The TL;DR is that the organization that controls the HDMI standard won’t allow any open source implementation of HDMI 2.1.
So the hardware is fully capable of it, but they’ll get in trouble if them officially implement it.
Instead it’s officially HDMI 2 (which maxes out at 4k @ 60Hz), but through a technique called chroma sub-sampling they’ve been able to raise that up to 4k @ 120Hz.
However there are some minor reductions in picture quality because of this, and the whole thing would be much easier if the HDMI forum would be more consumer friendly.
In the meantime, the Steam Machine also has display port as a completely issue free display option.
Capitalism is so cool dude I love having inferior transit of 1s and 0s because some group of leeches in California own the shape that those 1s and 0s pass through
I so wish they only gave a complementary display cable and not an HDMI.
They do. But a lot of displays don’t support DP so HDMI is there for them. If you have a capable TV, then there is no issue.
Sorry, brainfarted, I meant cable not port.
I have a HDMI splitter, like a 5 input 1 output thing. I have not used it in awhile. Does HDMI pass through the DRM or is the DRM in the splitter?
The source device (the steam machine in this case) will check with the display and see what the highest HDMI standard they both support is. It may also check if your splitter supports it, but I suspect the splitter is just a passthrough device.
I figured. I also used the wrong term, it is a switch.
I know some HDMI switches will, some won’t and others will strip the DRM and let the picture go through. I had to try several ones to get a conference room TV to work with a HDMI auto switch. Funny it was the cheaper model on Amazon lol
I really wish I could find a TV within my desired specs that had DisplayPort. We will buy a Steam Machine to use it in place of our docked Steam Deck in the living room, so being able to use DP would be amazing.
i want to say you can buy an adapter to get dp 1.4 out of steam machine and into hdmi 2.1 on a tv and should be fine. just has to be a powered adapter i believe
The powered adapters are for the other way around. DP has support for HDMI out without additional components, but ofc the HDMI forum makes converting HDMI to DP like pulling teeth.
Adapting DisplayPort to HDMI with minimal quality loss is child’s play. It’s the other way around that’s misery.
Any cheap adapter cable that supports DisplayPort In to HDMI Out should be perfectly fine.
I just realized I have such cable in my desk (brand new), DP to HDMI 4k 60fps
My spouse need something for the other way around for his desk setup
Those specs sound like HDMI 2 anyway. HDMI 2.1 can do 4K @ 144Hz with HDR. Or apparently even 10K @ 120Hz.
But the big thing with HDMI 2.1 is the cec protocol which doesn’t translate over an adapter unfortunately. But it is a very tiny thing most people won’t care about.
Would be cool if they put one in the box. Would save many sad christmas days as you wait for Amazon to come round with an adapter.
With TVs starting to get USB-C inputs, which are displayport under the hood, hopefully HDMI fucks off.
Ballparking but it will likely take closer to a decade than not for that to actually happen… and I am still not optimistic. And there are actually plenty of reasons to NOT want any kind of bi-directional data transfer between your device and the TV that gets updated to push more and more ads to you every single week.
The reason HDMI is so successful is that the plug itself has not (meaningfully?) changed in closer to 20 years than not. You want to dig out that PS3 and play some Armored Core 4 on the brand new 8k TV you just bought? You can. With no need for extra converters (and that TV will gladly upscale and motion smooth everything…).
Which has added benefits because “enthusiasts” tend to have an AV receiver in between.
The only way USB C becomes a primary for televisions (since display port and usb c are arguably already the joint primary for computer monitors) is if EVERY other device migrates. Otherwise? Your new TV doesn’t work with the PS5 that Jimmy is still using to watch NFL every week.
USB-C adapters for absolutely everything are thankfully quite common now thanks to the laptop/dock industry.
In the sense that we have dongles/docks, sure. In the sense of monitors with native USB-c input? These are still fairly rare as the accepted pattern is that your dock has an HDMI/DP port and you connect via that (which actually is a very good pattern for laptops).
As for TVs? I am not seeing ANYTHING with usb c in for display. In large part because the vast majority of devices are going to rely on HDMI. As I said above.
I’ll also add that many (most?) of those docks don’t solve this problem. The good ones are configured such that they can pass the handshake information through. I… genuinely don’t know if you can do HDCP over USBC->HDMI as I have never had reason to test it. Regardless, it would require both devices at the end of that chain to be able to resolve the handshakes to enable the right HDMI protocol which gets us back to the exact same problem we started with.
And the less good docks can’t even pass those along. Hence why there is a semi-ongoing search for a good Switch dock among users and so forth.
Regarding the Nintendo Switch, it’s because of their engineered malicious USB-C protocol design that makes the console “Not behave like a good USB citizen should”. It’s less of an issue with the peripherals as a whole.
Something that they have continued in earnest with the Switch 2.
there are actually plenty of reasons to NOT want any kind of bi-directional data transfer between your device and the TV
I’ve got bad news for you about HDMI then…
USB-C probably cannot replace either, because the unmating force is too light. A typical HDMI or DisplayPort cable is much thicker, longer and hence heavier than a typical USB-C cable (even those specced to carry high bandwidth, like a thunderbolt cable) because they need better shielding to carry high bandwidth signals long distances - it’s not unusual to need to route HDMI several metres (but USB-C cables that long are unusual because of the different purposes)
For TVs and such it’s useful to have the inputs connect vertically, so that they don’t stick out the back of the device and cause problems pushing it against a wall. Then the weight of the end of the cable is going to be trying to pull the connector out of the TV. DisplayPort connectors can have a latch to deal with this.
Of course, there a ways around this: a new connector, for example. But it does mean that you can’t just leverage the existing pool of USB-C connectors and cables to make this ubiquitous.
The connectors on the back of the TV can be oriented horizontally (like parallel to the screen, not perpendicular), which at least changes the pull force to a torque force, which isn’t ideal but easier to hold on to.
Then the weight of the end of the cable is going to be trying to pull the connector out of the TV.
Just duck tape the usb cable to the back of the TV
To mention, this is also a problem with HDMI (but not DP).
But just have the usb-c insert top down instead of bottom up, include room for a small loop and cable retention to ensure slack doesnt put pressure on the port. This easily allows for fixed connections with usb-c.
There are also side-screw locking connectors for usb-c. With HDMI, a top-screw option was made for more fixed install scenarios. That design is ugly af and uses a massive amount more room than the usb-c screw lock approach.
Could it be done with a tiny magnet?
Anything important enough to be secured you probably dont want to involve a magnet for.
Oh, screw lock as in like some PC tower cables? Yes, that would be really nice, I wouldn’t mind that for a phone.
Exactly that.
Its mostly common on commercial devices still, but it is defined.
https://www.usb.org/document-library/usb-type-cr-locking-connector-specification
As an example:
https://www.startech.com/en-us/cables/usb31ccslkv1m
Though again, a lot of this could be mitigated with a loop, strain relief, and inserting from above into a port rather than letting gravity pull it down. But it would be nice to see side screw locks be more common with usb-c.
That usb-c connector with side screw locks looks like a future I want to live in.
It’s futuristic, but it’s open and not corporate. It’s miniaturized and sleek, yet still mechanically rugged.
A good USB c cable and port can hold quite a bit of weight, I’ve easily picked my phone up by it as long as you don’t make any jerking movements. That’s a lot more weight than a few feet of even a very heavily shielded cable.
Solvable by moving the locking mechanism out of the port and making one that you can retrofit to any cable
Pfft. People using monitors or tvs. I just plug into it and play it in my head.
That’s what the Steam Frame is for.
Better Than Life™
DisplayPort rocks
I used to find it took forever to start showing a picture compared to HDMI on my PC. Getting a new GPU so maybe that will improve things.
What display are you using as well? That sounds quite unusual.
Yeah fuck the video codec mafia and all these proprietary shits like HDMI
You know it reminds me of the academic publishing mafia of Elsevier and the like
Both cartels are leeching off often-publicly funded research.
Fun fact, all of the audio codes are proprietary too. You won’t find a HDMI surround sound splitter on Aliexpress. Say no to HDMI, say no to E-ARC.
If you can find anything to connect it to.
We need to normalize this kind of headline:
“The HDMI Forum, whatever the fuck that means, refuses to support open source software development.”
As a bazzite user, with it connected to my living room TV that only has HDMI ports, yeah this was obviously why Valve said 2.1 isn’t supported at the steam machine reveal.
Because the machine can’t render at higher than that probably
While the steam machine might not be able to run super demanding titles at 4k 120hz+, there’s no reason it couldn’t do that for lower demand titles like indie games or older games. The physical hardware is HDMI 2.1 capable and can use those higher resolutions/fps if the device is running windows, so this is entirely the HDMI Forum limiting the capabilities of the device because it’s an open source device.
At this point just make an “adapter” that captures the disaply port signal and outputs it from a “supported” device
. And players that want to avoid the issue can use the Steam Machine’s DisplayPort 1.4 output, which supports even more bandwidth than HDMI 2.1 (and which can be converted to an HDMI signal with a simple dongle).
So, ship with a dongle.
Doesn’t the system driver need to support the standard?
That’s what I’m saying, it would be more complicated than a dongle, the PS5 has some sorta system that handles this, it would essientally be a device that supports it, that just decodes and encodes the video feed, as dumb as this sounds it’d the only soluations to use on most TVs
At this point stop using HDMI
HDMI needs to die.
I mean the many incarnations of usbc are slowly making headway. For better and worse.
I hated HMDI when it came out, and I continue to hate it.
And what do you use?
DisplayPort?
I see.
Displayport
DVI, of course
Component RCA like god intended
Fuck HDCP.
I tried to stick with DP only, but the tvs with it are getting rarer and much more expensive.
Buy monitors instead. Also saves you the headache of dealing with “smart TV” bullshit.
Do you know of any big dumb TVs or monitors that I could buy in Europe? I only know of Sceptre TVs which are mostly meant for businesses and storefronts but they are extremely hard to get in Europe.
Biggest I found is the Acer Nitro XV275KP3 Gaming Monitor. You kinda pay gaming hardware prices, but given the support for up to 120Hz and HDR10, I was OK with that. It’s mostly used for gaming, anyway.
It used to be that beamers were a way to sidestep the “smart” bullshit, but they started adding that, too. Even the business ones.A 27" monitor will not be anywhere near a replacement for 60" TV, I’m afraid.
That one is 27". I think that’s way too small for the living room. I also consider 120hz to be overkill for some couch gaming and movies.
Do let me know if you find something more suited.
Hard to find monitors larger than a certain size that aren’t exorbitantly expensive, and I do like a large screen when it comes to Couch Gaming and watching TV (well, streaming video, I ain’t gonna pay for a TV license just to watch the one terrestrial TV show I actually care about)
Unfortunately, many large monitors are becoming “smart” now.
I’m not fully up-to-date with bleeding edge display technologies but is there any reason that a passive DP to HDMI adapter couldn’t easily solve this issue? And would it cause Valve any strife to include one in the box?
fuck HDMI
all my homies hate HDMI
Why?
You can look up most of the issues with the standard, but TL;DR: DRM, expensive licensing fees, suboptimal performance compared to DisplayPort, and not able to be implemented in FOSS or even OSS systems (because of the shitty DRM which can be circumvented by an AliExpress splitter lmao)
CEC is not standard even though it should be a standard for hdmi.
I would normally prefer no hdmi at all, but it’s an entry point device so it doesn’t really make sense to do that.
