Although I don’t have the time to research the communities we’re proposing to ban from feddit.org, I’m glad we’re targeting communities first based on evidence rather than banning entire instances outright because of our intuitions.

Wholeheartedly agree that we should isolate Zionists though. Fuck em.

As for the future, I agree that we should consider re-federating with these communities if 1) they change their policies to prohibit Zionists and the other points OP mentions, and 2) they show consistent mod logs that adhere to those policies, seeking deplatforming of mods that fail to apply compliance correctly.

Edit: instance-wide policy changes would also go hard, as others have said. It’s in our interest to notify anti-Zionist users on Feddit.org that their instance safeguards Zionists because we’re looking out for their best interests. Cutting off complete contact can shake things up enough for anti-Zionists to recognize why there is a defederation/ban. If we ban just the communities, then we won’t have as wide of an impact.

Curious to have the debate with other db0-ers

Edit 2: we could also consider completely defederating from these communities, then doing temporary protest defederation bursts with Feddit.org overall so normies over there get notified of our reasons for defederating on a frequent basis. Defederating from Feddit.org although one time will have a short term effect of informing the people there. Regular (or irregular) bans for defined periods of time can offer more chances of visibility and lasting impact, while upholding the Fediverse and staving off mass fracturization.

I agree the mods are using antisemitism as a bit of a blanket power for abuse, but this whole post just sounds like personal beef.

Their rules look reasonable and most of their mod logs look acceptable. Some of the removed comments are over the top hate.

I never see these posts in my feed but I would disagree with this ban.

With how big some of those communities are, blocking them is paramount to defederating from the instance itself in terms of losing access to posts unrelated to Israel or Zionism (a quarter of Lemmy monthly active users are subscribed to !europe@feddit.org).

Zionism should be spoken out against, but the repercussions of further Threadiverse fragmentation should also be considered. Just as troubling are extremist posts on lemmy.ml, Lemmygrad, and Hexbear. However, if their federation is maintained with the benefit of Threadiverse unity gained (with the user retaining the option of implementing their own blocks), then what amounts to partial defederation with another major instance in this case should also be avoided.

Just defed them.

our anti-zionism rule follows the same fallacy, as anti-semitism laws in many european did: it is too narrow and too broad at the same time.

it is too broad in a sense that we talked about banning problematic users. now we talk about banning communities, which cover much of a language. dach is a big collection bucket for europeans speaking german. in their sidebar they mention, that they want to keep palestine / israel discussions out of the comm - which is fair play IMO.

it is too narrow in a sense, that it is hyper focussed on one issue. zionists are bad and commit atrocities, which need to be harshly reprehended. but there are many bad things, which do not get caught by this rule. as an example: what happens to the uyghur population in china is simply not ok. still .ml is an instance, which quite openly denies that anything even happens. yet we are not discussing banning accounts and or communities, which do these things.

i would much rather have an anti-discrimination rule, which covers zionism, racism, sexism, discrimination on hair colour, medical things, … this rule should also define what actions we can and want to take again who and what.

this would cover more problems, while not excluding anyone. hopefully also reduce needed arguments.

Get rid of them please. Defed completely

I agree that these communities should be blocked, however I am much more in favor of defederating Feddit as a whole and not just banning these communities. This is because it is Feddit as a platform who enables this behavior, and who ultimately is suppressing anti-Zionist and antifascist voices, while making bad faith arguments to defend Zionism. Including threatening and ultimately defederating other instances for calling them out on it as well as their admins coming here to apologize for Zionism.

The problems with Feddit run much deeper than a few communities being run by Zionist apologists. They run as deep as the management of the site itself. So blocking these communities isn’t enough. I believe more will spring up in the future, not necessarily to replace them but because their userbase is predominantly Zionists or Zionist apologists.

They are bad news, we don’t need them, and they clearly don’t want us. Their admin agreeing with a known Zionist troll and implying we wish to cause harm to Israeli citizens just further proves this:

Feddit is bad news, more than just a few communities there, if they don’t do serious work to change we shouldn’t be connected with them. If anyone here really wants to be a part of Feddit that badly, you can make an account there or a server that federates with it, likewise with any feddit user who wishes to be on dbzer0.

No. I have issues with how this is approached and communicated primarily, and if those are addressed maybe there is enough information to support. I’ll try to keep it brief:

1. There isn’t really any indication about what we hope to achieve with the community bans. What concrete improvements do we hope for and are we taking any steps to see if they are achieved? It reads to me like a LOT of words explaining why they are utter shit (no disagreement), but then doesn’t connect any further dots, seems to just imply “so clearly our users should not see those” or something.

2. Frankly it’s unclear to me why I see largely Flatworm proposing these lately, and little POV from the wider admin and mod team. It’s no shade to you Flat, I like the cut of your jib. But this is an anarchist instance, if we are proposing rules that impact all our users, I need to start seeing a lot more broad weigh-in from the other people doing the work to keep this place running.

Now for both of these there are charitable interpretations for why I’m not seeing what I think I should. But I’m not willing to guess on that and shouldn’t have to. This is frankly a totally insufficient basis, as written, for governance action. As written, I say absolutely not.

Leave my feed and default interactions alone please unless we are going to see better and wider justification.

Defed them entirely, we don’t need to allow a ZioNazi bar here.

If the admins of this instance think there are clear zionist apologia, and have proof of said zionist apologia, then I will leave it to them to do what is best. I am anti-zionist, but haven’t seen these issues with my own eyes in real time.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention, and hopefully, Feddit can fix the issues described here, but like Flatworm, I don’t think it will happen. I don’t like defederation, but as a real last resort, I trust in the admins here at db0.

voting to defed the instance, we should not tolerate any instance that actively chooses to harbor fascists, and the admins seem to largely agree with the decisions the mods of these oomms made.

Actually with their response to this being even more Zionazi bullshit, can we please just defed?

Yeah ditch em. No space for folks like that.

NZS FCK OFF

ZIOS FCK OFF