There were a lot of fires to put out and this fire department chose the ones that would benefit them and lectured those abandoned in burning buildings about how their building aren’t burning and then campaigned arm in arm with a bunch of arsonists.

Yeah, their opponent was an arsonist so it wasn’t the best strategy to sit this one out but there is a lot of blame to go around.

America needs to fix it’s shit. I’m just hoping the arsonists don’t burn it to the ground first.

Votes aren’t all counted so no, 15 million didn’t sit out. I’m not saying it wasn’t millions, but it’s not 15 million.

You’re fine being part of the problem then? Shit looks bad so you’re not going to even try and be civil? You sound like those disaffected voters.

What if the folks that voted in 2020 and didn’t vote in 2024 are the type of folks who just normally don’t vote and weren’t inspired this year? What if the same kind of “there’s no way Trump can win” thinking had them taking the situation for granted? Again, not saying they should have fucking voted but maybe it’s more complicated than a few million people didn’t vote this year so apparently the entirety of the non-republicans are racists. Group punishment is in order?

Wait until all the ballots are counted. Ballots still being counted aren’t in those totals but, obviously, they finished counting 2020. Shit, California is still like 60% counted at this point. And they’re at 10 million votes counted… that’s like 6.5 million more votes just estimating CA.

I disagree. Championing progressive policies in most instances actually appeals universally to a majority of the electorate.

I’m not suggesting they’d be able to follow through because I think a significant number of Democrat representatives can’t stomach actually progressive policies… but I think they’d win more elections.

Yes, we all woke up to our future being a fucking fascist horror show. We’re all grieving. Chill the fuck out with the “racist” shit, you just dividing the left more.

Yes, I’m sure some people are just misogynistic and racist and stayed home because of that. However, other people feel like it doesn’t fucking matter. We understand that it does matter, but I’ll be damned if I don’t feel that way too sometimes. It’s so goddamn frustrating when the Democrats tack right over and over again, hamstringing progressives along the way, and then turn around and say “Vote for us because we’re the lesser evil. We’ve wedged you between a rock and a hard place so suck it up and do your patriotic duty like good little peasants.”

Kamala’s campaign veered right and abso-fucking-lutely alienated progressive voters. By the end I was legitimately worried she might actually end up being to the right of Biden economically.

Do I forgive lefties for sitting this one out? No. That doesn’t mean they won’t do it again and that, for the first time in what feels like decades, the Democrats need to actually learn the right lesson from losing an election.

I’m not seeing turnout down by 20m. Where are you seeing this data? Note, we haven’t even finished counting all the votes.

Admittedly, I was expecting there to be overwhelmingly high turnout and there wasn’t that from what I’ve seen.

The dude won the popular vote. I’m sure a lot of the shady bullshit that happened all around the country to suppress voting inflated his lead a little bit but I don’t think it was substantial enough to explain this.

1. It would have to go through congress, which wouldn’t approve it, so it would be a lie.

The policies are extremely popular and universal. Doesn’t really matter in a politicalcampaign if you struggle to achieve those ends. Trying is important and failing gives you ammunition against those who oppose extremely popular policies for next campaign.

2. They told people “I won’t do mass deportations or order the assassinations of my enemies” and it didn’t work. Why do you assume that this other stuff would?

The bottom line is that the average person isn’t listening for anything besides “how is the candidate going to help me because I feel like I’m drowning”. The right scapegoats something and promises to fix your problems by hurting the scapegoat (immigrants, minorities, socialists, whatever). This is a lie, but it’s just as, if not more, direct of a solution so some voters will support them.

Harris had attention when she said things like stopping price gouging and providing in-home elder care. Those were extremely popular ideas that she didn’t focus on. Instead, she pivoted right.

Lol, like what? Does liking a sport and hating and exposing the corruption of it’s organizers equate to supporting it’s organizers? https://youtu.be/DlJEt2KU33I?si=WJAc7yVePsn0GwaA

…and apparently understanding the frustration with the EU but calling leaving it insane and urging people to vote against brexit is “supporting” it? https://youtu.be/iAgKHSNqxa8?si=JsEMq6gV7-tp5y7k

Like are you even trying? Nobody is perfect, John Oliver included, and I’m sure there are reasons to dislike him but could you at least chose topics he hasn’t released multiple YouTube full clips of episodes of his show where he literally contradicts your point?

The shareholders are the real victims here. Despite being willing to pay their new CEO more than their competitors, the rate at which the company’s profits are increasing is 0.8% less than their competitor’s! Their stock price just took a massive nose dive of $0.08 overnight! Better give the CEO a better incentive package. I’m sure he can replace our QA team with Elon’s new Optimus robots. That might increase our margins and keep us competitive!

All of these things are happening or heading towards happening now, under Democrat leadership.

Events I’ve pointed and sourced:

Golan Heights, Jerusalem recognized as the capital, bailing on the Iran Nuclear deal… they happened because Trump made them happen while he was president. They aren’t happening or heading towards happening now. He literally did them between 2016 and 2020. You. are. lying.

Also, I’m done. Good luck trolling, spreading disinformation, or whatever gets you off.

There aren’t my facts and your facts. Facts are facts. That’s what makes them facts.

I don’t know how I can make this any clearer. This election, 2024, is not normal. In 2020 or any year prior I’d agree with you that things are not black and white.

The man attempted a fucking coup after he lost in 2020. He has forced anyone loyal to him, or fearful of his political power, to deny that he legitimately lost the last election. An enormous effort has been undertaken to install people loyal to him through the election process in countless states and counties throughout the country to have already tested their ability to contest, refuse to certify, and/or slow walk the electoral process.

The upcoming election is black and white. If this man doesn’t suffer an overwhelming loss, there is a very good chance the US will become a dictatorship.

from an opinion a lie you dislike can easily prove to be untrue.

FTFY

Lol, half of these things Trump already did. This is what bad faith arguing looks like.

Well I wouldnt tell that person to go on message boards and shit on every single person who shows the slightest bit of hesitance to vote democrat.

Lol. You aren’t hesitant, you are falsely equating a party that is deeply flawed and a party actively working to undermine and steal an election because they know that their policies are so disturbingly bad and unpopular that even the disproportionate power their given by the electoral college can’t sustain them unless they cheat.

There are more than two outcomes, but I know that several very possible outcomes result in christofascism ruling the USA for the foreseeable future.

You can bark at me all you want but you care more about predicting who wins than affecting change, so we aren’t even talking about the same things.

Predicting who wins? What are you even talking about. I don’t know who is going to win so my point is all hands on deck to preserve what flawed democracy we still have left. If you plan is to sit this one out in some misguided attempt to “affect change” by doing nothing, then I’m going to bark.

If we are clutching onto the shreds of democracy through bullshit votes where pointing out the obvious might break moral to the point of slipping fully into fascism… That just feels like the end of an empire.

So you you think this is the last chapters?

Being honest, yes. I didn’t expect so many people to be misinformed enough to think someone like Donald Trump will make their lives better. Or, worse, they only know he’s promised to make life worse for “those people” and that’s enough for them to want him in charge.

Do you know what a changing climate does to the needs of the people?

I mean, obviously, natural disasters like severe weather impact the needs of the people. Look at the last two hurricanes in the US south or the wildfires out west. Death, injuries, lives disrupted, houses and businesses destroy or damaged, links in supply chains shattered.

Imagine what happens to populated areas that, hypothetically, get hit repeatedly by this for a few years. Many in Florida can’t find home insurance already. Eventually they’ll have to leave and go… where? If this happens repeatedly in poorer neighboring countries? What if sea levels actually rise and wipe out coastal cities? Massive migration, climate refugees, regional instability. It gets too hot for a good crop yield or rainfall patterns change and we get less fresh water? Food and water scarcity, death and starvation… the needs of people can’t be met.

Thr planet? It’ll likely be fine in a few million years. We won’t be.

I’m not sure what you are saying or what it has to do with ending an empire.

Do you think the democrats will legitimately provide a challenge to FPTP voting? To the electoral college?

In time, with enough constituents demanding it, yes. The electoral college specifically hurts their chances.

Do you think the republicans will?

They would have no power without the electoral college. They are close to losing even with a disproportionate amount of influence which is why they are willing to sabotage the country to get back into power.

How would that get overturned, what would that actually look like?

The best way to challenge this captured system is to recapture it via one of the two parties. Make sure your representatives know what you want, convince others who agree with you to do the same, and convince the rest that disagree with you that you are in the right. Then you get critical mass and make it happen. The same way every cultural change happens.

Alternatively or simultaneously, you could have efforts pushing third parties locally. It is easy for an established party to destroy one political opponent on the national level. Just throw money at the problem. 1,000 local elections though? Much harder to manage an attack on a thousand fronts.

There are better ways to end an empire than making a christofascist the emperor and hoping it burns to the ground eventually.