If you find one, you find a group cos like attracts attracts like.
When I’m having beers with my buddies we mostly talk about sports, sometimes work and random other bullshit like movies and such.
It’s actually very rare for dudes to discuss felonies they’ve committed.
Guy: talks about how unproblematic he and his buddies are.
Me: Checks inside.
It’s all him puffing himself up about shit he doesn’t know about and bitching about the woke left.
I’m sure you’re very good at detecting dangerous men in your family and friend group.
Not every anecdote is an attempt to get praise.
Do you honestly think men come with tell-tale signs of being a rapist or a sexual assaulter? I knew my best friend for half a decade, and despite his left-leaning views and overall progressiveness, he still did some shit to me–another gay man–while I slept and without my consent.
I mean, should we apply your logic to sexual assault victims, too? “You should’ve known! Didn’t you hang out with him all week?” Of course not, people mask, and there’s noise in trying to make that judgment. What is this line of thinking, honestly?
So much writing when you obviously didn’t read it. I’m making fun of a chud for acting like they’d even care if a man seemed dangerous. Yes, conservative men are significantly less likely to be conscious of rape culture. No, being into socialism doesn’t inocculate you from being a bad person.
You guys are so committed to delivering the redditor experience that I’m gonna ignore you now.
Edit: Rape culture depends on men not challenging the overtly harmful values and attitudes of other men. It persists exactly because men don’t hold their friends accountable for their behaviour. Men are not taught to identify this behaviour effectively and are statistically unlikely to challenge it as they fear social ostracization (especially if they subscribe to hegemonic masculinity willingly) Want to make this clear in case there is one person on here who isn’t a smug incel because of my nagging sense of responsibility in the misinformation cesspit this sub obviously is.
You’re making fun of someone under a false premise, and that’s my entire point.
I’m gonna ignore you now.
Please do. Block if you can find the button.
I think the sign is pointing to women’s claims of sexual assault not being believed by default and men’s claims of innocence being trusted by default.
Ah yes. Why the fuck should we have due process.
And if they do discuss it it’s because it was decades ago, nearly everyone involved is now old as fuck or dead, and it’s always murder.
Because the amount of rapist’s among the toral male population is incredibly small?
Not saying there isn’t a discussion to be had here. But this argument is moronic and goes against what it’s trying to say
Also “Do I know a rapist?” No.
Did I? At one point yeah… piece of shit is dead to me now.
Some guy in my high school got expelled for SA in the showers.
We just said he was gay and moved on. I don’t even remember his name or who he was anymore.
FWIW I have had to excommunicate multiple people from my life based on credible accusations of sexual assault. One of them was my best friend.
Genuinely curious, how would you handle it if even one of those credible accusations were completely wrong and uncalled for? I have no idea how I would handle it but haven’t been in your position
That’s a good question. I can only answer this question hypothetically because it’s always been something I was reasonably sure of.
With my best friend, I didn’t want to believe it but the accusation was damning. I ended up becoming close to a girl he raped and she told me herself that it happened. When confronted, my friends story basically amounted to admitting to date rape. The reality was likely worse but that’s immaterial to the end of our friendship.
The other time a good friend of mine essentially told me his plans to date rape a young girl. We were about 18 and he planned to do MDMA with a 14 year old girl alone at his house.
So in both cases the guy essentially told me themselves and just didn’t realize that I wouldn’t see it the same way they did.
I take these kinds of accusations very seriously. I will always believe victims but at the same time it’s demonstrably true that people make false allegations of sexual assault and it ruins lives.
I think we have to be hyper critical of these kinds of accusations. By getting this wrong we run the risk of causing these accusations to lose weight and meaning. That being said we need to be hyper critical in a way that doesn’t cause real victims to feel like they can’t come forward. I won’t say I know what that looks like exactly.
If I found out that I had removed someone from my life due to a false accusation like this I would be very upset. I would feel used and manipulated and I would be actually more upset at the false accusations than I ever was as the alleged rapist. In my view the false accuser has hurt not only the accused and myself, but they have hurt every single legitimate rape survivor.
I really don’t have the answer to this myself but I think the best people to ask would be rape survivors and people who have been falsely accused.
Thank you for responding, I really appreciate your attempt. I complete understand that it is hypothetical until it happens you just can’t really know.
I know survivors and at least one person who was falsely accused (it was found out and was revealed within a reasonable timeframe in the whole shit show that was happening)
And I have had this come up in a couple times in conversations, its actually what prompted me to ask you.
And I think you are absolutely a good person to ask, because while it sounds like you know a lot more people than I do, I was asked this same question, in different forms, from multiple people and like I mentioned, I really don’t know how I would feel about it really until it happened.
But it would anger me a lot I have no doubt. I would feel like I threw away someone who needed me when it was just important.
I don’t know how I would handle being falsely accused and getting convicted of it. I wouldn’t want to live with living through the people in my life all believing this about me, it’s a small pool by most standards and that makes them very precious to me. It could very well be the end for me by me. And I’ve been told by better than myself it isn’t a surprising result.
But like I have been sexually assaulted, and while I’m careful to acknowledge that my experience, while valid, isn’t typically useful as a comparison. It does leave me with a lot of compassion and empathy.
What is important is that anyone who is a victim, can speak to the right people, or have someone speak for them with their consent, on their behalf. I was fortunate, entirely too many people aren’t.
And the real kicker is that we are all imperfect so we get shit wrong sometimes no matter how much we try to do right
Plenty of men know Trump
Probably because most rapists are repeat offenders which makes more rape victims than rapists, if I had to give a legitimate guess. That and non-rapists tending not to associate with people they know are rapists.
Well, rapists don’t brag about it probably, but women will talk to each other for support.
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You think Trump and his friends didn’t talk about what they did? The same guy that can’t keep his mouth shut about anything? The same guy that has to constantly talk about how amazing something he did was?
Unfortunately, I think they do, but only to their like-minded friends.
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It bothers me that anyone pointing to the majority of men who are not rapists, is getting branded as a rape apologist.
As a guy, I can say with certainty that I’ve never been involved in, nor known about anyone who was the perpetrator of rape.
I firmly believe that the perpetrators, specifically the male perpetrators of rape, if they tell anyone, they say it as a regular sexual encounter. Ladies, we don’t go into details taking about who did what in the bedroom. The most I’ve ever heard from any guy about their sexual exploits, is that they happened “I banged her” (or similar), and sometimes a quip about the experience or the person, eg: “it was great” or “she’s a freak (in bed)” or similar.
The reason we don’t know that the people we know are rapists, is because they’re not coming out and telling us about it. I promise, if they did, they wouldn’t be free for long. They’d either end up in jail, or beaten bloody by the majority of us (or worse).
Generally we just don’t say much about what happens in the bedroom, to eachother.
You didn’t have to tell us you are a man, it was obvious. What you just did is provide a great example of why we need better education on gender based and sexual violence.
Firstly, there is almost a complete certainty that you know a rapist and may even be friendly with one. The overwhelming majority of sexual violence perpetrators are men and that violence is facilitated through the nuclear family model and social ostricization of men who challenge rape culture.
I have had multiple women in different generations of my family disclose sexual violence from men beloved by dozens of people who were none the wiser. I have sat at tables where men make jokes about getting women drunk on purpose like it doesn’t reflect lived experiences only for other men to laugh along enthusiastically or nervously. I have been in classes where men discuss harassing women in the workplace without it being challenged. I could not name the amount of friends I’ve lost when I challenge them on their views, all of them have been men. Every one of those personal experiences reflects statistical data we have on sexual violence rates and rape culture reproduction.
You seem to have this fantasy that rapists are men who jump out of the darkness to prey on strangers, but they’re your friends and family who prey on those you know. They do talk about it, all the time. Whether they’re talking about the act of rape or why rape is okay, they talk about it. You cannot insulate yourself from this culture without abandoning the responsibility to challenge it.
When you say shit like, “not all men,” you’re admitting to an insecurity you have about the potential injustice of rape accusations and the association between manhood and sexual violence. Too bad, you’re in it and have to choose to challenge it or continue to participate through inaction. The fear of false rape accusations is almost completely unfounded in a world where women face consequences for reporting and convictions of sexual assault are so difficult to get. False convictions are so statistically rare and acting like they arent shows that you value your comfort more than believing victims. Men are the vast majority of rapists and most women have experienced gender based or sexual violence at one point in their lives. As long as they exist in a culture where that violence will most likely come from men and most men do not challenge it, manhood will be associated with sexual violence. When you say that if a cartoon rapist should ever appear you’ll give’em a wollop, you’re subscribing to an imagination of sexual violence that obscures the reality of its frequency and potential vectors. You’re telling the women around you that you do not care about what they experience and only think of rape as a vector for you to fulfill the masculine fantasy of violently punishing a rapist to protect the poor, helpless women.
This is all of course ignoring your fundamental misunderstanding of what rape is when you discuss it as though it’s a form of sex. There is no discussion to be had about whether men kiss and tell about rape because rape is not sex. It is about violence and power. It happens at high rates in highly patriarchal societies exactly because of the brutal hierarchy of power that must be maintained for that patriarchy to exist.
I don’t care if most men don’t rape, most rapists are men and the greatest resistance we get to challenging rape culture is from men. If that bothers you, learn.
congrats on not reading their comment
You guys hate it when people can read you beyond your control.
Edit: people can see who you are even if you don’t want them to. Many of you are too uncritical about your values to hide them so you say them plain without even realizing.
You haven’t read me at all. I stopped reading your reply when you started making false assumptions about me, on opinions and subjects I didn’t even mention.
You need to assume less and listen more.
Given your propensity to defend the victims of rape, I would hope you at least listen to them rather than make wild assumptions about their lived experiences.
Do not presume to know me. Do not put words in my mouth.
tldr
Congratulations! You just alienated a fuckton of potential allies with that speech. No, most of us don’t feel any kind of group obligation. As a matter of fact, we are sick and tired of being told by society “fix this, fix that”.
So now, most of us are a sort of zen nihilist. We give a shit, sometimes.
Username suggests this is satirical but comment history is inconsistent with that theme.
Just in case: “Alienating” people who are already not interested enough to change isn’t a loss. You don’t focus on reaching those people, you make them too uncomfortable to be vocal. It’s why eco activists don’t give a shit if a boomer is mad about them blocking traffic, their goal is to make sure the boomer can’t drive home in comfort. Comfortable people are the lifeblood of this system.
The rest I don’t think people will care about enough to respond to like, yeah conservative and liberal men are caged by individualism we all know that already and they never shut up about it.
Edit: i regret not making a joke about the one guy who was about to become a feminist sex-activist and assassinate Donald Trump but saw the meanie queer online say that men need to be better and then he just gave it all up and signed up for rape school.
My experience tells me arguing here isn’t worth it.
Now THAT seems satirical, only a fool would think internet arguments aren’t productive…
You are throwing stray shots, alienating everyone of a certain gender by essentially accusing them of being tolerant of rapists. Also going out of your way to cast as large of a net as possible, by making a vague statement about violence being rape.
The people who are reading this are strangers, and not buddy bud with you. They have their job, their responsibilities, their own worries.
Either you are unreasonable on purpose, or baiting. Either way, it’s not worth it for me to argue when I have my own worries and male SH to deal with in the morning.
It’s not worth it.
Times like this, remind me of the boy who cried wolf.
Oh no, a potential feminist sex-activist saw the meanie queer online and will no longer assassinate Donald Trump. Why did I have to be such a meanie oooh the hubris and righteous fury!!
Edit: lookit that i got to make the joke. Seriously though, this makes men sound more fragile than I ever presented them.
Yeah, the notion that any man is ever informing anyone he knows that he imposed his sexual will on a woman without her consent, is patently absurd.
It bothers me that anyone has ould bother to point out not all men are rapists. We aren’t talking about or to you. Why do you feel the need to say something that everyone knows?
Its because on some level, these people know that people like them have done bad shit and they want to defend themselves.
It ain’t about you dickhead.
You realize the image implies men covering up for other men right?
Do you think men just talk to each other about all the felonies they committed?
But it is. Because I see time and time again in the comments here that if I’m male, I’m either an apologist, or a rapist. This thread has disenfranchised an entire gender.
I have all the empathy in the world for victims. I am not one of them, nor am I a perpetrator. I would, quite readily, turn in any person I know if they were a self admitted rapist. Moreover, I would entrap them by recording their confession, and submit it as evidence against them.
I don’t wish to diminish the point made in the OP, it’s important to recognize the victims of rape. The fact is, the perpetrators are not exactly bragging about raping someone, so they don’t exactly stand out. If they did, they wouldn’t remain a free person.
I get the point in the OP, but the comments here have been extremely toxic, branding every man who replies as either a rapist or an apologist.
It’s disgusting that someone would regard an entire gender as one, or the other. Many of us don’t know if we even know anyone who has committed the crime, and never thought about it beyond the fact that it’s a bad thing to happen… These bystanders are now apologists?
Your victim complex is massive my guy. The reason people shit on you for saying this is because the act of saying it implies it needs to be said. You don’t even read your criticism but you assume it isn’t constructive because you imagine it isn’t.
Once again because obviously you don’t like reading: It does not fucking matter if most men aren’t rapists when overwhelmingly most rapists are men and most men do not challenge rape culture. That does make most men dangerous for women. Reconcile that with your experiences.
Right now, you are an example of how men make themselves a problem by not even considering they’re wrong because they’re insecure about being a man. Nobody is fucking saying men don’t get victimized, they are correctly identifying that nearly 100% of cases of sexual violence is directed at women and the vast majority of men are complacent in a culture that perpetuates that violence. Making it about you because you don’t like the association of manhood with sexual violence is in fact detrimental to discourses that seek to acknowledge sexual violence at all.
You DENSE mother fucker.
It does not fucking matter if most men aren’t rapists when overwhelmingly most rapists are men
How can you unironically write this while calling anyone else dense? This is equivalent to arguing that all fruits are apples, because all apples are fruits.
Do you sink in mercury?
the vast majority of men are complacent [toward rape]
That’s a lie, though. You’re lying. Your deep sexism against men has led you to assume a total lack of humanity and empathy in half of the world’s population. You’ve dehumanized them so profoundly that the very act of a male contradicting your prejudice infuriates you enough to double down while calling him a “DENSE mother fucker”.
For shame.
Then stop saying all men are rapists. Stop treating men like theyre all rapists. Stop implying that if I knew my friend was a rapist, he would still be breathing.
I hate rapists as much as everyone else, so why is it constantly being portrayed as though I’m evil and deserve to be treated as a danger just because im a guy?
This sign exclusively implies that men cover for other men. I do not and would not cover for a rapist. Theres a valid point to be made about men and rape, and this sign completely misses it.
No one but you has brought to this conversation the concept that “All men are rapists” and it’s confounding that you don’t understand how much of a stereotype you’re being coming into a women’s space to shout “not all men”.
It’s also a complete misunderstanding of the point women are making there. We don’t believe that every single man is a rapist. Society has this regressive belief that a rapist is always going to be a nasty, creepy, criminal, awful man and that it would be completely obvious to any bystander that there’s something wrong with this dude and to stay away. But that just isn’t the case. So, it’s a warning to women that any man could be a rapist. Even if they’re a respected member of their community, a judge, a politician, a movie producer, etc.
The other thing is the sign is using the word rapist here, but there are also many, many, many other forms of sexual assault, abuse and harassment and I can almost guarantee that you and most men have excused something in the past. My state actually made an amazing PSA about this a few years back now. Because there are so many acts that make women scared, or uncomfortable, that so many men just pretend doesn’t happen.
I’d also like to point out that it’s super ironic that you don’t seem to understand the fallacy of your own hubris. You’ve walked into an explicitly women’s space, to yell at women, about how it’s “Not All Men”, without consent. Maybe you and the other men in this thread should sit with that for a bit?
We already know the truth about this guy. Just block him.
Can you please explain your chain of logic here?
Its because on some level, these people know that people like them have done bad shit and they want to defend themselves.
Agreed.
I am a man and I am a victim of repeated child sexual abuse. It has broken me forever. While I don’t feel comfortable explaining what effects it had on me, let’s say that I’ll never be a normal functioning person because of what was done to me.
To what you said I would like to add that some of us are victims too and being generalized and then labeled as rapists or apologists is so fucking triggering, it’s actually madening. The idea of being associated with my perpetrator is intolerable.
I get it that sexual misconducts are more prevalent in men, but something like 1 in 6 boys will experience some sort of sexual abuse. That is a shitton of victims being labeled as rapist apologists.
Anyways, like you, I think we can have this discussion without aggressively accusing all members of a given gender.
Especially lately with all the Epstein stuff being discussed, I’m sure I’m not the only one feeling trapped in a constant spiral of flashbacks and stuck in a non-stop dissociated state especially that there is no accountability in sight.
In any cases, let’s have compassion for all the victims no matter their gender or sex and let’s focus our anger toward the abusers.
I don’t think it’s possible for me to agree with you more.
I will only add the I empathize with you and all of the other victims regardless of gender. Please know that you are valued for who you are, not what has happened to you.
Be well.
I’m locking this thread while I clean it up.
If 1 in 100 men is a rapist, then he can rape a lot more women than 1 in 100. Very few people are responsible for most occasions, similarly with divorces, etc.
Also why would anyone admit to being a rapist?
No, the rate is around 30% of men have engaged in sexually aggressive behavior. It is endemic in our society hence why the majority of women have been sexually assaulted in their lifetime.
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I guess this sub attracts a lot of incels.
Scratch a man, an incel bleeds?
Probably accurate for this sub at least.
I will never forget taking my 16 year old babysitter to the Trooper Station after she was raped just to have an officer talk her out of pressing charges because the rapist was the son of a cop.
Everywhere. They all seem to be like this. And they’re all so disingenuous about it.
This is insultingly untrue
Sure, whatever a bunch of rape apologist males say.
If you actually think nearly a third of all men are rapists, you need psychiatric help. That is literally insane.
Well the world is insane then. Every women I have got to know in my life has been sexually assaulted including my mother, wife, and daughters. It is endemic in our society.
Thirty percent is actually a low estimate. In some studies almost forty percent of college males admit to using some form of coercion and ignoring consent. Fifteen percent of these would be considered rape by the laws of their jurisdictions.
Keep in mind these studies relied on people being honest so the actual numbers are much higher. There is also a huge disparity between sexual assault and sexual assault arrests and convictions.
Less than 4% of reported sexual assault end in a conviction. So that means there are a shit ton of people who will never face any consequences for what they did. Furthermore this does not even count all the sexual assaults that are not reported.
It is estimated only one third of sexual assaults are even reported. This is due to the stigma women face for reporting. Many don’t report because it is someone close to them and they are afraid. The ones that do report are often not taken seriously and dismissed without a report even filed.
I have personally witnessed this when I saw a trooper talk my sixteen year old babysitter out of pressing rape charges because the boy was the son of a city cop.
I am also a social worker by trade and I have worked for social service agencies like child welfare. I can confirm in my professional experience that sexual assault is an epidemic in our society
I have also worked with adult sexual offenders in the jail and through reentry programs. I know what it takes to bring a rapist back into the community. So don’t even play that I am crazy.
Yeah! How dare they insult statistical-you with statistics!
#notallmen are 50% of men!
Made up bullshit isn’t a statistic
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Don’t cite sources. This isn’t about truth.
This you?
If you think it is, you can prove it. Again, just doi# is fine; no full link required; im just gonna look it up on scihub.
Stop trying to downplay rape by calling it “sexually aggressive behaviour”, you rape apologist.
This is Witches versus Patriarchy not White Male Rape Apologist vs. Reality. Read the fucking room.
Says the person refusing to provide the source despite the fact that you presumably have it in front of you. Assuming you’re not making it up.
“White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration.”
"Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "
You seem to be such a nice person.
Please stop trying to help, it just makes it worse.
What’s the definition of sexually aggressive behavior? I’m not doubting this statistic but it doesn’t sound like it’s measuring the same thing here.
A range of actions that involve the use of force, coercion, or manipulation to engage in sexual activity without the victim’s consent. In other words, rape.
Do you have a link to where you got this from?
“White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration.”
"Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "
That is pretty insane actually. I’d still like to read the whole article if it’s available somewhere. Thanks.
It is scientific journal stuff, pretty dry read honestly. You can find all this with Google search still. Cheers!
You have more than enough to look it up on scihub if you arent just a misogynist piece of shit and are asking because you’re genuinely interested
Do you have a source for the number because it seems entirely made up.
“White and Smith (in press) surveyed three cohorts of men across 4 years of college. By the end of the study, 14% had reported committing attempted or completed rape and 34% had reported at least one act of sexual assault perpetration.”
"Almost a quarter (24.5%) of these men acknowledged committing an act since the age of 14 that met standard legal definitions of attempted or completed rape; an additional 39% had committed another type of sexual assault involving forced sexual contact or verbal coercion. "
Don’t cite sources. This isn’t about truth. Men’s feefees don’t care about facts and shit.
Oh yeah, I guessed that. Thanks.
Sorry, just a mistake i used to make a lot; citing sources has never convinced anyone. Closest ive ever seen work is exaggerating a number slightly so they correct you with the real-but-still-very-bad number,
They still don’t give a shit, but they do acknowledge it if you can get them to do that.
You would rather win the argument with one person than serve more people the source to read for themselves? If you quote a paper it should be sourced. If you don’t source it then it is suspicious and you are just creating conflict. Methods are important.
And the link to that study is where?
It is multiple studies, two different quotes.
You got enough information to look it up on scihub if you were actually interested.
I see so you are refusing to provide a link to a study despite the fact that it would so easily prove you right and everyone else wrong.
Seems like maybe the study doesn’t actually exist?
… What does 30% of men have engaged in sexually aggressive behaviour mean?
Like it’s been a long long long tradition that women predominantly prefer to be “chased” and expect men to be aggressive.
30% isn’t a large number, that represents about 15% of the global population about 600 million people out of 8 billion approximately
I think you might want to rethink how you express your argument here because I don’t think this is what you are trying to communicate.
Again, what do you really mean when you use the term sexually aggressive?
well it’s very common knowledge that men don’t confide in each other as much as women do.
Very interesting to learn that the reddit alternative that attracts tech-users/-career workers also happens to express insecure masculinity openly on this version of a feminist subreddit.
And aggressive. Their hate of women really spills out
I have actually gone through and blocked a bunch misogynist assholes that hide under the thin veneer of civility while projecting their insecurities here. I was kind of pissed at first but now I know peace not ever having to talk to these incels ever again.
Yeah it is a shame that this alternative to reddit seems to have attracted a lot of the dudes who made that site so obnoxious.
They got kicked off Reddit, they didn’t voluntarily leave. It is pretty obvious.
Except reddit has also gotten more fascist in the past year because of bots and emboldened chuds.
That sucks, I have a lot of fond memories of Reddit.
I honestly don’t lmao, it’s been chuds pretty much as long as I can remember
Fair enough, it did get pretty bad before I dipped out.
This is - and I cannot overstate it - a joke.
If ypu have to put that kind of a disclaimer on a comment. Maybe yoy should keep it to yourself.
I, calling myself a man, know 2 rapists.
They you say you don’t have ANY mental problem nor any persecution complex
