- cross-posted to:
- linux_gaming@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- linux_gaming@lemmy.world
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I only found out about this today from someone whose computer got bricked from trying to enable secure boot.
Just clear the CMOS.
I had issues aswell where I couldn’t boot, and you wanna know why? Because I didn’t follow the step by step instructions EA tells you to follow. Follow those instructions, and it’ll work just fine.
My machine went into a boot loop and I had to clear CMOS to boot again.
I wonder how many people without the resources to fix a problem like that easily are going to end up without computers for an extended period of time because of this.
Anyone with half a brain could see this coming from a mile away. My conspiracy brain almost thinks this is some concerted and calculated effort by Microsoft to artificially lock games to Windows through anti cheat. It’s disgusting, isn’t needed, and just plain isn’t effective. They can spew all the metrics out of their ass, we all know that it’s just not effective.
I am not sure about this conspiracy theory of yours: Microsoft does not want third party applications in the kernel space anymore.
https://www.theverge.com/news/692637/microsoft-windows-kernel-antivirus-changes
Not entirely;
https://github.com/microsoft/ebpf-for-windows
Microsoft just want that 3rd party code to interact in a more predictable way with the kernel
a year ago on Mastodon when EA started locking out games like Apex Legends, BF1, V, 2042, etc from Linux I said “I bet you Microsoft is about to launch a handheld and since they have a deal with EA and Gamepass they want EA Exclusivity on their handheld and to lockout Steamdeck/Valve” sure enough a few months later Microsoft announces their Xbox handheld with Asus.
And what’s the one thing they are getting fucking torched over even by Xbox loyalists? The price (Steam Deck has a cheaper SKU)
So I can’t play battlefield without TPM? I hate tech these days. My Ryzen board doesnt have it. Hence why I’m not on windows 11
I just refuse to enable it. It makes changing things a hassle.
Same. Keeps things simple with Linux, and Windows doesn’t even complain about it being disabled, so long as it’s present. I’ll never understand why it’s even required if you don’t even have to enable it.
So they can have an excuse to force you to upgrade to Windows 11 beyond “whoops, turns out making an operating system as a ‘buy once’ product is a bad idea.”
Joke’s on them; I already upgraded to Windows 11. I was among the first. It’s actually a solid OS once you disable all the ads and telemetry with O&O Shut Up 10.
Yeah I did the same using WinUtil. Still, I only fire up windows when I need to use software without native Linux support.
You can still get win 11 without TPM by using Rufus and bypassing TPM which will have to be done for a lot of old PCs and we will have to do it by October this year.
Does this disable updates though? My wife somehow had Win11 installed on her pc without enabling secure boot, and her updates got so far behind that now it refuses to update and needs to be reinstalled.
No it doesn’t, but I’ll try putting it on one of my older PCs again and report back I only use Linux
Didn’t Microsoft stop this in a recent-ish update? I remember trying it on a machine without TPM and it just didn’t work.
Bazzite worked fine though (after some headaches setting it up).
Why would you install Windows 11on a computer? What happens if you don’t do it before October?
Your computer will gradually get more and more filled with security holes that will be problematic to patch. Eventually, programs will stop supporting it as well.
Microsoft will be releasing custom viruses that only infect 10.
you will own nothing and be happy
Shame was really looking forward to bf6. Guess I’ll pass
Your anti-cheat doesn’t work anyway so let me play in linux you cowards.
They want to keep windows relevant so hard. Yeah, i enable secure boot, and let some kernel level anti cheat into my system. At least i don’t have to play with cheaters. Oh there are still cheaters. So glad
Only AI will be able to root this out in future
Keep that AI horseshit out of video games, thanks.
That’s an (obviously) unpopular opinion around here but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt: How would AI be able to do that?
Since human beings are hot garbage and will always cheat, I really enjoyed playing against the AI soldiers in BF. It can also ensure that the game is playable forever OFFLINE.
Where I live I cant play BF4 anymore. Servers are down for my country, but I paid money for the game. Digital media is a scam once the servers go down. That is why I jailbroke every console I own. Ppl are already reviving BF2 with AI bots. The future is looking bright.
I am not sure what the user above is thinking, but to play devil’s advocate:
One thing that modern AI does well is pattern recognition. An AI trained on player behavior, from beginner level all the way up to professional play, would be able to acquire a thorough understanding of what human performance looks like (which is something that games have been developing for a long time now, to try to have bots more accurately simulate player behavior).
I remember someone setting up their own litmus test using cheats in Tarkov where their main goal was just to observe the patterns of other players who are cheating. There are a lot of tells, a big one being reacting to other players who are obscured by walls. Another one could be the way in which aimbots immediately snap and lock on to headshots.
It could be possible to implement a system designed to flag players whose behavior is seen as too unlike normal humans, maybe cross-referencing with other metadata (account age/region/sudden performance anomalies/etc) to make a more educated determination about whether or not someone is likely cheating, without having to go into kernel-level spying or other privacy-invasive methods.
But then…this method runs the risk of eventually being outmatched by the model facilitating it: an AI trained on professional human behavior that can accurately simulate human input and behave like a high performing player, without requiring the same tools a human needs to cheat.
Cheating humans already perform closely enough to trick such a system. Many cheaters are smart enough to use an aimbot only for a split-second to nail the flick. With a tiny bit of random offset, those inputs indistinguishable from a high-skill player.
These tricks may make it indistinguishable to a human moderator, but machine learning is actually really good at detecting that. But most companies don’t have the expertise, resources or training data to build a proper model for it.
Machine Learning is really good at CLAIMING it detected that.
The reality is that every few months there is a story about a fairly big streamer/e-sports player MAYBE getting caught cheating on stream. Sometimes it is obvious and sometimes it really becomes “Did they just know the map well enough to expect someone to come around that corner?”.
And a lot of times… it really is inconclusive. A somewhat common trope in movies is the veteran gunslinger literally aims at the wall of a stairwell and tracks where they expect the head to be and either fires a few rounds through the wall or waits for them at the bottom and… that is not entirely inconceivable considering that people tend to not crouch or move erratically down stairs. Obviously Jonathan Banks has a wallhack but Mike Ehrmantraut is just that damned good.
And false positives are a great way to basically kill a game. ESPECIALLY if they are associated with demonstrably false negatives too.
But you can be damned sure most of the major esports games are already doing this. It really isn’t expensive to train and they have direct feeds of every player in a tournament or twitch event. The issue is that there are (hopefully) tens of thousands of servers active at any moment and running Computer Vision+Inference on every single server is very costly.
And… I seem to recall there was a recent intentionally poorly defined Movement about maybe keeping user hostable dedicated servers a thing? How does that mesh with having every single server need to phone home (a fraction of) all 32 players feeds to a centralized cluster?
Machine learning doesn’t necessarily require a centralized cluster. Usually running those kinds of models is pretty cheap, it’s not an LLM basically. They usually do better than human moderators as well, able to pick up on very minute ‘tells’ these cheats have.
I understand your point about edge cases, but that’s not something the average player cares about much. E-sports is a pretty niche part of any game, especially the higher ranks. You just want to filter out the hackers shooting everyone each game that truly ruin the enjoyment. Someone cheating to rank gold instead of silver or whatever isn’t ruining game experiences; they’re usually detectable too, but if you get a false negative on that it’s not the end of the world. A smurf account of a very highly ranked player probably has a bigger impact on players’ enjoyment.
Depending on the model, inference can be run with CPU only. To distinguish what was originally proposed (a momentary flick consistent with aimbotting), you are either doing ray tracing (really expensive) or analyzing (effectively) video feeds. Both of which tend to put things more into the GPU realm which drastically increases the cost of a server.
But also? The only way these models can work is with constant data. Which means piping feeds back home for training which basically is never inexpensive.
Aside from that: if it was as simple as you are suggesting then this would be a solved problem. Similarly, if people don’t care about hackers outside of e-sports then there would be no reason for games to spend money on anti-cheat solutions when any match that matters would have heavy scrutiny. And yet, studios keep pumping out the cash for EAC and the like.
The same way it’s automodderating Reddit to a point that nobody can post anything anymore LOL
CSGO used to have Overwatch which is an anti cheat system that uses trusted and experienced players to go through video footage of reported players. With this method I both reported blatant spinbotters, wall hacking, and other chears. I also was on the side of watching back footage of hacking players.
Say AI trains on this data, it might work.
I’m not a fan of this though because knowledgeable and experienced players will be better than AI.
Don’t waste your time, they’re either an hardcore AI bootlicker or a shit stirrer - most likely both, looking at their post history.
What actually exists but what I have yet to see implemented in any game I play are those server-side “AI anti-cheat” solutions like from anybrain that basically just analyse the players behavior to fit certain criteria. According to areweanticheatyet.com though there are four games using it already (the most well-known one probably being Lost Ark). In theory ai models can be very efficient and accurate at this (we are not talking about transformer models here like with the current llm craze) but that all depends on how they train a model and what the training data looks like.
Pattern recognition anticheat vs. bot based on patterns? I don’t see anyone winning.
So you got the spyware without the benefits, that’s a hell of a surprise isn’t it?
But thank you for your money suckers!
Server side anticheats need to be considered. Clientside has been annoying users far too much, and can be bypassed. A combination of both (and I’d like a less intrusive clientside one) would be better
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Secure Boot isn’t Tivoization because you can enroll your own keys.
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The standard thing people refer to as “Secure Boot” allows users to enroll their own keys and thus is not TiVo. The ability to enroll your own keys is the distinguishing feature here - TiVo devices don’t let you do that, so you can’t sign your own thing and run it.
The FSF has various pearl clutching articles from the days of Windows 8 fretting about whether or not users would be able to install their own keys on Secure Boot devices, but here in 2025, most devices allow this. (I’m sure there’s a handful of bizarre laptops or whatever that don’t, but the vast majority of hardware I’ve seen is fine.)
And yet they have the audacity to block Linux players
More proof that anti-cheat and bans just isn’t a working approach.
Almost every cheater I’ve talked to or seen interviewed has said they do it because they like winning. If thats the case, pushing them away isnt getting rid of them, its making them try to win harder, and they are literally spending money to make that happen.
This means, there is a market for cheaters, one that publishers and devs simply assault instead of realizing they could replace it entirely.
Create a marketplace in your game for cheats. When a player buys a cheat in game, they can turn it on but only in a specific playlist that cheaters get to play in. You dont need to own or turn on cheats to play in that playlist, in case you feel like challenging yourself, but cheaters can use them as much as they want in that playlist. If a cheater wants to go into cheat free playlist, their cheats get turned off by the game and they have to play like everyone else. Cheat free playlists can have cheat detection, and if you are caught cheating then you get banned from cheat free playlists permanently, but you arent banned from the game or the cheat playlist.
This deters cheaters from paying third parties for cheats, gives them a space to experiment in, makes money for the company running the game, and reduces the amount of cheaters in regular public lobbies. It also creates a space of challenge for people who don’t cheat, sorta like how people will do no death runs in souls games.
Sure, it isnt a perfect solution, but its far better than punishing every player with invasive tech, while simultaneously letting a market of cheat sellers thrive. For a bunch of capitalists, its wild they haven’t realized they are missing out on money with cheats.
I suspect that if you’re now playing where everyone else gets the same advantages, that ruins the fun of having cheats
If not and the cheats themselves are just that fun to use, sure, add it in as another gamemode
…alternatively just shadow ban all the cheaters into cheater only lobbies.
Nullsec
Why are people like this. How does this make gaming enjoyable?
Honestly, if I had the skills I’d be doing that as an explicit fuck you to the draconian anticheat bullshit they force on everyone, because what better fuck you than showing all that effort was for naught, especially close to launch.
EA can go fuck themselves with the world’s biggest cactus.
I prefer “fuck you with an anchor”
I love that track, but have to skip it regularly with my kid in the car lol
There’s a kid friendly version. Flipped with a sausage.
And one for dogs as well.
I have ‘for dogs’ on my radio already, but I might put the sausage one on too, that’s great
A lot of hacking in valorant is about this tbf (and to more efficiently sell boosts)
It’s fun to cheat in games, that’s why we have cheat codes.
Also there’s the competitive side of it where not getting caught is a skill and glitching is just game knowledge.
Cheat codes and cheating in online games is obviously the same thing. You cheat because you’re a cunt.
I don’t cheat, I play online games to get into flame wars not to play the games.
For some people the only things that brings them joy are 1) winning 2) making other people suffer
Or developing cheats. It sounds really fun and you get to grow by keeping on top of the anticheat.
Pretty much the same as all the other modern BFs. They all had cheats in the Beta/early release versions. I’ve played and own literally every BF game since the original release of 1942. Cheats have always been present more or less.
