I’m pretty sure this is the same guy who was ranting about Godot “being woke” last year lol
Wait, did PirateSoftware rant about wokeness, or are you confusing him with fellow failed game dev Grummz?
What has this Pirate Software released? I’m not familiar with their games
Really? Most games I played in my life were pirated software.
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I don’t understand why he’s getting flamed so hard. I get that it’s an unpopular take, but the reaction is way overboard. Why is the community like this?
It’s not just because of his stance on SKG. That’s just a catalyst.
He’s curated this image of being some kind of industry guru, through carefully edited shorts, appeal to authority fallacies and thorough moderation of dissenting opinion.
Because this is the first time (I’m aware of) he’s taken such a strong contrary position to a popular argument, it’s caused people to look closer and pull back the curtain.
What they’ve discovered is that they’ve been lied to (by the “hacker” who gained access via social engineering), and that’s what pisses people off.
The criticism of his character has been around for a long time, but his message was always louder. Until now.
I haven’t followed him at all, in fact, I’ve only watched a few videos by him over the last week or so due to this controversy, and read a couple articles about it. I found this wiki page about him, which claims his career has been:
- worked as a freelance security researcher and developer (I’m guessing basic pen tests, given his likely experience at the time)
- started at Blizzard in QA, left after 6 years as a pen tester
- created indie studio w/ friends, and so far has completed one game, has one as “early access” (for 7 years!!), and one in progress
- streams a lot
I don’t know what claims he has made in the past, but working at a major studio for several years in multiple capacities would certainly give him some insight that most outside the industry don’t have. He has also likely learned some game dev in his stint as an indie developer, though I don’t think that’s particularly relevant to the claims he has made about SKG.
Is that history inaccurate?
From what I’ve read, the main complaints are:
- take on SKG - people don’t think he has the credentials necessary to make the claims he has (for the record, Ross Scott also doesn’t have any relevant credentials)
- something about WoW? Sounds like a misunderstanding that he cleared w/ his team (I watched a clip of the original stream)
- people claiming, without evidence, that he’s lying about his credentials
Here’s my opinion:
- agree w/ take on Godot
- disagree w/ take on SKG, though I do understand that the petition is a bit vague in some areas, but that’s for legal reasons (i.e. you can’t force a studio to release their server code)
- he’s a bit abrasive, hence why I haven’t been able to actually finish any of his videos; had I found him months earlier, I would’ve been turned off purely based on his style
I don’t think he deserves the flak he’s getting, I do think he made some serious mistakes on the SKG opinion, and he should’ve been better at reading the room and actually had Ross on to discuss the initiative and air his concerns.
I didn’t really follow him, but the YouTube algorithm filled my feed with his shorts and I inevitably formed an opinion based off those. I don’t watch twitch.
When I first saw the negative coverage about him with the wow thing, I thought it was just people being petty and the usual trolling
Not to the extent I’d post defensive comments, but I was on his side. I did start to wonder if he was full of it, the coverage following ross’ rebuttal of his arguments confirmed it for me.
I’m not trying to convince you if he’s a bad guy or not, just explain why a lot of people, including me are annoyed at him and creating a market for content pointing out his lies.
I don’t want to go in depth on his background, that wikka is broadly correct although his first job was in QA at blizzard due to nepotism (source: Thor himself on stream) he left and I don’t recall whether the security researcher job followed immediately but he did a stint of that where he did pen testing via social engineering (source his LinkedIn) and returned to Blizzard to work in the security department, not nepotism this time (according to him) although he had worked there before and his Dad still did which wouldn’t have hurt. Then he worked at Amazon as a tester.
As for his credentials and their relevance to his take on SKG, the big difference is that Ross doesn’t claim to be an expert, he’s made it clear his opinion is the way the industry treats eol products is anti-consumer, that the law isn’t clear on whether that’s allowed, and that if you agree, you can join the campaign. Jason on the other hand is relying on his credentials to back up his arguments and why people should listen to him.
The wow thing, as I understand it, mistakes were made by several people including him, not that big of a deal, except he refused to admit any wrongdoing and banned anyone who disagreed which rubbed people up the wrong way. It might have caused less of a stir if he didn’t flex on others about how good he is.Jason on the other hand is relying on his credentials to back up his arguments and why people should listen to him.
Perhaps. But he also has some relevant credentials, since he has worked with a big AAA studio, worked w/ an indie publisher, and has been working on games w/ a team.
It’s a bit odd IMO for him to go out of his way to defend live-service games since that rarely describes indies, but I wish he’d clarify his point there in the context of a revised understanding of the petition. It wouldn’t sway my opinion, but perhaps it could sway others who are on the fence about the petition.
It might have caused less of a stir if he didn’t flex on others about how good he is.
Sure, but isn’t that kind of what streamers do? If you’re not wanting to watch someone flex on others, then perhaps watching a popular streamer isn’t the best move.
I think the main issue is that he didn’t step to self-correct. When you have a controversial take (and I’m sure he was aware his take was controversial), you need to be extra careful you have accurate facts. When he got a bunch of pushback, he should’ve reached out to Ross to have him on to talk about the petition, which would both provide a chance to elucidate the facts, as well as give viewers more context on the issues he has with it. That didn’t happen, and I think that’s the main issue here.
That said, I think the response to Jason/Thor was way too aggressive. Yeah, he has a bad take, but I saw some review-bombing on his own games, which doesn’t really help things (I didn’t even know he made games until I was trying to find out why so many people cared).
Anyway, I’m happy to continue largely ignoring him, because he doesn’t produce content that’s interesting to me.
But that’s the point people are making, that his credentials actually aren’t relevant, at least not to the extent he’s an expert. He worked at Blizzard, but not as a developer, it’s been likened to someone who worked in the billing department at a hospital weighing in on medical care.
He does have experience as a dev on Heartbound, but that’s not AAA, and he seems to have got bored of that, preferring the ego boost of being a streamer.
He’s still entitled to an opinion of course, but it shouldn’t carry the weight it had been given.His support for life services makes sense when you find out the game publisher he (allegedly) founded and the one he recently resigned from, was publishing live service games.
He claims he was review bombed, others have checked the steam stats and it didn’t support his claim.
It seems like you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and TBH that’s fair enough, especially if you’re just going to ignore him. Like I said, I think a lot of people who are mad at him were following him, and feel like they were taken for chumps.
If you did decide to dig into it though (and I’m not recommending it), there are some content creators bringing receipts, and there is a definite pattern of behaviour.
He worked at Blizzard, but not as a developer, it’s been likened to someone who worked in the billing department at a hospital weighing in on medical care.
A QA would probably be more involved, since they would be testing the game or something related to the game. How relevant his experience was depends on what he worked on and who he had access to talk to. I learned a lot about electrical engineering while working as a software engineer at a company that built custom antennas because I talked to the EEs a lot. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a similar experience at Blizzard.
preferring the ego boost of being a streamer
And probably the money. With a big enough audience, it pays reasonably well. I doubt his games are selling well enough to live off of.
He claims he was review bombed
He claims the other publisher was review bombed, I’m talking about his studio’s games, which do seem to be review bombed (overwhelmingly negative for recent reviews, positive all time).
I think a lot of people who are mad at him were following him
Perhaps. But a lot of people knee-jerk join the bandwagon as well. Look at everyone jumping on the Godot hate train. I refuse to form a negative opinion without being fully informed, because the cult of public opinion can be absolutely reactionary.
So I err on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt.
And yeah, content creators jumping on the bandwagon isn’t my cup of tea, since they have a motivation to exaggerate to get views. I want a pretty unbiased, fair take, not a rage bait take, and that’s more likely to be found on a forum like this instead of on YouTube. Hence why I’m asking.
Unpopular take is a bit of an understatement. He called the entire movement shit and trashtalked it instead of just disagreeing. He also, after all the responses, doubled down and said he hopes “the movement gets want it wants, but not what it needs.”
It’s also not really a one off situation from PirateSoftware
This just served as a way for others to shed light on how scummy he is as a person in general.
Is there some kind of summary I can read? I don’t follow him and only read a couple articles about the situation and it didn’t seem all that bad. But maybe it was.
The one video I half watched was him defending Godot from people overexaggerating, so I don’t see evidence of him being a scummy person in general.
Clip of his response: https://www.twitch.tv/piratesoftware/clip/AssiduousTiredBoarRitzMitz-j0W1S8wiY9wGCtK7
Video summary (timestamped at where he just trashtalks the movement for a solid minute) https://youtu.be/R-RaQZPzhqU?t=494
I don’t know if there’s any real good TLDR for this situation, here’s the best I could find: https://www.sportskeeda.com/us/streamers/pirate-software-stop-killing-games-controversy-timeline-events
WoW controversy part https://deltiasgaming.com/pirate-software-world-of-warcraft-drama-explained/
There’s a couple of other stuff like abuse allegations against him and other minor controversies like cheating in puzzle games. You can look those up if you want.
Also, for context, I do not condone any of the harm sent his way. I think what he’s done is pretty scummy, but he and his team doesn’t deserve being sent death threats and swatted
For reference, this is the first time I’ve watched anything by PirateSoftware, and I’ve only heard about him in the past week or so. So I’m coming at this from a pretty neutral position and as someone who generally supports SKG (I’m not in Europe so I can’t sign, but I would if I could).
Clip of his response
Looks like he’s responding more to online bullying, not the petition. The only time he mentions Ross at all (and not even by name) is him giving sarcastic support (hope petition gets everything you asked for, but nothing you wanted), which underscores his view that the petition is overly vague.
The video summary is useful, it looks like PirateSoftware completely missed what the petition was for. I’ve read the petition and watched the supporting materials, and it’s clear to me that the focus is to make games (SP or MP) continue to work in some fashion for those that bought it after support ends. But it seems PirateSoftware somehow misinterpreted it as “all games must be playable SP after support ends,” which isn’t the case at all. Using the WoW example, players just want to keep doing raids w/ friends after support ends, and they’re happy to host the server themselves.
here’s the best I could find
I think that’s the one I read. Here’s my takeaway, I obviously haven’t confirmed everything (I’d rather not dig through his videos)
WoW controversy part
Idk, that situation looks dumb. I don’t know who the group leader was, but here’s how it seems to have unfolded:
- someone says run (beginning of the clip), so he runs
- on the way out he exhausts his manna trying to save the group
- someone else says to come back because they’re getting wrecked
- seconds later that same person says “just run”
I don’t think there’s a good outcome there. Either he returns to help the person getting wrecked and likely dies (I’m not familiar w/ WoW, but it seems he’s out of resources), or he runs and doesn’t die, and there are conflicting commands from the group. It was a tense situation and the group was looking for someone to blame. The article mentions the group worked it out.
I think what he’s done is pretty scummy
Here’s how I see it, taking things from PirateSoftware’s perspective:
- misinterprets the petition (honest mistake IMO), probably because Ross Scott isn’t some suave presenter and jumped to conclusions (i.e. this is just some angry gamer who threw something together); that last part is absolutely speculation on my part, drawn from my own initial reaction
- got a ton of unrelated backlash, like people digging through his history to defame him, death threats, etc
- he doesn’t see his error, and instead sees Ross Scott as the unwitting leader of a horde of angry gamers who are going to accidentally destroy a chunk of his industry
What needed to happen is for PirateSoftware and Ross Scott to jump on a call to clarify the petition. It’s absolutely fine if he still thinks it’s a bad petition, but at least ensure you understand what it’s talking about so you can elucidate reasons for opposing it.
I think PirateSoftware is your typical self-centered streamer/YouTuber. He probably didn’t watch Ross Scott’s rebuttal, probably because the community’s reaction left a bad taste in his mouth. On the flipside, one of the streamers I like also initially rejected the petition (not sure if he changed his mind, I don’t watch him all that often), probably because the rational initial reaction to proposed laws is to reject them.
I think it’s an unfortunate situation. I wish Ross Scott was more charismatic. I wish PirateSoftware didn’t misread the petition. I wish they jumped on a call to work through the details, which would be especially valuable to Ross Scott to get the feedback of an industry insider. A lot of unfortunate things happened, but I still don’t think PirateSoftware is a bad person, I think he’s just a typical streamer who tends to jump to conclusions (easy to do when doing things live) and is a bit self-centered (which you need to be as a streamer IMO).
Anyway, that’s my take given the limited amount of time I’ve spent on this.
I don’t like pirate software like any other guy, but I want to put credit where credit is due.
He wasn’t ranting about Godot being woke last year. He was actually actively defending it from all the bigots. One of the very few YouTubers or streamers, I saw.
You have probably mistaken him with Asmongold. He has long hair too, and he is right wing nutjob pos.
Oh shoot, wasn’t Asmongold censored out of the new bbno$ music video? There was some text at the start that said “I’m sorry, I didn’t know about redacted’s shitty views” and one of the people has a raptor image digitally inserted over his face for the whole video.
Why do you people care?
Why do you care about people caring?
Curiosity
There you go.
That doesn’t make sense
Godot being woke? Wtf?
I guess they woke up and made a good open source game engine?
OP is mistaken. PirateSoftware defended Godot official and pointed out the actual perpetrator of hate was a mod of an unofficial fan discord. Someone else posted a clip of it in this thread.
That actually happened, but not from this PirateSoftware guy. The anti-woke godoters made their own fork, Redot, which, as you might have expected, doesn’t do jack shit other than offering cosmetic changes
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Why are you trying to harm anyone associated with stop killing games
Easy on the trigger man.
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I don’t like him. Never have, never will.
yeah, same!
no idea who he is, should I care?
No.
The review bombing is another fabrication:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2217000/Rivals_of_Aether_II/?curator_clanid=45028385
It seems like a minor influx of recent negative reviews. Most likely they didn’t want his current status in the public perception to work against the marketing push they wanted from him.
Because let’s be real, “director of strategy” doesn’t seem accurate for someone who is obviously just an influencer marketing your game to his large audience.
Reviews since July first look at least 50% negative which was not seen before so there could be an argument it is happening.
More than 0 reviews related to the drama = review bombing
He worked at blizzard for 7 years guys.
You do understand that on Steam if you have 50% or more negative reviews, it is a “Mostly Negative” and puts people off even trying. Bad reviews can have a serious effect on sales. 10 negative reviews in millions is nothing, 10 negative reviews alongside 10 positive is detrimental. It’s all about the percentage and indie games work at a different scale.
I’m unsure what the point about working for Blizzard means. You’ll have to elaborate.
On Steam you can report review bombing events to have the reviews struck from the list so…
And the working at blizzard line is mocking Thor for literally never shutting the fuck up about his nepobaby job.
(the link is for the past week, so will be less and less accurate to the july first start date as the days pass by)
The only two reviews related to the drama are specifically in reaction to the alleged review bombing. The other negative reviews don’t mention anything related to the drama at all, and so the increase is probably just due to the streisand effect.
I’ll list the two drama-related reviews here trimmed down to the drama-relevant parts only (not the full reviews):
“Drumming up fake drama about a review bombing that never happened to artificially inflate your positive review count through fan counteraction is gross.” — Full Review
“Wasn’t gonna leave a review but Ludwig and Pirate Software cried review bombing so I’m leaving an honest review to combat the non-existent bombing.” — Full Review
As you can see by these excerpts, both of them were made AFTER the allegations of review bombing. They’re not part of the review bombing itself that was being talked about.
Edit: fixed inaccurate -> accurate
Let’s brigade people more for speaking and thinking differently. There should only be one correct opinion and anyone who disagrees should be shunned.
You mean “lets have people say whatever they want without any consequences or repercussions, no matter how wrong or hurtful they are”?
Honestly I think Pirate Software was 90 percent in the wrong. He misunderstood the thrust of the Stop Killing Games movement and took his discourse too far. I think it’s a little gross how much we’ve chosen to pile on as a community.
In the real world we have in front of us some of the ideas put forth by Stop Killing Games will actually be hard for companies to implement. I don’t feel bad for them nor do I support the murder of games. It’s just not a simple prospect.I think it’s a little gross how much we’ve chosen to pile on as a community.
The man is still advocating (to this very day) against Stop Killing Games, why does he get a pass? Why should I give a flying fuck about companies that have been bleeding a hobby I enjoy for years. Why are people so FUCKING WILLING TO STAND UP IN DEFENCE OF THE INDEFENSIBLE!
Sorry that last one is not the games industry only. But really why do people think its gross to call someone on their bullshit, but not gross to play defence for a multinational company?
your takeaway from individual people being unhappy after everything that has come to light about an individual popular person is missing the actual situation/thing that is happening right in front of you? quite a bit more went on than “differing opinion” and even then people are luckily allowed to be upset and it is even easy to understand when it is an influential person, welcome to the internet.
welcome to the internet
Yeah, this is the sucky part about the modern internet. It used to be that the internet was a place for discussion and we’ve twisted it to a place to enforce conformity.
I don’t know anything about this guy, so maybe there’s a more established pattern here, but ideally we don’t jump down someone’s throat when they do one or two unpopular things, but instead wait for a pattern to emerge before getting out the pitchforks. But everyone needs to be first, because the first one gets the eyeballs and there’s not much downside to ruining someone’s reputation unnecessarily.
It’s stupid and I hate it.
I think I’m just tired of being handed a pitchfork whenever I browse YouTube or read about Stop Killing Games.
Yeah, that’s why I generally avoid the more popular channels. I just don’t care about internet drama and just want to watch some decent content.
My take way is a subset of people are (justifiably) unhappy with Pirate Software. He acted like a dick and someone in his position should have better articulated his arguments and been more open to dialogue.
It’s also a little gross how many people are trying to pay their bills by stoking rage about this rather than moving the issue forward. And yes, I do understand that the rage is probably why this movement got past the goal posts.
I still think we need to self reflect as a community.
PS was gross, but we should be better.
They got 6, count them SIX, negative reviews in one day. Such review bombing, indeed.
Honestly, very smart and humble move, he certainly got hit with a ton of bad press for his opposition to the petition and that would have impacted the game studio’s sales.
Review bomb where? On their page they link to Steam, where they have one released game (95% positive) and two demos (one unrated, second 90% positive).
“on discord and twitter”
#gasp
Alright, so no review bombing going on then, as Twitter is full of dumbfucks anyway and can burn to the ground, and who the hell goes on Discord to review a game? It seems like it was about harassment, and not review bombing.
Yup
Drama aside, I’m just glad to read the goal was reached. Hopefully something comes of the effort.
