• GreenKnight23@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    social media is what it’s made to be. social media as we use it is flawed.

    all of the platforms just do different colors of the same damn thing.

  • 9point6@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Meta and twitter cease to exist tomorrow and 99% of the issues are solved IMO

    The fediverse is social media and it doesn’t have anything close to the same kinds of harmful patterns

    • Nougat@fedia.io
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      4 months ago

      It’s almost like the problem isn’t social media, but the algorithms that put content in front of your eyeballs to keep your engagement in order to monetize you. Like a casino.

      • /home/pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        4 months ago

        Although I love Lemmy, I find it will be hard to recommend a normal young person to hop on Lemmy, Mastodon, Kbin, Misskey, Iceshrimp, etc. Most people on here talk about tech and politics. If you scroll through the main feed, you won’t get stuff from other communities unless you seek it out.

        Not diverse enough, but once it gets diverse, it will probably enshitify and make the community mainstream garbage. Then we’re back to square one with people making clickbait posts and attention seeking people.

      • Jason2357@lemmy.ca
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        4 months ago

        Facebook was pretty boring before they tried to make money. Still ick, but mostly just people posting pictures of activities with family or friends.

      • Sckharshantallas@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Exactly, the one big issue with the modern world is the algorithms pushing for engagement as the only important metric.

    • vacuumflower@lemmy.sdf.org
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      4 months ago

      It has. Discussions here are mostly, just like elsewhere, people throwing arrogant smartass-looking text at each other and refusing to elaborate or explain or reason. Due to the experience of getting into such, people who’d actually discuss something instead “money-first” post with a set of markers hinting at their opinions and possible arguments, and masquerade discussion as agreement. It’s only a little less exhausting than going into a shit-throwing contest, even if more rewarding.

    • chaosCruiser@futurology.today
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      4 months ago

      Amazon, Google and Microsoft would still be there, so the Internet seems to be suffering from a metastatic cancer at this point. Cutting off two revolting lumps helps, but the prognosis doesn’t look that great.

      • 9point6@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        None of those have had much success in creating social networks that suck people in quite like the others

        Not to say they don’t have their own problems, but the bulk of problems with social media come squarely from meta & twitter.

      • Salvo@aussie.zone
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        4 months ago

        There will be a big curtaining of Apple, Microsoft, Google and Adobe if Facebook, TikTok and Twitter (and YouTube) have their algorithmic feeds outlawed.

        It would probably cause the AI bubble to burst too so our OSs, Applications and Search Engines (and Government) would become usable again.

    • paraphrand@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Lemmy is social media. So is Mastodon. So is peer tube. And everything else in the fediverse.

      So I wouldn’t compare social media to a gun, across the board.

        • Salvo@aussie.zone
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          4 months ago

          The AlGoRyThMs are what is inducing the social damage.

          Even games of chance (like Poker Machines and) would be less destructive if they were fairer and less engaging.

        • Amju Wolf@pawb.social
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          4 months ago

          Reddit certainly had its problems but was actually pretty good for the ~15 years before it started getting enshittified more and more to try to extract value.

      • ano_ba_to@sopuli.xyz
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        4 months ago

        What is not social media? Were the forums from before Friendster, MySpace, Facebook social media too? I don’t know anyone here. Is a mall a house?

        • paraphrand@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Social media is defined by users being the main source of content. Not by friendship or acquaintance. Fox News is not social media, because you can’t just upload content to Fox News.

    • General_Effort@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Social media hasn’t been designed to cause these problems, though. It’s more a babelfish thing.

  • General_Effort@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I’m not surprised. I am surprised that the researchers were surprised, though.

    Bridging algorithms seem promising.

    The results were far from encouraging. Only some interventions showed modest improvements. None were able to fully disrupt the fundamental mechanisms producing the dysfunctional effects. In fact, some interventions actually made the problems worse. For example, chronological ordering had the strongest effect on reducing attention inequality, but there was a tradeoff: It also intensified the amplification of extreme content. Bridging algorithms significantly weakened the link between partisanship and engagement and modestly improved viewpoint diversity, but it also increased attention inequality. Boosting viewpoint diversity had no significant impact at all.

  • Cocopanda@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Getting banned from Facebook. After a decade of clapping back against racists. Has been the best thing in my life. So glad to be out of there. Just wish I could have saved my pics first.

  • Perspectivist@feddit.uk
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    4 months ago

    Ofcourse not. The issue with social media are the people. Algorithms just bring out the worst in us but it didn’t make us like that, we already were.

    • grrgyle@slrpnk.net
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      4 months ago

      From my point of view something that brings out the worst in us sounds like a really big part of the issue.

      We’ve always been modified by our situations, so why not create better situations rather than lamenting that we don’t have the grit to break through whatever toxic society we find ourselves graphed onto?

      Sorry I know I’m putting a lot on your comment that I know you didn’t mean, but I see this kind of unintentional crypto doomerism a lot. I think it holds people to an unhealthy standard.

      • Perspectivist@feddit.uk
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        4 months ago

        It is a big part of the issue, but as Lemmy clearly demonstrates, that issue doesn’t go away even when you remove the algorithm entirely.

        I see it a lot like driving cars - no matter how much better and safer we make them, accidents will still happen as long as there’s an ape behind the wheel, and probably even after that. That’s not to say things can’t be improved - they definitely can - but I don’t think it can ever be “fixed,” because the problem isn’t it - it’s us. You can’t fix humans by tweaking the code on social media.

    • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de
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      4 months ago

      The reason why it brings out the worst in people is because it has open borders. You can shit into the network and move on. If you were forced to stay and live with your shit, you’d shit less into the public domain. That means small networks, harder to move to other/new networks, …

  • mienshao@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    “Fixing” social media is like “fixing” capitalism. Any manmade system can be changed, destroyed, or rebuilt. It’s not an impossible task but will require a fundamental shift in the way we see/talk to/value each other as people.

    The one thing I know for sure is that social media won’t ever improve if we all accept the narrative that it can’t be improved.

    We live in capitalism. Its power seems inescapable. So did the divine right of kings. Any human power can be resisted and changed by human beings. Resistance and change often begin in art, and very often in our art, the art of words.

    -Ursula K Le Guin

    • BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Particularly apt given that many of the biggest problems with social media are problems of capitalism. Social media platforms have found it most profitable to monetize conflict and division, the low self-esteem of teenagers, lies and misinformation, envy over the curated simulacrum of a life presented by a parasocial figure.

      These things drive engagement. Engagement drives clicks. Clicks drive ad revenue. Revenue pleases shareholders. And all that feeds back into a system that trades negativity in the real world for positivity on a balance sheet.

    • TAG@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      If you read the article, the argument they are making is that you cannot fix social media by simply tweaking the algorithm. We need a new form of social media that is not just everyone screaming into the void for attention, which includes Lemmy, Mastodon, and other Fediverse platforms.

      • floofloof@lemmy.ca
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        4 months ago

        The Left Hand of Darkness is excellent too. Sci-fi from the 1960s about a planet whose people have no fixed sex or gender, and a man from Earth who struggles to understand and function in this society. That description makes it sound very worthy, but it’s actually gripping and moving.

    • Sckharshantallas@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      This is spot on. The issue with any system is that people don’t pay attention to the incentives.

      When a surgeon earns more if he does more surgeries with no downside, most surgeons in that system will obviously push for surgeries that aren’t necessary. How to balance incentives should be the main focus on any system that we’re part of.

      You can pretty much understand someone else’s behavior by looking at what they’re gaining or what problem they’re avoiding by doing what they’re doing.

    • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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      4 months ago

      Yeah, this author is the pop-sci / sci-fi media writer on Ars Technica, not one of the actual science coverage ones that stick to their area of expertise, and you can tell by the overly broad, click bait, headline, that is not actually supported by the research at hand.

      The actual research is using limited LLM agents and only explores an incredibly limited number of interventions. This research does not remotely come close to supporting the question of whether or not social media can be fixed, which in itself is a different question from harm reduction.

  • YappyMonotheist@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    As long as people worship themselves (but also, paradoxically, require everyone’s attention and approval all the time just to make it to the next day), it will continue being that way. For those who see it for what it is and are disgusted by it, we have Lemmy/discussion boards.

  • troed@fedia.io
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    4 months ago

    Using Bluesky as the non-algorithmic example is problematic - they still need to show high user engagement numbers for their VC owners. Mastodon do not have the same problems since on the contrary a Mastodon instance owner has an economic incentive in making sure spambots and troll factory accounts get closed down asap.