It’s been a stereotype for at least the last 50 years. Why has this never changed? Why has organized labor not had a substantial effect for such an essential part of the workforce?

  • Jack@lemmy.ca
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    22 hours ago

    From your point-of-view, the Democrats winning is good, and the Republicans winning is bad. You might see them on a left-right scale of 0-10, where 0 is good, the Ds are at 3, the Rs at 9, and Hitler at 10.

    Some other people see a bigger window than that: look at https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020 and compare how these people see the distance between Trump +9+9 and Biden +7+6, compared to the distance between both and Hawkins -5-3. These people agree that the Rs are worse than the Ds, but they don’t want to help the Ds win because the Ds are mass-extinction causing capitalists. To convince these people to vote for the Ds instead of Greens/socialists/not-voting at all, you have to convince them that the Ds actions of:

    • making anthropogenic climate change worse and so causing a mass extinction,
    • helping genocides, and
    • propping up an economic system that rewards narcissistic psychopaths and punishes ethical people;

    are good, and worth voting for.

    • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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      22 hours ago

      Again, you ignore the actual facts.

      Maybe you live in a world of privilege where things like schools, roads, hospitals, and wars are merely theoretical. We who actually have to deal with those things know differently.

      Nowhere do you link to a 3rd Party that has any realistic chance of making any change anytime soon.

      Quick historical note. Look up a fellow named Frederick Douglas. He was a former slave. In 1860 he had the choice of supporting a full on pro-Abolition candidate who had almost no chance of winning or supporting a candidate who had stated he wasn’t prepared to end slavery.

      Douglas figured it made more sense to support a winner and have a foot in the door. He abandoned the Abolition candidate and backed the winner instead.

      So, when you reply, please explain why people shouldn’t follow Douglas’s lead and back the imperfect candidate who might win over the ‘pure’ candidate who is sure to lose.

      • MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world
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        20 hours ago

        If you want to fight, you have to be prepared to lose.

        It was no accident that Rosa Parks chose that particular seat on that particular day. Everyone that came before her had lost that same battle. Black folks (and the white folks who supported them) were thrown in jail for violating segregationist laws. But with each battle, knowledge and support was gained.

        There’s a line in the recent Fallout series that really sticks out to me. A “do good” congresswoman is trying to get an audience with the president. She is roughly shoved aside by security. Our hero helps her up and she says to him, “Fighting the good fight is mostly a series of humiliations”.

        I think about that a lot. It’s exactly like that, because fighting the good fight mostly happens when you are alone and outnumbered. Otherwise, you’re just in an echo chamber.

        • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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          19 hours ago

          So, apparently you don’t care how many people suffer and die so you can claim a moral victory.

          If that’s not the voice of privilege I don’t know what it.

          And I don’t want to fight. I’d much rather find an acceptable compromise and be able to make gains afterwards [like Frederick Douglas did when he backed Lincoln over the Abolition candidate.]

          If you feel the need to be a martyr, go ahead. Don’t drag other people down with you.

          • MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world
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            18 hours ago

            There is no final victory. Ever. Not even an imaginary moral victory.

            There is only and has only ever been the fight.

            It’s human nature.

            Case in point: The tone of your comment above is combative and accusatory, rather than friendly or neutral. Why?

            • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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              18 hours ago

              If you want to fight, you have to be prepared to lose.

              Your words.

              You are the one with the idea that it has to be a fight.

              Like I said, it’s better to compromise and take small victories instead of push for a heroic resolution.

              And, unless you feel like answering the question I posed* before, don’t bother to answer.

              *I asked why we should do as Frederick Douglas did, supporting imperfect candidates who might be persuaded in the future, over ‘perfect’ candidates with no chance of winning?

              • MerryJaneDoe@lemmy.world
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                17 hours ago

                Let’s review:

                1. You don’t believe in fighting, you’d rather comprise
                2. The relationship of Douglass and Lincoln exemplifies this type of compromise

                AND yet…it all led to the Civil War. Which was necessary to stop the selling human beings for profit.

                So, yes, if you look at the relationship between the two political entities involved, a compromise was reached. But that compromise was worthless in preventing violence.

                Violence was always inevitable. It started with violence toward Africans - kidnapping and slavery. The only way to end it was more violence - a bloody, vicious civil war. This is the human condition.

                • DagwoodIII@piefed.social
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                  6 hours ago

                  More blither-blather.

                  You’ve gone from saying “If you want to fight, you have to be prepared to lose,” tp saying “Violence was always inevitable.”

                  I guess you can always win an argument if you get to change your terms from minute to minute.

                  It was mildly amusing, but I’m done watching you chase your own tail.