- cross-posted to:
- sysadmin@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- sysadmin@lemmy.world
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This is why KVM is a good option, or even Hyper-V for Windows hosts. The only problem with KVM Is graphical support for paravirtualized drivers is basic at best with no full 3D acceleration that I know of for Windows guests; virtio-win isn’t exactly the best option graphically and QXL to my knowledge is even more lacking, but one can just pass a hardware GPU through over vfio-pci for that.
Unfortunately for Mac hosts, Apple has no KVM/Hyper-V equivalent so your best option for virtualization there is Parallels.
(and it’s honestly kinda stupid that Apple can’t build their own KVM equivalent into the Darwin kernel which macOS is based on)
Proxmox is the way to go in businesses right now to replace Vmware
And virt-manager is pretty solid for hobbyist tinkering too.
Yeah I’d second that. It’s good for discovering valid settings as you get start, and then once you want to do more complicated stuff, the XML option view becomes useful, and then if you want to try on CLI after all you can start using virsh to administer the same VMs.
At least that’s how I progressed through the stages as I started messing with a Windows VM for a game that doesn’t lend itself to hosting on Linux natively.
Our move to XCP-ng Hypervisors with XOA has been a great experience.
I would argue for Apache Cloudstack personally.
Though I have used and like Proxmox as well.
There is a KVM equivalent on MacOS, Apple’s Hypervisor virtualization framework.
KVM is just the kernel side, you need QEMU (for example) on userland. On MacOS you have now UTM.
I didn’t even know that was a thing. Cool!
I stupidly bought a VMWare Workstation license when I first got on the Windows 11 train. Bright eyed and bushy tailed and all that rubbish. My experience was such shit that I abandoned it all for Linux and Virtualbox.
Fuck Microsoft, fuck VMWare.
I was a happy camper with Hyper-V on server operating systems, was always a PITA on desktop versions though. Wonder if that’s changed. (Doubt.)
qemu ftw.
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Very surprised that this is the only comment in this thread mentioning Nutanix.
A move this dumb will totally work out in thier favor. /S
They’re trying to kill it. Anything they can squeeze out of existing customers in the meantime is just gravy.
That seems unlikely to persuade those people to continue using VMware, but good luck with that business strat Broadcom.
The strategy, from day-1, was to dump low-tier customers and squeeze the big dogs. They knew this wasn’t a viable long-term plan. Broadcom knew they had captive customers in the large enterprise space who would take years to migrate. They want to rape all they can, cash out and kill the product someday. But hey! As long as they can squeeze, they will do so.
I mean, fuck me, Oracle is still in business and that’s the model Broadcom is going for.
Yeah. Let’s not get started on fucking Oracle. We’ll be here all day. Or year, possibly.
Broadcom is doing an excellent job convincing their customers to stop using VMware. Such a good job that at Red Hat we’ve shifted strategies with OpenShift Virtualization to pick up those customers. For the longest time our Virt play was just a stop gap to containers, now it’s a full blown product.
Kudos! I wish you the best of luck and hope for your success.
Did Fraudcom hire Prenda Law or something?
Remember:
There’s no such thing as a perpetual license, there’s only “until we change our mind” licenses
At this point, why would anyone do business with broadcom at all?
Because they make all the cheap ethernet chips that go on motherboards.
Other than that, can’t think of a good reason.
We told them to go fuck themselves. We retain lawyer specifically in case we have legal concerns, and the way we use their products, price jack up would be so extreme that it’s entirely worth risking it while we migrate away.
The not owning anything is ridiculous. We need clear regulation that makes it so companies cant do bullcrap like this. If I buy something, I own it, period.
100% agreed.
Here’s a relevant Louis Rossmann video where a US Senator (Ron Wyden) officially asked the FTC to look into issues like this. I sincerely hope something comes out of this.
Isn’t VMWare out of support anyway?
Not that I fault the users of it - a perpetual license is a perpetual licence and good luck with the C&D, but there are other options. Though I only know of OpenShift on RHEL.
Threatening to sue your customers is such a brilliant business move.
The RIAA special
It’s also the business model of Oracle I think and they are wildly successful.
Who are Oracle’s customers?
They have some very big military contracts
MBAs
The CIA
Project Oracle babyyyy
Anyone who uses Oracle DB or virtualbox in a corporate environment
I’m forced to work with Oracle databases, FML I hate it so much
Why? I get that the company is awful, but the database is quite good, isn’t it?
Not only is it worse than Postgres by almost every metric, they actively sue people who criticize it. I.e. even Hacker News took this post down: https://archive.is/ryseO
I think it had something to do with Broadcom wanting to go for a few big customers and don’t want to deal with the small fry anymore.
It’s a valid business strategy to kick your low-paying customers to the curb and focus on the big spenders. Did the same with my little PC business back in the day. The small fry cost shitloads to support and are generally more bitchy.
But HOLY shit did Broadcom kick 'em down. I’ve never seen such an in-your-face business move to squeeze the cash cow as hard as possible, tank the company, grab the money and run.
People can say, and have been from day-1, “I’ll never use their shit again!” That’s fine with Broadcom, it’s literally their plan.
Surely no competitors will grow in the small and medium business market to eventually be a competitor…
Broadcom knows they bought a dying platform. Their strategy is to isolate the customers incapable of ever migrating and charge them as close to near bankruptcy as possible. They’ll get their initial return on investment in under 5 years and then eventually just let VMware die because new businesses that are still nimble all moved to other platforms anyway. They’ll hit Lotto tickets with a few whales and keep 5-10 devs on to patch stuff for those whales and print 100-1000x return on costs in perpetuity.
Capitalism is the woooooorst…
That is … bleak.
I suspect you are correct.
RemindMe in 5 years
#I know that doesn’t work here(And that god that bot doesn’t work here)
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I think I’ve seen people using this on Lemmy, but I’m not sure if it works: https://fedi.tips/is-there-a-reminder-bot-for-mastodon-and-the-fediverse/
Especially those who are perfectly in the right legally and morally.
Right? That’s what encouraged me to sail the high seas.
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Man could you imagine what proxmox would be if that project got just a tenth of the money VMware got?
Classic prisoners dilemma. Nobody wants to invest in proxmox because not enough people invest in proxmox.
Everybody is moving to Openshift or public cloud
Openshift is a kubernetes platform isn’t it?
There’s still a need for real VMs, and I didn’t think openshift filled that.
There’s Openshift Virtualization included, which is based on the upstream kubevirt project. You’re essentially running VMs in containers and managing them (mostly) like the other container workloads in the environment.
Interesting…I’m using proxmox at home but running my containers in a VM. Looks like there’s an openshift community edition…I may have to check this out.
I’m not a sys admin by trade (networking), but my opinions at least have some weight where I work.
I imagine being redhat based, I could run FRR at the hypervisor level. For that matter being kubernetes I can use calico. Holy shit this could be awesome. I need to play.
Yeah, it’s a distro of kubernetes.
Most apps run best as a container, but for appliances and legacy apps they have Openshift virtualization which runs VMs in the cluster by running KVM inside of docker.
The open source tech there is called Kubevirt. All VMs are 1st class citizens in the kubernetes API, so it is actually easier to run than VMware/Proxmox if you already have a Kubernetes cluster and you’re not doing complex stuff with qcow images or VM migrations.
I use both containers and VMs a lot with Kubernetes at work.
Proxmox is already perfect (for my use case)
You should take a look at Canonical’s LXD. They’ve been investing in it pretty heavily and can definitely rival proxmox.
The web based UI is superb and I’ve never had issues with the CLI which is quite a contrast to my experience with proxmox
Except then you’d be stuck with Canonical.
Yeah…I rank Canonical roughly where Google was like 20 years ago. They’re still mostly good…but that’s highly likely to change.
Not really. Incus is a fork of LXD that’s carrying the torch for community focused containers.
Interesting. Reminds me of Emby and Jellyfin…
I still don’t like the decisions Canonical is making.
Or kick Canonical to the curb and use Incus instead: https://discuss.linuxcontainers.org/t/how-similar-is-incus-to-lxd/21430
Honestly I think if Proxmox got VMWare money then they’d become stuffed to the gills with business sharks and probably go the same route eventually.
That is not a Proxmox problem, that is a capitalism problem.
*Humanity problem.
There are some solutions invented, but they require work and revolutionary wars. And the functioning system, I think, will be as close to ancap as to Trotskyism. Won’t be clearly “socialist”.
No, this is not a humanity problem. This is a capitalism problem. Companies are not beholding to their customers, they are beholden to stock owners. It is no longer in their best interest to make customers happy, it’s in their best interest to provide ROI for their investors. Every software product hits a point of diminishing returns. There are no new amazing features to woo new customers, it is a mature product that only has incremental features. When this happens, you either flip to a subscription model and parasitize your user base, or sell to another vendor, management group, or some other entity who does it after you’ve been paid out. If we had better controls on mergers and buyouts there would be active competition to foster diversity and keep prices down, but when companies buy all their competition and all of the small companies who make products and enhancements for their base, it’s a lose lose situation for the end users. This is my jaded two cents after a quarter century of being in the IT/AEC field in the direct line of this enshittification process from multiple companies across the spectrum.
Companies are not beholding to their customers, they are beholden to stock owners.
I don’t think you realize how much of an improvement this is over other really existent options.
One can be a serf, or a slave, or a city dweller in a privilege-based society, or a peasant in some despotic kingdom. The list of options is long, none are good.
That’s a very eurocentric view. Most of the world outside of Europe and imperial Asia was communist or socialist tribes until Europe went and colonized everything. And they were doing pretty damn good at colonizing.
Remember the reason colonists conquered lands so easily was largely because they out-armed them. The tribes had no need for such advanced weapons until colonists arrived with them.
Most of the world outside of Europe and imperial Asia was communist or socialist tribes
Name one for this wild statement.
And they were doing pretty damn good at colonizing
That’s another aspect - building something and not getting overrun by those more considerate.
Suse has been trying pretty hard with Harvester. KVM-based, VMs-as-k8s-pods which leverages all existing k8s tooling, as well as the same multi-cluster federation as RKE2.
Seems pretty great from afar, though it’s very much under active development.
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Yes, that’s a more correct use of “prisoners dilemma:” a choice to either cooperate or defect. Origin below, for the curious.
The dilemma
Two prisoners are interrogated in separate rooms. Each is asked to snitch in exchange for a reduced sentence.
Because they’re separated, the prisoners can’t coordinate, but each knows the other is offered the same deal and the interrogator will only offer bargains that increase their combined years of imprisonment.
For example, “house wins” if snitch gets -2 years and snitchee gets +3 years, since interrogator would net +1 year from the deal.
So what will each prisoner do?
The result
Of course, the best outcome overall is for neither to snitch, and the worst is for both to snitch.
The Nobel-Prize-winning observation was that any prisoner faced with this dilemma (once) will always net a lesser sentence if they snitch than if they don’t, no matter what the other decides.
In other words, two perfect players of this game will always arrive at the worst result (assuming they only expect to play once). This principle came to be known as the Nash equilibrium.
Applications
The result above sounds bleak because it is, but real-world analogs of this game are rarely one-offs and thus entail trust, mutuality, etc.
For example, if the prisoners expect to play this game an indeterminate number of times, the strategy above nearly always loses (the optimal strategy, in case you’re wondering, is called “tit-for-tat” and entails simply doing whatever your opponent did last round).
The study of such logic problems and the strategies to solve them is called game theory.
Edit: fixed typo, added headings and links
I know people in that predicament and they’re, charitably, helpless little babies when you tell them to read two paragraphs of documentation on how to run one command in a Linux CLI.
Fundamentally nothing out there really caters to the needs of resellers. Your average resale company couldn’t automate a backup job to save itself from bankruptcy if it doesn’t come with a neat GUI, a 24/7 support contract, and preferably a Microsoft or oracle logo somewhere in the corner to inspire confidence.
Like I jest but there are Microsoft outfits and FOSS outfits and there is essentially zero professional overlap even though they both sell IT products/solutions. The disconnect is a mile wide. Which translates to wildly different business models where the FOSS people have been running shit in containers for 15 years while the Microsoft slaves are still licensing their monolithic solutions by the CPU Core and doing weird-ass shit like buy 4-core xeons because it’s more economical with these archaic licensing models.
So sure Proxmox/Suse are certainly very happy with their sales number right now but anecdotally I’m not seeing the migration frenzy that one would expect under such intense price gouging. Broadcom correctly identified that it will take years for these super corporate structures to steer away from “the way we’ve always done things” and in the meantime that’s untold millions in additional short-term profits.
Broadcom is where previously good softwares go to die.
Proxmox, Nutanix, Canonical and Incus must be quite happy with the new customers.
I really want to use Nutanix but they are the same price as VMware VCF and they don’t support my existing hardware so I’d have to buy all new servers, just to pay the same price.
Proxmox ftw
Proxmox is amazing.
At first, I thought the products you were listing were “good softwares going to die”. I was like “wut. Proxmox is fucking epic.”
Sounds like a them problem if their software won’t refuse to update without an active contract. If it keeps working and being able to be updated then it’s on them.
That’s the thing, it doesn’t do updates. This is just to scare people into paying.
The article says the letter demanded they uninstall updates to the point before their contract ended.
It also says this same letter has been going out to users days after their contracts expired, regardless of whether any updates had been installed and even if the user had migrated to another service.
Exactly, if their software keeps working and allowing updates and they don’t know what the end user is doing then it’s a them problem. If they didn’t bake in telemetrics to know what version each license key is using then it’s on them.
They probably have a good cease and desist on Broadcomm for automatically installing updates on their system against the contract.
