- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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Lol, already deleted my account.
They can get fucked.
Yep. Its wasn’t even a question
Same here. Deleted and not going back.
They’re delaying it by six months. They’re banking on this blowing over by then. Fuck discord.
Let’s hope this gives competitors more time to get things setup well.
Was about to say this, how nice of discord to give people time to migrate to another service
The thing that’s insane to me is that most of the alternatives have screen sharing with working audio on the back burner, while I can tell you that the first one to get it working will be my go to. Hopefully with this extra cushion, one of them can get it working it’s the only thing discord has over its competitors other than general stability related things.
Fluxer has screen sharing with audio.
Audio hasn’t worked for me or my friends across Linux or Windows. Been kind of a pain.
It also seems to suffer the XWayland issue in Linux that Discord did for quite some time where it just flat out fails to get screen capture in the desktop app, but works in the browser. Electron pains
element call has screen sharing with audio. afaik joining a call does not even require registration, but that could depend on the server
If that is the video conferencing in the desktop then I can tell you that that has not been my experience with it both on windows and w/ Wayland
it depends. I don’t know if Element desktop uses it already, but a few months ago I have seen in the matrix live streams that they are already using it for team communication
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVFkW-chclhuyYRbmmfwt6w
but it also depends on whether your homeserver operators has set up a working element call/matrixrtc stack for it. if not, the apps will definitely use the old video conferencing implementation
This is my take. Fluxer and Root are the top two for my group, but they need more time in the oven(hell, everything does).
So far I’ve uninstalled discord on my devices and I’m using it via the web browser only in a container tab, until my group switches over to something else.
Can’t fucking wait to delete my account.
Matrix seems pretty mature, and has screen sharing with audio?
Matrix the protocol, yeah, is fine. The clients? Only Element Classic seems to work decently on Android, the newer one sucks. The other half dozen clients are atrocious. On desktop Element is fine, but I was experiencing extreme latency, however that was during the initial “rush” to find a Discord alternative a week or so ago.
But, my biggest gripe is trying to explain what Matrix is to other people. Then have to explain what federation is, then the fediverse. Then I get dumb questions of “Why do I need to create a Matrix account to use Element? Can’t I just use a Element account?” which either means they didn’t understand my previous explanation or they weren’t paying attention.
With Fluxer or Root or whatever, I can say “Go make an account on Fluxer.app and then go use the web version until the app is released” and everyone understands that just fine.
its best to just tell them about Element, and leave the Matrix name out. the curious ones will find it out.
Then I get dumb questions of “Why do I need to create a Matrix account to use Element? Can’t I just use a Element account?”
this could work: “when you want to try a different client than Element, you can use the same login for that too”
Yeah, I’ll have to work on my explanation there as well.
As I understand it, Matrix is a standard for doing Discord-like things (and other stuff as well, but never mind that), but it’s also an organization that hosts a service that follows that standard - you can make an account there, and use whatever client you like to join servers and do Discord-like things.
But anyone could host such a service, or make such clients, so a big tech firm could never fully own Matrix - in the same way that they can never fully own email.
Sound right?
I cancelled my nitro when it was announced they were doing this shady crap and it’s staying cancelled until there is credible assurances they won’t be handing over personal data to the like so palantir and other related goons.
The only way you should trust them, or anyone else, is if they don’t collect your personal data at all. There is absolutely no way I’d trust any website or service with information like what they want. All of these laws are explicitly designed to create a digital profile of every person so they can track what you do. It can’t be done ethically because it isn’t supposed to be done ethically.
Same thing happened in 2021-ish when WhatsApp changed their policy that all your information would be shared with Facebook. Outrage pushed it back six months, and then they did it anyway.
this is the second time they have “delayed” the age verification
So this, but Discord.
This is SO GOOD
Delays
not cancels, rolls back, stops or retracts. Delay is just doing something later than expected. This will not bring people back or change their minds.
Absolutely
Even if it was “cancel” that would just be a slightly longer delay.
That’s just gives Fluxer more time to prepare for the switch 👍
That’s what my community is doing. We’re going to move to Matrix just to be rid of Discord and then seeing what we want to do next.
Matrix seems to be filling the role of discord for me. I’ve noticed element’s client is lighter on system resources then discord
Programmers with thigh-high striped socks should still take one for the team and work on Fluxer. Seriously!
Alright, stoat or revolt or anyone else, you’ve got 6 months. I’ll move my group over in 6 months and donate to the best solution. Thanks everyone for pushing back against discord, to the indie devs who are working on alternatives, and to the self-hosting community for making it possible for me to even plan to move off of discord.
And why not to give Matrix a chance? Stoat (named Revolt before), Fluxer or anything else that is centralised is going to end up doing the same.
Fluxer isn’t entirely centralized. It has self hosting support.
It’s quasi centralized pretty much the same as matrix.
You can just opt to not use the central server for hosting services.
What?
I don’t think you know what centralization/decentralization means.
On matrix, you scan spin up a server/instance and communicate with any other matrix server/instance. On Fluxer, if you self-host, and your friend also self-hosts, your instance/server cannot communicate with your friend’s instance/server. You would have to create an account on your friend’s instance/server and vice-versa. You would also, probably, have to be running two clients in order to chat in both servers/instances.
Because the user experience of Matrix is poor and not currently a sufficient Discord replacement.
Because from what I can tell Matrix isn’t a good Discord replacement. I’ll spin up a server just to trial it, but every person I’ve talked to who isn’t already on Matrix and every thing I’ve seen or read says it’s not a discord replacement, it’s just a chat app.
Stoat and Fluxer can be self-hosted which is my main desire. Something fully under my control, with my data security, that won’t rely on another service to keep it running (although naturally I rely on the code base being maintained, hence donating as if it was a paid product).
You can self-host Matrix without federating, but it’s the best part about it. There is still work to be done about video calls, screen sharing and such in different Matrix clients but it is being work on. Try for example CommetChat as it’s the closest to Discord.
Too late biiiiiiiiiitch we already had our exodus.
Where’d we go though? Which place with the streaming and chatting?
XMPP with their myriad of gnu-ified clients.
I’ve been using Matrix for about a decade. Federated, encrypted chats and rooms (optional), supports video, self hostable, fully open source.
“Too late” isn’t even relevant anyway, they’re still doing it, so everyone should still be leaving.
Delaying in hopes that people forget
The only credible alternative to discord right now that is also free and open source and not completely reliant on venture capital and traditional economics in general is Fluxer.app - The app in itself is extremely promising and provides an almost 1:1 clone to discord with a few nice additions such as federation (which is still not available but in course of making). Unfortunately it is still under maintenance right now but I am willing to wait a little to be able to use something that respects me as a user and human being instead of being milked to death for my data to be taken by big evil corps who’re actively working to suppress our freedom. It is the only financially sustainable and therefore credible FLOSS alternative to Discord right now. Also, about the controversies of the CLA, Hampus (dev of Fluxer) has completely removed it stating that it was just a loophole to use if fluxer didn’t take off in the open source community. If course Fluxer eventually did take off and of course the CLA got removed
I won’t delete my discord account because sometimes I also wanna chat with friends who still play on console but I won’t chat on it again and I will definitely wipe out all of my chat history and leave all servers I’ve been, sooner or later
I wiped all messages too, because it feels good, but in reality I think you actually don’t need to bother as they have already scraped everything and all it does is that other users won’t see them.
Well of course discord users are pissed off they have to upload their ID. Now their discord kittens will know how old they actually are.
As much I agree with the idea of abandoning Discord - honestly, fuck 'em - I just don’t know how I or many other people could practically make the full switch… While I might be able to convince a few of my close friends to go with me to whatever new platform comes about, there’s just no way any larger communities would be able to uproot and leave without losing 90%+ of their members, and that’s only if the owners of those communities are even willing to leave in the first place. Inertia is a powerful thing, and the reality of the situation is that the vast majority of Discord users will not be convinced to leave over this.
I want to defend my privacy, and I want to tell these corporate ghouls to shove it, but at the same time, I don’t want to become a digital hermit. Having to decide between protecting my privacy and cutting myself off from so many valued social connections and communities feels like an impossible choice.
I know I’m not saying anything particularly new or actionable here, I’m just… tired. I’m tired of having to flee from platform after platform into increasingly smaller and more insular corners of the internet to escape the endless cycle of enshittification. I’m tired of what the internet has become, where the only places left where you can exist without being manipulated and exploited by corporate interests are a handful of small, decentralized platforms that are becoming increasingly cut off from the internet at large. I’m just tired of this shit, man.
I feel like this article was written for you, based on your last paragraph (the author definitely relates).
Thanks, this article was great. I guess I’ll finally check out XMPP, cause Matrix was… really mid when I tried it a few months ago and put me off. SimpleX was a mess too.
Side note, I get that the movim UI/Client is web only, but does that mean I can’t access Conversations.im (I know the app/client itself is Android only) on movim? I feel a little ashamed that I can’t understand this…
I feel a little ashamed that I can’t understand this…
Nothin’ to be ashamed of, we’re all newbies to this at first. I had to learn it too :p
Part 1: How XMPP servers differ from XMPP Clients
Okay, so: Movim and Conversations are both clients that can be used to login to any XMPP account. Those two clients in particular are a little bit more confusing than normal, because they also offer free XMPP accounts on their own XMPP servers (which are independent of the client software).
To try to liken it to something familiar, it’d be like if the Thunderbird email client (which you can login to any email account with) also happened to offer a separate email hosting service too, so you could login to your SomeReallyCoolUsername@thunderbird[.]com from the Thunderbird app.
Or to liken it to how lemmy works, if you’re familiar with the Photon front-end, it can access any lemmy account, even your blahaj account, as it’s just an independent front-end, it’s not actually hosting the lemmy server itself.
Part 2: How it works in practice
So in practice, if you create an XMPP account on Movim’s server, you can login into that same account right from your Conversations App too. The same would apply if you’d created an XMPP account on the Conversations server; you could login to it right from the Movim client.
One client can also communicate with any other. Let’s say you had a friend using the Conversations client, and you were on the Movim client; you could talk to each other no problem through text, or even call each other 1 on 1 with audio or video.
Part 3: The complication :(
But, bit of extra complication; the Conversations client hasn’t yet implemented some of the features Movim is capable of. Specifically, it cannot yet do group audio/video calls or screenshare. So if you’re in a chat room with your friends, and everyone is on Movim except for one friend (who’s using the conversations client on their phone), if you started a group call, that one friend won’t be able to join it.
However (‘But’ part 2); that limitation would only crop up if someone is using the Conversations client/mobile app itself.
If that same friend happened to have a Conversations XMPP account, they could still open Movim in a browser tab on their PC or phone and login to the Movim client with their Conversations account, and then would be able to join the call no problem.
And that’s it! :D
Sorry if I didn’t do the best job explaining that. I’m very much looking forward to the day when Conversations gets those missing features and I only need to explain the first part about how clients and XMPP accounts are separate 😅
Thank you for the wonderful response! I figured it was kinda like Fediverse, but I was lost if the difference in features caused issues with where your account was made. I made an account on conversations.im and now use Movim on browser and Conversations (from F-droid) on my phone. I need to start finding communities!
Glad to hear you’re all set up ^^
If you’re interested in Solarpunk, my instance’s sysadmin hosts solarpunk@chat.slrpnk.net on XMPP, and there’s a cool little DIY project community at craftmanship@muc.loqi.im :)
But a true easy to use discord alternative is still not there.
The matrix protocol is actually easy to use, it just takes a bit of effort to get into. Once you’re in, then it’s as easy as Discord, I haven’t had any issues and it’s been a great learning experience. https://joinmatrix.org/
This is bullshit. I’m sorry. I’ve tried signing up on like three servers with Element Classic and Element X and all of them fail. Maybe I’ve just gotten incredibly unlucky with the instances I’ve picked, but it’s been a much tougher time than joining Lemmy was.
I have an old matrix.org account I can use, but it’s asking me to get something from a currently logged in session, which I don’t have any. I saved all the files and phrases it asked me to when I joined originally, but it isn’t enough. There’s a possibility I missed one, but the fact that I do have a file and phrase saved in my password manager is evidence I was saving what it asked me to.
If worst comes to worst I can just use matrix.org, but I know that Matrix’s “federated but de facto centralized” problem is much worse than Lemmy’s (lemmy.world is big but not a majority, but I think a majority of people use matrix.org) and I’m trying to help fix that.
It’s just frustrating. I want Matrix to be the Discord replacement but it’s a pain in the ass currently. And Discord is so many things to do many people. It’s voice for some, streaming for some, and for a lot it’s the fact that it’s DMs, rooms, servers, voice, and streaming all in one and with a very large user base. Matrix, to my knowledge, is only rooms, servers (or more properly spaces in Matrix, since they have real servers), and DMs. Back when I used it more frequently it wasn’t super active. Especially for really niche activities. And don’t even get me started on the state of NSFW matrix, I went down that rabbit hole and one of the top results was MAP stuff (pedophiles). There’s also just a huge amount of furry stuff, which isn’t inherently a problem, but when it seems like there’s dozens of NSFW furry rooms and a top result on search is talking about which servers and rooms are sympathetic to pedophiles and the folks most likely to be leaving Discord are the ones who were doing NSFW things because that’s what’s actually age restricted I can’t really evangelize Matrix as a good replacement.
This sort of turned into more of a rant than I intended. It’s just frustrating.
(Edit: Also, to be clear, I’m not saying it’s Matrix’s fault pedophile apologists use it or that it’s a top result, I’m just expressing frustration with the situation.)
there are “spaces” now which is a collection of rooms, which is a pretty good analogue for discord “servers”
I may not have been clear, I just meant that “Discord servers” are not “servers” in the way the word is actually used (meaning a computer) and that Matrix instances actually are real “servers”. But yeah, spaces are like Discord servers.
Matrix, to my knowledge, is only chats, servers (or more properly rooms in Matrix, since they have real servers), and DMs.
I was responding to this
wdym there’s been good alternatives to Discord for decades.
This is just not true at all, only recently have alternatives started to spring up that even get close to the number of features and level of polish that discord has (note, discord still has plenty of issues, I’m not saying its perfect)
Easy buttons cost money. Free takes some work.
I don’t know man, deal with it
OK? I was just commenting on the state of the situation, there’s nothing to “deal with”?
TeamSpeak 6 and Stoat? Didn’t use the second one.
ts6 has poor Linux support currently.
Hopefully it’s improved soon.
It hasn’t improved in two years. It’s not going to. Teamspeak developers are slower than Wayland’s.
Fluxer exists and is a near 1:1 drop in replacement.
It’s current only real problem is the servers are overloaded. But it has a self host option to bypass that very problem.
A bigger problem than a technical alternative is convincing all of your friends to switch.
There are multiple other programs that fill a similar niche, but I don’t know I’ll be able to get everyone I know to change over.
I definitely will discontinue using Discord if they deploy this surveillance state bullshit, but a little bit sad over the number of gaming buddies I’ll lose contact with in the process.
If they choose not to switch, then that’s on them. Eventually enough people will start migrating that stragglers will also start to follow.
Waiting for a C&D from Discord. I’m avoiding on that premise alone.
?
It’s developed by a previous discord developer and looks exactly like Discord. Only a matter of time before they shut it down if it gains enough traction.
Its developed by a kid out of uni and discord doesnt own the UI style.
They make profit off of that UI style and that’s all that really matters. Only a matter of time as I said.
Yeah, this is FUD. Not even Microsoft could patent an interface.
good because i heard there isnt a good alternative to discord.
Perfect 1:1 drop in hassle free replacement with the exact same feature set? No, there isn’t.
Viable alternatives that aren’t too bad to learn? There are many.
fluxer is 95% a drop in. Its just dealing with stablity issues due to the massive influx of users.
Oooh. Thanks for the tip! I just tested it and it’s great, other than being slow which is understandable. Is it internet searchable? Or a walled garden?
I don’t know if any of them aren’t walled gardens. Everybody seems to be taking their design cues from Discord.
It would be nice to have a setting making the server public or private, and then search engines could crawl public servers (such as tech support groups).
Thanks for your response. It’s a shame this is a trend but perhaps fluxer will add that feature or it can be formed with one
I agree, but one of my friends told me the above.
Matrix is pretty good due to e2ee.Matrix is cool but it is definitely not an alternative to discord. Also, matrix is a protocol and not a platform! Element for example, is based on matrix but element is NOT matrix. Anyways it is not ready for prime time unfortunately and the main instance matrix.org has, uhm, questionable privacy policies
I see, also nice detailed explanation.
Delays…
Until the bad press dies down. Fuck’em.
