There’s been quite a bit of…unsettlement (totally a word) regarding the news that Discord has a new CEO and the company is going public (typically a sign of things going shittier than before).

I’d just like to re-post this which I shared some time ago, if you’ll indulge me in my rare post which isn’t a Steam Deck / Gaming News # post - a rarity for me.

In the end, this is not the be-all-and-end-all alternative, it won’t be for everyone. Matrix exists of course. But this is a nice place. And I thought considering recent events I’d recommend it regardless!

Following is just a copy of what I posted last time. It’s mostly Linux chat, gaming, handhelds (like the Steam Deck), movies and…general chats. Anyway, here’s the post:


So…this one is a bit left-of-field.

A friend of mine (Gardiner Bryant of YouTube - who reports on Linux and the Steam Deck) has started a Revolt server.

What is Revolt?

It’s kinda like a FOSS alternative to Discord. You’ll see the layout is almost a direct copy, and it’s far less polished…but then again you haven’t got the downsides of Discord’s constant upselling either:

https://revolt.chat/

Why is this relevant?

…I can hear you ask? Well, so far its just a few developers and creators in there, but I thought of all spaces…maybe those very devs and creators whose work you use and watch…well it might be nice to join in there?

My personal friends who are in here so far are:

What is the damn link to the damn server, woman?

https://rvlt.gg/dqJT3rJH

I mean, you will have to make an account on Revolt, but it might be interesting to some here. You’re all very welcome!

  • thorhop@sopuli.xyz
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    3 months ago

    Saying that the client is FOSS, but the server is proprietary, I like saying you have a chastity belt - with a ventilation hole in the back.

    You finna get effed in the a.

  • Lazorne@lemmy.zip
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    3 months ago

    For the record RetroDECK also got Matrix instance as well. But Revolt have so far been more active then Matrix (even tho we had that one for a long time).

    But I do agree with that Discord is not a replacement for forums. You should not use Discord as your primary information hub.

    For us our own wiki is the master of information. If something relevant is said in Revolt / Discord / Matrix we will add it to the wiki, people should not need to register various accounts to access the information.

    Github is also where we handle “real” issues, while Discord / Matrix / Revolt is helpful for community members helping other with minor issues or general banter.

    One reason why forums died out was the need for direct engagement and a sense of active community belonging, that they simply did not offer.

    We also did not create all of these spaces from the beginning. Some community members did it, like the subreddit. Then you have a choice either you create it and own it, or a fan will.

  • x00z@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    Revolt to Discord is what BlueSky is to Twitter.

    Just another continuation that can (and will) enshittify.

    • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Well, once the service becomes large and popular we could try to find people interested in investing into the platform, then we just need to make sure it stays interesting to more and more investors over time. Should be sustainable, sounds oddly familiar tho but i definitely just made it up rn on my own

    • PerfectDark@lemmy.worldOP
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      3 months ago

      I got distracted when I started inviting people I know into the server, so…there will be more to come!

    • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      I think all you can do in an open group chat is use vpn/tor/anonymous email. Besides private messages, but then the server can be forced to disclose the metadata.

    • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
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      3 months ago

      Does matrix have multiple chat channels per server / community yet? Last I asked they didn’t understand my question. Basically matrix just isn’t meant to be a replacement for discord.

      • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
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        3 months ago

        It does have that.

        A “server” in Matrix is a space. A chat channel is called a room. A space can hold as many rooms as you want.

        Fun fact, unlike Discord, a space can even hold other spaces in it!

        • LarmyOfLone@lemm.ee
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          3 months ago

          But as far as I can remember, you can’t administer the rooms in a space as one. Like you need to be invited into each separate room.

          Not saying that you couldn’t add that, I’m saying they don’t seem to want to “do what discord did”. Which is a bummer since the success of discord clearly shows what would be needed.

          PS: It’s fine to do that as a UX design choice, more like IRC. But the issue is that people like you (no offense) say it’s the same when it isn’t. Like not even understanding what the problem is.

          • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
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            3 months ago

            But as far as I can remember, you can’t administer the rooms in a space as one. Like you need to be invited into each separate room.

            Nope, again - I don’t understand who told you this. When you’re creating a room in Matrix you can make it either public, invite only, or only joinable via membership in a specific space.

            Here’s a screenshot of the room security interface:

            Not saying that you couldn’t add that, I’m saying they don’t seem to want to “do what discord did”. Which is a bummer since the success of discord clearly shows what would be needed.

            You are correct in that they “don’t want to do what discord this”: recently (and you can see this in their apps like EleX) they’ve transitioned to looking and acting more like modern mobile chat apps like Signal/WhatsApp/Telegram - a decision I’m assuming they’ve made as most of their funding comes from people who want a replacement for those apps and not Discord.

            Regardless, just using a Discord-like client (e.g. Commet) is enough to get the experience you want.

    • Jyek@sh.itjust.works
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      3 months ago

      Revolt isn’t new. Matrix and revolt are around the same age and are both not even feature competitive with Discord. So until there is a fully featured truly open alternative to discord, there will be still others trying to take discord’s audience.

  • nek0d3r@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    3 months ago

    In addition to the mentions that this isn’t encrypted, doesn’t have video chat, etc, it’s also difficult to set up with little documentation and an enormous tech stack. They also had some recent controversy about open source licensing that gives me a bit of worry. I decided to go with a self-hosted synapse server.

  • zanyllama52@infosec.pub
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    3 months ago

    I will continue using element, signal, and simple x instead. They have all the security and privacy features this product doesn’t.

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    3 months ago

    I just went through this tree about a week ago. Downloaded the app for iOS to try it and would say it wasn’t ready for mainstream. It looks very similar to discord but it just consistently would crash or send me back to the website in order to get anything done. Even the main channel for Revolt would hang and not load properly. That and iOS is on TestFlight… not gonna work well for non tech enthusiasts who know how about it. That

    I have a small server on Discord and would love to move it. But the people on it aren’t super tech savvy and the replacement will need to work. Plus, I have less desire to go from one centralized service to another, especially when the backup doesn’t work well. Wish Element would get it together with the phone app and make spaces appear as they do on the computer. That and stable call/video channels.

    It would be nice to see a capable app built on matrix platform. Or just another capable platform that has a well working app. Just my two cents.

    • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
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      3 months ago

      SchildiChat Next is a mini-fork of Element X with proper spaces support (and some other nice UI additions).

      I say mini-fork as it’s basically just EleX with some UI patches - so it follows EleX actively.

      • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Aaaaand this touches on the problem with matrix in general, no standard is properly followed, way too many forks with feature support all over the place

        • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
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          3 months ago

          There’s only one standard, it has no forks. The discussion is about a filtering feature.

          A lot of people don’t seem to respect spaces and communities - from my perspective it looks like the devs are currently pivoting to make the official client look and act more like Telegram/Signal/WhatsApp than Discord/IRC.

          Your issue is that the dev team of EleX not prioritizing a feature you want.

          If anything, this is a strength of an open source ecosystem: someone who agrees with you was able to, months ago, setup a fork that appeals to your work flow.

          Try that with Discord, next time!

          • LordKitsuna@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            There is a single standard with no forks, I said not a single one followed. I run my own Matrix Home Server and use it frequently, there are a lot of different clients and there are a good number of them that do run their own features that are not exactly in Spec because one does not yet exist in the official spec. Stickers used to be a good example of that I remember when there were like three different clients Each of which implemented them in a different weird way until the spec finally landed on an implementation.

            And even within this back there are some basic features not supported on certain clients and other such problems. I’m just saying it’s not an alternative to Discord and it will never be mainstream because it’s too confusing and frustrating from the perspective of a standard user.

            Same concept that made bluesky get popular over mastodon, trying to find anything on Mastodon of interest is a chore because there’s no real Central spot to do everything the very nature of it is that it’s scattered to the winds, there’s also multiple apps available for Mobile on Mastodon Each of which have different layouts, different features, and normal people that just want to be able to find their topic of Interest can’t be bothered to deal with that

            • Derin@lemmy.beru.co
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              3 months ago

              Yeah, all good points - especially the stuff relating to stickers (also, custom emojis).

              Still, I’m hoping element gets their shit together and improves the default element apps (also brings Web/Desktop up to par with Mobile).

        • omnioki@sh.itjust.works
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          3 months ago

          sure, it’s nuanced, but imho there’s a difference between actively helping and propping up vs providing free software. when you have active contracts with entities that discriminate, it becomes a different ethical stance than simply building FOSS.

          • fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com
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            3 months ago

            Thats fair, but simly using FOSS software doesn’t support the cause of the developers/creators. I mean, look at Lemmy.

            • omnioki@sh.itjust.works
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              3 months ago

              yeah i can understand that viewpoint, and for all the matrix users i hope that remains true. maybe i’m just jaded, but i’ve been around long enough to know that just because a company isn’t a complete pile of shit now doesn’t mean they won’t be in the future—ESPECIALLY when you can see the company they keep (and defend).

      • papertowels@mander.xyz
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        3 months ago

        I just want to make sure you notice it says “encrypted messaging” meaning matrix as a service, as opposed to “encrypted messages”, meaning selling your messages.

      • tekato@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Just in: Orange farmers are part of the police state because they sell oranges to the government, including policemen.

        • omnioki@sh.itjust.works
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          3 months ago

          there’s a subtle difference, but if i’m following your logic, then weapons manufacturers have no moral/ethical responsibility for enabling war to happen? if you made a knife—harmless on its own, and then gave the knife to a murderer who then killed someone with it, are you not enabling?

  • Agent Karyo@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    I really hope indie gamedevs start moving off Discord. Sometimes it’s the only source for finding help or reporting bugs.

    • ulterno@programming.dev
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      3 months ago

      I normally like GitLab issues as a place for bug reports.

      A FAQ and an old style forum works pretty well for help.
      In fact, just make a community on Lemmy for the forum part and you’ll have what’s required.

      GitHub also has this new “Discussions” thing which should do some good, for those that want to stay on GitHub

    • mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      Yeah, and it’s doubly infuriating because Discord is not a good replacement for support forums. It isn’t searchable via search engines, and even the built in search is fucking dog water.

      Let’s say I have an error, so I google “{Program} {Error code} Solved”. With a forum, I would find a thread that is already talking about the specific error, with comments regarding troubleshooting steps or a solution… But with Discord, all I get is a generic link to the program’s server.

      And even once I’m in the server, there often isn’t a good way for me to find existing threads about my specific error. Maybe I check the pinned messages, but some servers have dozens of channels; am I expected to check the pins on every single channel? Oftentimes that seems to be the expectation, because asking a question will often just get a “check the pinned messages, ya thud-fuck” type of response.

      Or maybe I search it, but (again) am I expected to search every single channel? And since Discord doesn’t use fuzzed searches, searching for “Error code 0x00548327” won’t return any results if the thread simply uses “Error 548327” instead. With Google (or any half-decent search engine, really) you get results for both. But not with Discord.

      So instead, I ask in the support channel. And that leads me to my final gripe… My response takes actual effort from another person in order to solve. Maybe I get lucky and they have a bot set up to respond to a keyword/error number in my comment… But if not, or if I didn’t use the specific keyword that the bot was searching for, then I need to rely on other people. If there are 200 people with the same issue, that’s 200 times that someone needs to respond to what is essentially the same message. With a forum, you could simply find the post, and read the responses. No human interaction necessary, because it has already been done. The question and answer process has already happened. But with Discord, I’m forced to wait on someone to actually respond, and the devs/admins actually need to dedicate time and resources to ensuring it gets answered. That constant vigilance takes a lot more time and effort away from actual mod duties.

      • Agent Karyo@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        It’s a comically bad experience.

        I get it that it’s probably easier to setup a Discord server, than to run your own forum, but you can always get a managed solution or use reddit (I would prefer if Lemmy was used, but I am also realistic).

        • mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          3 months ago

          I’m actually against companies running their own subreddits, purely because I’m an old redditor who remembers when it was specifically disallowed by Reddit. The original intent was for the site to the run by the people, not by companies. Companies were actually prevented from moderating their own subs; the worry was that they would use their mod powers to suppress any sort of negative press or criticism, no matter how valid.

          For instance, maybe there’s a popular TV show. The company wasn’t allowed to have a hand in moderating the official fan sub for the show, because it was left up to the public. If the show did something unpopular, the broadcasting company shouldn’t have the ability to suppress the criticism about it.

          But Reddit has since done a complete 180 on that topic, and now goes out of their way to install corporate moderators. Subs are now run as an extension of the company’s marketing and/or PR departments

          • Agent Karyo@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Agreed. Just at this point I think it’s fair to say that this policy is definitely not in effect.