So many get this backwards.
The languages (there are multiple, including historical languages that explain the transition into the modern languages) came first - by about 40 years.
He did not invent languages for his world. He invented a world to explain how his languages would come to exist.
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Makes sense. The biggest strength of robust worldbuilding isn’t showing it all to your audience, it’s hinting at small pieces of it that shows a connection between them and hints at something deeper. Having what feels like a detailed history makes the world feel real, because you can see shadows of it in the foreground. If you actually dig into all of it explicitly in your story that just makes it feel shallow, because you’re showing the whole iceberg.
It’s why the mystery of the clone wars and Anakin’s apprenticeship and betrayal of Obi-wan were intriguing in the original Star Wars trilogy, but end up just being some action movies once it’s all fleshed out on screen. Depth stops being depth if you bring it all up to the surface.
I wish more writers would understand what you’re pointing out here, I’ve actually stopped reading quite a few books over the years because the actual story takes a back seat to the world building.
Seriously, like Gandalf just means magic elf. So he’s just the magic elf that wears grey. Then he’s the magic elf that wears white.
Names are just that, things we observe, want or expect.
Close.
It means elf with a stick.
Wand-elf?
That’s a possible translation but most people go with staff/stick for obvious reasons
Maybe that’s why Tolkien wrote a ton of books while most of us get stuck in the character creation screen of Baldur’s Gate 3 choosing a name for 7 hours.
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No. he just translated it into treebeard for localization for English speakers. educate yourself.
so many names could be translated from the original language they come from.
Larry? that’s City of Laurels
Remember president Helmet Head, he should have used an helmet (Kennedy)
Also, Shire just means Farm.
And all of the evil characters/places have Arabic or Germanic sounding names.
I love his work, but he was racist. Same thing with Lovecraft, though Lovecraft was more xenophobic because he rarely left the house, and foreigners were scary.
Which evil characters? Azog, Radbug, Morgoth, Sauron, Saruman. Not even remotely Germanic or Arab-sounding. Linguists have drawn comparison between Black Speech and ancient Mesopotamian languages, specifically Hurro-Urartian languages, which originated in what is now the Armenian Highlands. Again, not remotely Arabic, which is Semitic language. The only comparisons to Germanic languages I can think of in the Tolkien universe are dwarves and men.
If you’re gonna accuse a dead person of something awful, have your facts straight.
I had a professor that compared Black Speech to proto Germanic, so if that is completely incorrect I apologize for repeating it.
nah it’s cool. We’re all trying to chase that leftist capital.
Harad/Haradrim/ Swirters were basically Arabic/African dark skinned swarthy people that served as heroless bad guys, unless I missed out on something. https://share.google/GGo7jZXCys45ZC8W7
They were the scary evil guys that brought Oliphants into the battle.
The Haradrim swore allegiance to Sauron after long years of oppression by the Númenóreans and conflict with Gondor, during which Sauron worked to seduce them to his side. However, not all of them joined Sauron. Many sided with the blue wizards. You could draw parallels to modern times; not all Russians support Putin, and not all Iranians support Khomeini.
It’s worth mentioning Dunlendings also went the same way after excessive Númenórean exploitation of their natural resources and resulting wars. They fought for Saruman (Sauron by proxy) alongside Uruk-hai in Helm’s Deep.
Of course the Haradrim were dark-skinned - they were from the southern hemisphere of Arda, the huge landmass south of Gondor and Mordor. Most of it is on or below the equator.
I knew someone that actually read the Silmarillion would be able to correct me. Thank you for the correction.
The man understood what language and names are used for, to say the least.
He also nearly named Celeborn Teleporno, which would have been
awfulamazing.Not “nearly” and not “Celeborn Teleporno”.
Celeborn is his name in the language Sindarin.
Teleporno is his name in the language Quenya.
I think you can see the similarities between “Cele/Tele” and “born/porn(o)”, right?
Similarly Galadriel (Sinadrin) has a Quenya name - Altáriel.
We have very similar situations here on Earth with differences in spelling/pronunciation between languages (and ages): James vs Iacobus or Catherine vs Aikaterínē.
Not “nearly.” That’s actually his name in the “pretranslated” language that the book was “originally” written in, within the fiction.
Hello, my name is Personface
Charles Gunhaver, reporting for duty. Rock, Rock on!
You killed my father
Prepare today
Guy Beardsly
Beardy McBeardface
I am Beefcake McIronribs, son of Beefcake McSteelribs
Mount DOOM has entered the chat
In a world where a guy named Big Balls has had control over federal budget allocations, I can accept this.
I read the entire comment before “I can accept this” in preview guy voice
To be fair, sounds a bit weird when you speak his name in portuguese…
Guy who walks around the forest: Strider.
Guy who betrays everyone to side with Sauron: Sauron-man.
In my headcanon, that’s not his real name. The books were written after the facts, so I imagine the writers wanted him to be remembered only as a Sauron henchman, erasing him from history.
In my headcanon, that’s not his real name
It’s one of his names. As an Ainu (a spirit), he was called Curumo.
Really, your headcanon has some precedent in the books. If Wormtongue had written the history, he literally would’ve called Gandalf “bad news.” And in fact, Saruman’s actual name was Curumo. …uh, or Curunir. Or Sharkey, or Tarindor, or…
I mean, part of the problem is that every person (and place, and country, and river…) has like a half dozen names depending on who’s talking and what time or place they’re in. Gandalf himself is Greyhame, Gandalf, Stormcrow, and Lathspell in Rohan alone; and Mithrandir, Olorin, Incanus, and Tharkun to other people in Middle Earth.
Aragorn and Strider and Elessar and Estel and Wingfoot and Longshanks are the same person in different contexts. Galadriel is also Alatariel and Artanis and Nerwen. Legolas is Laicolasse and Greenleaf (all three of which, in fairness, mean the same thing in different languages).
And that’s before we even talk about what their names “really” were in the “original” Red Book of Westmarch, before Tolkien “translated” them to English. The “actual” sound that came out of Bilbo’s mouth when he introduced himself was Bilba Labingi, but Tolkien decided that the name Labingi “actually” would’ve sounded like the word for bag or sack to the “original hearers.” Likewise Frodo’s name is “translated” from Maura Labingi and Sam “actually” introduced himself as Banazir Galpsi.
Family who are very proud of their feet: Proudfeet
Guy who is pretty strong and is a blacksmith: Ethan Smith.
All names mean something. Or rather: meant something at some point in history.
