They… don’t have brains, that’s proven. Sure, they can process information, but so can mushrooms and even some plants, such as trees. Will you stop eating those too?
There are so many things you can’t prove and yet still act upon, this is a stupid conversation. For literally every other animal out there, it’s proven that pain is only felt once it reaches the brain. Why would you somehow assume muscles now have a mini brain to process it locally.
How can you not? It’s the case for every other animal out there (knock them unconscious and they no longer feel pain). How would one even have what it takes to feel anything without a brain? Reacting to a stimuli and understanding it is not the same.
Besides, by this same logic of “this can’t be proven”, it also can’t be proven plants don’t feel pain, since they also have the equivalent of nerves and response to stimuli.
It makes no sense that a living creature would not have a system in place to detect and avoid harm. Whether we see it as suffering from our point of view or not is irrelevant.
Will you stop eating those too?
I can and have. The primary thing that should inform one on what to eat is and should always be nutrition.
I can and have
You… don’t eat plants and mushrooms anymore? What kind of diet is left then?
It’s the same with plants, they too react to stimuli, that’s how they avoid harm. Like how some plants become “soft” in the face of harsh weather to avoid breaking. Or others physically move. If you cut a plant but not fully, you can see the plant try to repair it. How is this any different from a brain-less animal reacting to its stimuli?
I don’t see avoiding suffering as a tenable or even meaningful way of deciding what to eat, and so I choose based on the effects of what I put inside my body. I eat only animal sourced foods.
How is this any different from a brain-less animal reacting to its stimuli?
I don’t think it is any different at all. A narrow definition of “suffering” is reductionist and inadequate.
I mean I agree, I’m all for a plant-based diet for health reasons. But most vegans out there, including the one I was responding to, only use suffering as their argument. Here the part I disagreed with was the “always morally wrong” blanket statement.
They… don’t have brains, that’s proven. Sure, they can process information, but so can mushrooms and even some plants, such as trees. Will you stop eating those too?
I eat all kinds of animals. I’m just saying you can’t prove muscles can’t suffer
I don’t get it. Pain is processed in the brain, and they don’t have one. Are you implying the muscle itself somehow feels pain? But what processes it?
I’m not saying they can suffer. I’m saying you can’t prove they are incapable.
There are so many things you can’t prove and yet still act upon, this is a stupid conversation. For literally every other animal out there, it’s proven that pain is only felt once it reaches the brain. Why would you somehow assume muscles now have a mini brain to process it locally.
I haven’t assumed any such thing.
Since a brain is required to process pain, how else do you suppose they would feel it?
I don’t know how you can begin to try to prove this
How can you not? It’s the case for every other animal out there (knock them unconscious and they no longer feel pain). How would one even have what it takes to feel anything without a brain? Reacting to a stimuli and understanding it is not the same.
Besides, by this same logic of “this can’t be proven”, it also can’t be proven plants don’t feel pain, since they also have the equivalent of nerves and response to stimuli.
It makes no sense that a living creature would not have a system in place to detect and avoid harm. Whether we see it as suffering from our point of view or not is irrelevant.
I can and have. The primary thing that should inform one on what to eat is and should always be nutrition.
It’s the same with plants, they too react to stimuli, that’s how they avoid harm. Like how some plants become “soft” in the face of harsh weather to avoid breaking. Or others physically move. If you cut a plant but not fully, you can see the plant try to repair it. How is this any different from a brain-less animal reacting to its stimuli?
I don’t see avoiding suffering as a tenable or even meaningful way of deciding what to eat, and so I choose based on the effects of what I put inside my body. I eat only animal sourced foods.
I don’t think it is any different at all. A narrow definition of “suffering” is reductionist and inadequate.
I mean I agree, I’m all for a plant-based diet for health reasons. But most vegans out there, including the one I was responding to, only use suffering as their argument. Here the part I disagreed with was the “always morally wrong” blanket statement.