The what race? No one has been working on AI for a while… if he means LLMs and similar generative models there’s only the race to see how long it takes for the models to be so poisoned by being trained on their own slop that they no longer can produce the illusion of giving useful results (seems like the current generation is almost there, already giving diminishing results), and the race to extract as much money as possible from the economy before the first one ends and the bubble pops…
…what?
LLMs are AI. What is this?
I am asking seriously. Can someone explain the context of this nonsense?
Are we really entering a luddite phase again?
Technically, LLMs aren’t ai. What they do is basically predict relationship between words. They can’t reason or count or learn.
“Technically”? Wrong word. By all technical measures, they are technically 100% AI.
What you might be trying to say is they aren’t AGI (artificial general intelligence). I would argue they might just be AGI. For instance, they can reason about what they are better than you can, while also being able to draw a pelican riding a unicycle.
What they certainly aren’t is ASI (artificial super-intelligence). You can say they technically aren’t ASI and you would be correct. ASI would be capable of improving itself faster than a human would be capable.
You are a pedant and a fool.
Careful, my other comment got removed because of a witty but still insightful dig.
They are very sensitive here about how the AI isn’t really AI.
Exactly. Nothing technical about it: they simply produce the statistically most likely token (in their training model) to follow a given list of tokens.
Any information contained in their output (other than the fact that each of the tokens is probably the most statistically likely to appear after the previous ones in the texts used as their models, which I imagine could be useful for philologists) is purely circumstantial, and was already contained in their training model.
There’s no reasoning involved in the process (other than possibly in the writing of the texts in their training mode if they predate LLM, if we’re feeling optimistic about human intelligence), nor any mechanism in the LLM for reasoning to take place.
They are as far from AI as Markov chains were, just slightly more correct in their token likelihood predictions and several orders of magnitude more costly.
And them being sold as AI doesn’t make them any closer, it just means the people and companies selling them are scammers.
Doesnt matter if we take LLMs out of the equations. AI is being worked on in many forms constantly.
Palantir is an example, which makes the statement laughable.
Right.
AI has been worked on for generations. We’ve been benefiting from the fruits of that labor for a long time, mainly starting with search and translations.
Now we have the ability to have a conversation with machines and it is somehow not intelligence?
I am really confused.
Intelligence does not mean consciousness or alive. It is means intelligence, which can be summarized as advanced pattern matching & predictive behavior.
A beetle is intelligent and alive. Is an LLM more intelligent than a beetle? What about an image classifying model, like CLIP? It can perceive and describe objects in an image in natural language, what insect can do that?
This is a form of intelligence. It was artificially created. It is artificial intelligence.
We can criticize the corporate and investor approaches, mourn the loss of purpose for many workers and artists, without being delusional about what this technology is.
This is a form of intelligence.
It’s really not though.
I understand where you come from with the beetle example, though I would still consider most living creatures more intelligent.
But it is a diffenition of intelligens we debate now. The beetles intelligens is not interesting for us, but it sure is capable of image, sound and movement capabilities on a much higher level in real time.
No they’re not. They’re fancy autocomplete. Statistics engines. Extremely more expensive but not particularly more capable Markov chains.
Them being marketed as AI doesn’t make them AI, it just makes them a scam.
The thousands of researchers researching it all conspired together, naming it wrong, just to fool you, the one true expert for AI!
Or its just real AI.
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No one has been working on AI for a while…
It’s rage bait… Or the guy is an ego centric arrogant who thinks the reality is in his 15 headlines a day.
Eh, no.
China WILL win the AI race and that’s because they invested in infrastructure and their power grid.
The US could have done that too, but we gave the money to billionaires instead. Building a surveillance state doesn’t fix any of the mistakes we made and they’ll still win the AI race.
Not to sound like a tankie but China has made smarter decisions with regard to power generation. The current shift away from renewables (and shift back to fossil fuel) AND more reliance on central power generation are great for billionaires but just dumb for every other reason. And with the what appears to be advancing in battery technology more distributed solar cells with local storage would free up more power for the power hungry data centers. Not to mention the AI programs there are not run by douchebags like Sam Altman and Mustafa Suleyman.
I also think the current path of AGI study via more advanced LLM research is the wrong path. A language generator is never going to be “smart”. But what do I know, I don’t have billions of dollars and lie constantly.
Yeah china made the selfish decision to completely ignore the climate change agreements and continue to scale fossil fuel infrastructure.
It’s not Tankie to admit aspects of reality. China is doing some things well. China has spent the last 20 years investing in itself, America has spent the last 20 years investing in other countries for a possible ROI for the military-industrial complex.
What would be Tankie would be to then extrapolate from that and say they’re actually the best state in the world and anyone who says otherwise is a imperialist brainwashed pigdog.
So we need to start covert anti-corruption efforts n China, since China will win, we don’t want a single party member destroying the world…I don’t know what we can actually do, but it is crucial for the human race that China develops more benevolent values if at all possible.
I don’t know what we can actually do
Make it easier for Chinese Nationals to study abroad, educate them on the idea of government transparency, separation of powers, checks and balances, the idea that government legitimacy comes from the people, idea of social contract, etc… Hope they bring back the knowledge to fix the country from within.
(Btw, Overseas Chinese helped topple the Qing Regime and ended monarchism.)
I get a sense that in the CCP, you wouldn’t get into any position with actual influence unless your peers and superiors have some leverage on you (they know you’ve done done shady shit which they can expose if you become a nuisance).
So in that way, actually interparty radicalism is curtailed.
Both CCP and US Republicans are evil, but republicans are also stupid.
Evil would obviously win against Evil+Stupid
Not that. Because their IP and copyright and patent laws are softer, and also more bendable. In practice those laws don’t matter much.
Now “AI”, surveillance and such are ways to bypass those stricter laws on IP in the west. Technologies exist in some socioeconomic context. A big company doing surveillance and “AI” breaking those laws doesn’t expose that it breaks those laws often, and when it does, it can sustain pressure to get its way.
So the appeal of these technologies is to launder data. Which is, fundamentally, same as perfect obfuscation of executable code. And other such things.
That’s money against right, money wants no reverse engineering, no alternative compatible software, no examination of what their stuff does, and no responsibility for the data used. While in right, of course, examination and compatible tools being possible and verifiable supply chain and so on are basic for industrial civilization.
If any of you dumb fucks don’t think we already live in a surveillance state, you are part of the problem
The biggest conspiracy theory of my lifetime was the government was intercepting all communication and it was proven completely true.
Hell no
Let me second that… Oh hell, no
If you’ve never seen this guy giving a talk, it’s worth looking at. This guy is a total tweeker. Can’t sit still, and has insane thoughts he’s just willing to say in public.
What’s crazy is I agree with some of what he says, but disagree entirely with his company.
Basically, he says the Antichrist promises security in exchange for giving up your freedom. However, his company does exactly that, it promises security in exchange for taking away freedom from the people. So at best he’s a hypocrite and at worst an accelerationist.
I agree that people are willing to trade freedom for security, but I disagree that’s what governments should do. Governments need to protect freedoms first, and security second.
Oh! This must be the guy who was called out on that exact thing and it gave him serious pause before he was able to jump-start the bullsh-tting part of his brain.
Why can’t we win the AI race and still not have a surveillance state? Those don’t seem like they have to be linked…
Because this would be bad for his business
because the government subdidizes the company that would have the survellience tech, which is stable profit.
“A surveillance state is needed to beat china who is evil because it’s a surveillance state”
The difference between developed world democracies and other governments is that all opposition parties are allied with CIA and by transposition, Israel. Divisiveness purely to achieve maximum corruption is formula for rulership, and praising “freedom supremacy” is just a tool for corrupt warmongering. The only protection from CIA overthrow is to fight their hybrid control, and disruptive terrorism, operations. Chinese government is not trying to oppress their citizens or economic pluralism. If surveillance allows unattended ebike charging, and no crime, then that is a net benefit compared to loss of making WInnie the Poo jokes.
Palantir, more than all other US tech oligarchs, is dedicated to Israel supremacy, and Israel/Palantir now embraces full Trump/MAGA platform because fascism is more pro Israel/Oligarchy than pluralism. The absurd pace of AI investment in US is entirely based on the certainty that the US govermnent/military will buy all of the datacenter time. Destroying US economy to feed tech and climate terrorist energy oligarchs.
War on China and Russia is a losing proposition for both humanity and the west. Collapse is destined because for the last 25 years, “we must bankrupt ourselves, or humanity wins” has been the bipartisan CIA/Israel mantra that no one ever challenges, and news media feeds 24/7.
All big tech is firmly allied with US empire, and all of them are very polite to MAGA/Israel, with data collection used to help it. Palantir has the software to mine it effectively. US oligarchy, Palantir/OpenAI/Oracle/Tesla has been especially desperate this week. All the money, explicitly, must be given to them or China wins. It’s not even core science/technology anymore, its pure software/datacenter oligarch giveaways needed.
Everybody Sucks Here
Chinese government is not trying to oppress their citizens
yes they are
I will never understand the hypocritical surveillance state apologism when it comes to China or Russia on this site.
If China’s surveillance state was purely for the benefit of their citizens, they wouldn’t need such an extensive censorship apparatus that frequently censors minorities and minority beliefs (e.g. LGBT topics) as well as content that reflects particularly poorly on the government.
If China’s surveillance state was purely for the benefit of their citizens, they wouldn’t need such an extensive censorship apparatus
The freedom to lie and defraud, with money = speech, therefore money = terrorism, fraud, oppression is not constructive. Divisiveness and hate is not constructive. Inviting CIA to dominate your country’s speech is inviting terrorism, fraud, oppression as we see in every US colony.
Repressing American Oligarchist values propaganda is necessary for any constructive society. Nothing about them has the slightest humanist value. Gay pride is just as much a supremacist overstep as religious pride. AFAIK, there is no criminality (even in Russia) for homosexuality or religion. The supremacism is oppressed. CIA needs the divisiveness of supremacism/evangelism in order to destroy/conquer vassals.
There’s a difference between the freedom to be gay (exists in Russia), and the freedom to advocate for LGBT supremacism with CIA funding.
This seems like a) you didn’t read the article, and b) that you yourself are homophobic.
AFAIK, there is no criminality (even in Russia) for homosexuality or religion.
You don’t know shit about fuck.
Precisely. Just ask Naomi Wu (SexyCyborg) how much she enjoys the surveillance state, how much she enjoyed being disappeared for a few months, how much she enjoys being told not to do any more techno State Resistance content, and how much she enjoys being able to leave but can’t, because her partner is queer.
Really, its a bunch of people who either like being in an in-group and/or they like feeling superior/powerful by promoting authoritarian communism.
So no different the America. Just that America is going after the “Illegals” right now.
why is this the staple response? “yeah but america”
Right? How about neither option? How about Authoritarianism is bad, regardless of who’s doing it?
Two things can be bad at the same time.
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I will never understand the hypocritical surveillance state apologism when it comes to China or Russia on this site.
People get brainwashed to conform, when they don’t like a side they urge to pick another
It’s hard to tell if a post like this is intentional propaganda, or just “the enemy of my enemy must be my friend” brainwashed babbling.
Instead of “China is not trying to oppress its citizens” it’d be more accurate to say that China is not in the state of advanced decline that requires [as much] oppression of its citizens to maintain power and control. Everything else, unfortunately, is spot on.
Even left as-is, it’s a far cry from “intentional propaganda”. What motive would there even be to spread such? Do you imagine hordes of self-hating Americans, Chinese bots and shills, and China stans are behind every post that criticizes the U.S. and praises China? Or that someone somehow managed to “brainwash” a significant portion of the population into believing complete fabrications and/or turning their allegiance to China?
The reality is that most people have a far easier time believing pleasant fictions and ignoring inconvenient facts than they do swallowing their pride and conceding to an enemy. On the Internet it’s pretty much everyone, and the rare exceptions must be eradicated. Case in point.
“x country has GOOD state surveillance of its people. Not BAD surveillance of its people like Y country” can only ever be propaganda.
its silly to pretend otherwise and we’re not having a serious conversation at this point.
But I do imagine that every single post which promotes, as a positive, the oppression of a people’s freedom and dignity by their own government, is either propaganda or the product of a loathing so deep it manifests in an illogical rose tinted view of any perceived competitor.
I think fundamentally a lot of people do not understand that just because China and Russia (or a number of other countries) are in opposition to the US doesn’t inherently make them “good.” They’re pretty much all shitty too, just in different ways than the US, yet actual problems get brushed off as “the loss of making Winnie the Poo jokes,” as if not being able to make jokes on Weibo is the problem.
Western governments are complete fucking corrupt shit. China’s simply is not, but at very least, not purposed to collapse and destroy itself or its society. The propaganda mill is the one telling you your democracy is working. If only DNC can regain power, then we can fortunately restart the full fledged support for war on Iran and Russia, and finally achieve Trump’s 5% of GDP for military spending target.
Look at Covid response. Is trying to keep deaths at 0, oppressing its people? US government policy was to destroy blue cities through overwhelming pandemic, and side with those complaining about the inconvenience of public safety, by forcing workers into the crowded mines.
I didn’t mean to imply that China’s government is perfect. But as long as CIA desires its destruction, divisive/treasonous/oligarchist speech cannot be permitted. My main point is the absolute complete corrupt evil shit our governments are. The megalomaniacal alliance forces world to be shit too, though, to return to controversy, the free world is actually the non-US aligned world.
Two things can be bad at the same time.
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Democracy in general is supposed to lead to truth and pluralism. An establishment preferring to retain power will fake democracy as a tool to validate that power. This/democracy provides the result you deserve.
“we need to win the surveillance state race”
Punchable face.
Also, Butlerian Jihad When?
It is sad and mystically abysmally ironic that all the books written about dystopias are seemingly being read as manuals
the muad’dib manual.
Wait until they get to Leto II
The public needs public mass surveillance on CEOs and the top 1% only. They are the top threat to the world
There is that quick and funny operation that you can do using guilotine (or anything you can get your hands on if you’re creative enough!) that significantly reduce the need for oversight. I agree we should put monitoring around the mass grave in case those ghouls can actually get up. It’s a stretch, but better safe than sorry.
Sure but it’s looking a lot more likely that the mass graves will be for the working class
1000% this.
They’re predators, both sexually and economically, and society has let them get away with their plans for far too long.
How is scaring away smart people going to help you against China?
Any ways to actively help China win the AI race?
Hypothetically, of course.
Other countries are doing it to themselves, no need to do anything explicitly.
I mean, look at the shit hole that is the U.S. now. They are u doing themselves just fine and giving victories to their adversaries.
Nothing is permanent
I can think of one thing that’s pretty fucking permanent…
Let’s not say that too much, and eat a needless ban, shaln’t we?
(I know I butchered it, and I am not sorry)
I know naught what you mention. Myne words only make mention of the Shaft.
Can thyne dig it?
Aliens (even illegal ones) are preferable to an asteroid strike, too.
Too bad they aren’t mutually exclusive.
what about illegal space aliens.
Alex Karp thinks people only care about one kind of surveillance. And he thinks he will alleviate our fears if he gives us a pinky promise not to surveil us in that one way.
That way is cheating.
He later brings this up again, saying that most surveillance technology isn’t determining, “Am I shagging too many people on the side and lying to my partner?” Your guess is as good as any as to what that’s all about.
Well, thanks for clearing that up, Alex. That was indeed my sole concern.
(The rest of the article is full of indecipherable quotes from Alex, which demonstrates you don’t need to be smart to be rich.)
