Yes, this is essentially the sense in which I mean “give.” You got it. This is unironically why the OP image is ragebait – “give” is literally what happened. I don’t know of anyone who would deny the suffragettes and their agitation are the reason women were given the right to vote.
Again: the agitation of the suffragettes might be the reason that men voted for 19A, but without men voting to introduce and ratify 19A, no amount of agitation would have been sufficient. Outright terrorism wouldn’t have worked, without men choosing to vote for 19A. The only other way women would have gotten the right to vote was by using sufficient levels of violence to overthrow the state governments.
That’s the fundamental reason that minority groups–non-white people, LGBTQ+ people, etc.–NEED allies. Unless the majority is willing to vote to give full rights to minorities, unless there’s a sea-change in public opinion, you simply don’t see minorities being given rights equal to the majority.
When you don’t have the right to vote, your actions that make the majority ‘suffer’ can be criminalized, and the people that can vote then have much, much more power to make YOU suffer than you do to hurt them. Look at Iran, or Afghanistan. Do you really think that women in those countries have the ability to affect any change in society at all without convincing the men, and the religious leaders first?
I assume you’ve read The Handmaid’s Tale?
Women at the turn of the century simply did not have enough ability to effectively wield violence to overcome that kind of power. That’s why you need to convince people that DO have power.
You don’t convince those who dont consider you human hy begging.
Voting only matters if they already care what you, at least as a class/population, think. Voting is not power, no more than a text message or a crayon is. If you don’t have something behind it, the currently powrful have no reason to give a single solitary fuck what you want.
Womens liberation did not come from the right to vote. You have it precisely backwards, and there is a left feminist anti-suffrage argument i wont hurt your lib headgristle with.
I say this as someone from part of a group it’s very hard to keep from voting and expects men with guns to drag me out of bed and take me to the camps any month now: fuck you, you’re why I’m going to die. Fuck you. I’m sure you’re privileged enough to survive this, nobody as ferventlu pig ignorant as you could be otherwise, but it will almost be worth it if they get you too. I hope my emaciated corpsey ass is still around to see your shitlib “nobody could have known” panic when they dump you at whatever novelty shit hell concentration camp they build next.
Sincerely: fuck you. Your willful boot picking ignorance has put the round thats gonna kill me in the air. I’m just waiting for it to hit. Mostly alone, because you scum are still obsessed with your juromantic rituals, and im kind of expecting to be snitched out for existing.
You don’t convince those who dont consider you human hy begging.
Correct. You start by convincing them that you’re human. That’s a large part of the reason that there was a very rapid sea-change in gay rights.
I say this as someone from part of a group it’s very hard to keep from voting and expects men with guns to drag me out of bed and take me to the camps any month now: […]
As a 2A enthusiast, THIS IS WHY I’VE BEEN TELLING LGBTQ+, WOMEN, NON-WHITE PEOPLE, AND RELIGIOUS MINORITIES TO GET FUCKING ARMED FOR THE LAST DECADE. Unless and until you can build a coalition that agrees that you are human, and have rights, you need to be able to use violence as a tool to protect yourself, and your community. This is why I’m a firearms instructor, this is I offer free training to and LGBTQ+, non-white, non-christian, or non-male person that wants it.
You convince them by making them afraid. Fear and violence is the only dialogue with one who is steadfastly determined not to understand you or regard you as himan.
You don’t have nearly enough ability to make them afraid. You may be able to wield enough violence to save your life from an immediate threat. But not a determined campaign
As I said before: Afghanistan, Iran.
You simply do not have the ability to wield violence on a scale that would actually make them afraid enough to give you equal rights–rather than increase their desire to exterminate you and people that believe the way you do–so you need to convince them.
Gay people got acceptance because they started becoming visible in popular media, people started publicly coming out of the closet, and that humanized gay people. It’s easy to hate gay people with they’re just a concept; it’s much harder to hate gay people when it’s your neighbor that’s been helping with your backyard BBQ for the last decade. We went from gay people getting fired simply for being gay to marriage equality in less than 30 years. (Yes, Trump et al. are trying to undo that, but at this point support for marriage equality is 68%, and even though it’s going down with Republicans, they’re still at 40%.)
If you dont have enough violence to inconvenience them, then they have no reason to give a shit. End of conversation. Or rather start of conversation that consists entirely of violence.
Don’t tell me about gay rights. I’ve talked to some of the folks who won them. The previous generation of us survived a genocide. We rioted and fought for decades. There’s a rich history there. Do not erase the history of my people for the convenience of your shit lib lies you queerphobic piece of shit.
Yes, this is essentially the sense in which I mean “give.” You got it. This is unironically why the OP image is ragebait – “give” is literally what happened. I don’t know of anyone who would deny the suffragettes and their agitation are the reason women were given the right to vote.
Again: the agitation of the suffragettes might be the reason that men voted for 19A, but without men voting to introduce and ratify 19A, no amount of agitation would have been sufficient. Outright terrorism wouldn’t have worked, without men choosing to vote for 19A. The only other way women would have gotten the right to vote was by using sufficient levels of violence to overthrow the state governments.
That’s the fundamental reason that minority groups–non-white people, LGBTQ+ people, etc.–NEED allies. Unless the majority is willing to vote to give full rights to minorities, unless there’s a sea-change in public opinion, you simply don’t see minorities being given rights equal to the majority.
You clearly do not understand how power works.
Allies are great. You don’t them for voting. If all someone’s willing to do is vote, they are not an ally.
You need to make the powerful suffer. That is the only way to step outside the margins.
Well this is “ally” in the liberal, within-the-system sense of the word. That’s still what most people would see as an ally.
Most people who arent marginalized and dont need anything, yeah. Totally.
You simply don’t get it.
When you don’t have the right to vote, your actions that make the majority ‘suffer’ can be criminalized, and the people that can vote then have much, much more power to make YOU suffer than you do to hurt them. Look at Iran, or Afghanistan. Do you really think that women in those countries have the ability to affect any change in society at all without convincing the men, and the religious leaders first?
I assume you’ve read The Handmaid’s Tale?
Women at the turn of the century simply did not have enough ability to effectively wield violence to overcome that kind of power. That’s why you need to convince people that DO have power.
You don’t convince those who dont consider you human hy begging.
Voting only matters if they already care what you, at least as a class/population, think. Voting is not power, no more than a text message or a crayon is. If you don’t have something behind it, the currently powrful have no reason to give a single solitary fuck what you want.
Womens liberation did not come from the right to vote. You have it precisely backwards, and there is a left feminist anti-suffrage argument i wont hurt your lib headgristle with.
I say this as someone from part of a group it’s very hard to keep from voting and expects men with guns to drag me out of bed and take me to the camps any month now: fuck you, you’re why I’m going to die. Fuck you. I’m sure you’re privileged enough to survive this, nobody as ferventlu pig ignorant as you could be otherwise, but it will almost be worth it if they get you too. I hope my emaciated corpsey ass is still around to see your shitlib “nobody could have known” panic when they dump you at whatever novelty shit hell concentration camp they build next.
Sincerely: fuck you. Your willful boot picking ignorance has put the round thats gonna kill me in the air. I’m just waiting for it to hit. Mostly alone, because you scum are still obsessed with your juromantic rituals, and im kind of expecting to be snitched out for existing.
Correct. You start by convincing them that you’re human. That’s a large part of the reason that there was a very rapid sea-change in gay rights.
As a 2A enthusiast, THIS IS WHY I’VE BEEN TELLING LGBTQ+, WOMEN, NON-WHITE PEOPLE, AND RELIGIOUS MINORITIES TO GET FUCKING ARMED FOR THE LAST DECADE. Unless and until you can build a coalition that agrees that you are human, and have rights, you need to be able to use violence as a tool to protect yourself, and your community. This is why I’m a firearms instructor, this is I offer free training to and LGBTQ+, non-white, non-christian, or non-male person that wants it.
You convince them by making them afraid. Fear and violence is the only dialogue with one who is steadfastly determined not to understand you or regard you as himan.
You don’t have nearly enough ability to make them afraid. You may be able to wield enough violence to save your life from an immediate threat. But not a determined campaign
As I said before: Afghanistan, Iran.
You simply do not have the ability to wield violence on a scale that would actually make them afraid enough to give you equal rights–rather than increase their desire to exterminate you and people that believe the way you do–so you need to convince them.
Gay people got acceptance because they started becoming visible in popular media, people started publicly coming out of the closet, and that humanized gay people. It’s easy to hate gay people with they’re just a concept; it’s much harder to hate gay people when it’s your neighbor that’s been helping with your backyard BBQ for the last decade. We went from gay people getting fired simply for being gay to marriage equality in less than 30 years. (Yes, Trump et al. are trying to undo that, but at this point support for marriage equality is 68%, and even though it’s going down with Republicans, they’re still at 40%.)
If you dont have enough violence to inconvenience them, then they have no reason to give a shit. End of conversation. Or rather start of conversation that consists entirely of violence.
Don’t tell me about gay rights. I’ve talked to some of the folks who won them. The previous generation of us survived a genocide. We rioted and fought for decades. There’s a rich history there. Do not erase the history of my people for the convenience of your shit lib lies you queerphobic piece of shit.
fully agree