expense, you’d be taxed as if you made $8000.
Some take it to believe the $2000 deduction means they deduct $2000 from what they owe in taxes and then feel cheated and blindsided when they still owe.
The standard deduction is just under $16,000. So if we round things out: the tax bracket for the first $10,000 of taxable income is a 10% rate. If you made $26,000 you’d owe $1000 with the standard. (26k minus 16k, leaving 10% of 10k.)
In this same scenario if you could itemize $26,000 in deductions on $26,000 of income, you’d owe $0. No one self employed or any worker can actually do this reasonably. But large businesses can, and do.
This is how billionaires pay no taxes. They use their business expenses, loans, and losses to deduct the entire amount of their taxable income to eliminate any possible tax burden.
deleted by creator
Above the line deductions reduce your taxable income, from there you take the standard deduction or itemize. You are conflating two separate events
deleted by creator
Yes, that’s how I always understood it
The real question is how many billions in welfare government bailouts and credits did Tesla get?
Republicans are so worried about poor people on welfare, but Tesla would literally be closed without welfare money. Rules for thee.
When Tesla does it, they’re called “carbon credits”
Walmart
I’m all for corporations and the wealthy paying their fair share of taxes, which they often don’t.
However, revenue is not income and gains on investments are unrealized gains until you sell your shares and withdraw the cash.
If I’m reading Tesla’s income statement correctly, they expect to pay something like $1.4B in taxes on $5.2B in income for 2025. Figures calculated using fuzzy pre-coffee math in my head and may not reflect any reasonable accounting standards
I think people are upset about that loophole. Businesses buy yachts, trips around the world and bribing politicians for their owners and the common person is just trying to not die.
just fucking stop. everyone, all of you, together. just stop.
We can’t. Taxes are deducted automatically by employers. Tax season is really just “donation season” for the tax preparation industry
deleted by creator
Isn’t there something with exemptions you can do to you don’t send them money ahead of time?
You can claim yourself as a dependent which will result in less tax being taken from your paycheck
Yes there is. You can claim however many you need to make sure nothing is automatically removed. Most people can’t budget though so it’s a bad idea in general when they get that huge bill once a year.
However talking about not paying anymore? Yep, go for it. I’m tempted to just pay my local and property taxes and say fuck federal taxes until shit improves.
you get it. try to talk with others. most Americans i encounter are hopelessly defeated.
Not unless you had a $0 tax liability the previous year.
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
How do I stop paying taxes? They are automatically deducted from my paychecks before I see any money myself. Also stores will refuse to sell to me if I don’t pay sales tax.
Isn’t there something with exemptions you can do so you don’t send them money ahead of time?
And yeah, only income tax do you have any control over.
Yes, v you can adjust your w4 withholding deductions with your employer. But there’s a penalty for underpaying to specifically prevent you from doing this. And unlike for rich people, w2 worker audits can be done basically automatically without any human input because it’s super easy to calculate, as your employer tells the IRS how much you earned that year
So you have an option.
None of this is ever going to be easy.
If you don’t pay what you owe, they garnish your wages and make you pay even more! Woo, you beat fascism.
Removed by mod
Yes, you have the option of going to prison for tax evasion.
Removed by mod
You’re starting to get into trolling behavior. This is a warning.
Assuming you’re on a W2, add deductions until your tax per paycheck is 0. You’ll get a bill for the full amount next time you file. You’re free to not pay it, get charged huge fines, and possibly end up in federal prison like Nico198x apparently wants you to.
They can also just empty your bank account, and then possibly send you to federal prison. No big deal
Good point, I forgot about garnishment
