I am probably quite agender, as I have no intrinsic sense of my gender. I simply accepted my AGAB (assigned gender at birth) without questioning it. At some point, I realized that I don’t feel any connection to this gender, no feeling like other people have. I also don’t see it as something that influences my personality and I don’t apply to gender norms. I just don’t care about gender. (This btw. also makes it harder for me to understand people whose sense of gender is so strong that they even reject their AGAB, although I accept their feeling, of course.) So how do you “feel” gender?
Never felt anything other than male. Fully support trans people though even though I don’t really understand. I’ve never met trans people
With my mouth
UwU
I don’t feel some gender either, but my agab has always felt off, like ill-fitting clothes. Also due to the cultural/societal expectations and limitations instilled during upbringing, which made me further reject the idea of ‘being’ my agab.
I’ve come to think that if I had been assigned the opposite gender, maybe I would have felt it equally ill-fitting.
A few years ago I came across the concept of agender and it resonated. It took off pressure of the need for there to be something, where there is nothing, and it’s ok.
you “feel” it in the ways others treat you. either you’re supposed to protect or supposed to be protected
that being said i am not ok with this mechanism but can accept the role (as in: not getting sick from it) society prepared for me
I don’t know if this helps but I do very much enjoy being female -bodied, like I loved being pregnant and nursing, love having sex, I enjoy the body I am in. I don’t think much about any mental or emotional aspect to being a woman, don’t feel particularly feminine or anything like that.
But I suspect if I had been born in a male body, I would feel “off” and wish for a female one.
One more instance where our language around sex and gender really muddies things.
How so?
Sex means a couple of different things:
- Of the physical characteristics that organisms use to reproduce in a way that combines their genomes, which category an organism or a part thereof fits into at a particular time
- The act of reproducing in this way (short for “sexual intercourse,” but the long version is rare outside formal scientific contexts)
Gender means even more things:
- A euphemism for the first meaning of sex
- The sex (1) that someone wants to have, usually when talking about someone with dysphoria (whose body does not initially match that sex)
- The societal roles that are placed upon people of a particular sex(1)
Trans people were referred to for some time as “transsexual,” because their sex(1) does not match their desired sex(1), but people kept conflating it with sex(2), due to the similarity to words like “homosexual,” which is about sex(2). Thus, it was changed to “transgender,” relying upon (or potentially creating, I’m not sure about the history) gender(2).
This makes discussion of gender(3) more difficult, especially when it does not align with someone’s gender(2), especially when that does not align with that person’s initial sex(1).
The person to whom I replied has a sex(1) of female. They also have a desired sex(1) of female, and that desire is somewhat strong. That’s helpful for them, because dysphoria (incongruity between the two) is by all accounts quite unpleasant. Their gender(1) and gender(2) are both woman.
Because that person is AFAB and satisfied with that, society is highly likely to assign them the gender(3) of woman. However, while they don’t specifically oppose that role, they aren’t thrilled with it either. One can fairly easily imagine another individual for whom the role is hated, but who is also satisfied with their body, making their desired gender(3) different from their assigned gender(3).
What do we call that hypothetical person? Anything to do with “sex” is probably out, because that refers to either attraction or body type. “Transgender” is already in use to refer to people who aren’t satisfied with their body (or, if sufficiently young, the way in which their body will develop without intervention).
“Gender non-conforming” is probably the closest to what we want, but what if the person wants to conform to a gender, just not the one assigned to them? That is to say, what if this person’s relationship to gender(3) is similar to a trans person’s relationship to sex(1), rather than a nonbinary person’s relationship to the same? We could just use the term anyway, but it’s imprecise in this context.
Heck, what word do we use for the person to whom I initially replied? “Cisgender” is more or less correct, but incomplete; they certainly aren’t trans in the common sense, but they aren’t quite as cis as most people either. “Gender non-conforming” isn’t really correct, since they do mostly conform to their assigned gender(3), they just do so out of convenience rather than a sense that that’s who they were meant to be. “Agender” usually implies someone who also doesn’t identify with a sex(1) or gender(1), which is incorrect.
I hope that’s at least a little bit clear. The difficulty in talking about sex and gender definitely extends to talking about talking about sex and gender.
I simply accepted my AGAB
you are cisgender.
I realized that I don’t feel any connection to this gender
this experience lies on a spectrum. for example, genderqueer folks have had their expression scrutinized and oppressed, so gender identity is more of an issue they think about than the average person. basically, you don’t have to exist with a sense of fulfilment or pride to be comfortable as the gender you’ve been assigned. you not having any incongruence implies your comfort level being seen by society as the gender you present.
I just don’t care about gender.
i want to ask if you are certain of this, because simply not possessing any feelings positive or negative about your gender doesn’t mean you’d be fine if you woke up as the opposite or something in-between. i’m generalizing here, but genuinely think of how you’d feel if you transformed into the opposite gender while retaining who you are right now. all of your beliefs, passions, interests, social expectations, public perception, and many, many other things are impacted by gender. not in a direct way for some but a guy interested in childhood education or a woman choosing not to have kids would both face questions and assumptions because of their gender. you would also be forced to see your body and yourself differently because others would treat you as the new gender you are now presenting as. still don’t care?
all of your beliefs, passions, interests, social expectations, public perception, and many, many other things are impacted by gender
That’s all through societal expectations though, isn’t it? You can take any of these things and find that they’re associated with different genders in different places around the world and different time periods. I don’t think it would make sense to say that a trans person is only trans in a specific place and time.
yes, but so is gender. gender is largely socially enforced. these behaviors and habits will be judged based on how you are perceived.
I simply accepted my AGAB
you are cisgender.
Huh? Plenty of trans people accept their AGAB for some amount of time before realizing that it isn’t correct.
i want to ask if you are certain of this, because simply not possessing any feelings positive or negative about your gender doesn’t mean you’d be fine if you woke up as the opposite or something in-between… you would also be forced to see your body and yourself differently because others would treat you as the new gender you are now presenting as. still don’t care?
In my case, still no. I mean, it would be inconvenient to explain to everyone I know why I suddenly look completely different, but beyond that, I don’t think I’d care. Obviously, I can’t know for certain unless it happens, and any experiment that attempted to find out would be absurdly unethical, but I’m as certain as I reasonably can be.
About the second part: Yup. I wouldn’t really care either.
I also don’t care about which pronouns people use referring to me. And while I’m completely fine with my body, having a different one sound doesn’t sound unpleasant. It actually sounds like an interesting experience when it comes to changing perspectives.
Plenty of trans people accept their AGAB for some amount of time before realizing that it isn’t correct.
my bad lol i don’t mean it that way, i meant overall if you are accepting of your AGAB you are living as a cisgender person. you can “accept” it in your mind but remain uncomfortable enough to further pursue lines of questioning, yes, but if you haven’t had any incongruence then i would feel it appropriate to say you are cis.
I’m as certain as I reasonably can be.
i get it, but i have been certain of many things only to have lived the opposite result. my point is that you might not realize how relevant your assumed gender is to your overall personal image until people are constantly commenting on it and noticing it.
I’m cisgender, and I’ve actually done the necessary introspection to investigate myself and think about how I prefer to express myself in terms of gender, regardless of any artificial limitations. I have gradually integrated that into my sense of self. I’m quite comfortable in my own skin, and what could be more sublime? Though sometimes I think I might prefer to have a second penis.
I wanted to die until I got tits. Also growing tits sounded like a good way to not want to die, which I hear is a thought process rare in men.
And I’d like to add, my interests are largely somewhat masculine coded. My personality doesn’t feel masculine or feminine, I’m loud, extroverted, and strong but kind. Or as we say in my family: my mother’s daughter. I did have to put in effort as a kid to not get mistreated for being a feminine, and put extra masculinity into my presentation as a teenager.
My everyday clothing is the normal androgynous style of jeans and tshirts, though over the years I’ve gotten less baggy with it. When I want to look nice I prefer a more feminine look or a feminine take on a more masculine look (leather jacket with bold makeup for example)
Ultimately I do think a lot of society’s gendering of everything is kinda stupid, though existing within it I find it easy to fall into it. That said, I can’t imagine a world in which I as myself would maintain a more amab style body if given a choice nor one in which with that choice barred it would not cause me significant distress to the point of hindering my ability to live.
Ranma 1/2 may have given me some funny ideas as an impressionable youth, but I never wanted to die for them. That’s a pretty important difference.
That’s a show I’ve not heard in a while.
I’ll admit two major things here: firstly I was what would have been described in a more medicalized time as profoundly dysphoric. This is not the majority of people now seen as trans. One of the major wins of the trans community in the early 21st century was that dysphoria shouldn’t have to be life ruiningly bad to get to have it addressed. Secondly dysphoria got worse over time and I had other signs earlier including phantom breasts and maladaptive daydreaming of being seen as a girl even in my early teens.
Like, I would’ve probably been able to transition in 1960s America, though I definitely would have had to put more effort in and jump through a lot of hoops including lying about my sexual orientation. But had I been in the silent generation or a boomer I probably would have done it, despite the personal, social, and financial costs.
This is all not to say liking Ranma makes someone trans, just that for people who are questioning to not take those of us with the most dramatic dysphoria as the baseline.
I honestly feel very similar. The closest I can kinda understand is like a guy at birth wanting to wear a skirt, in which case I say go rock that skirt. Or maybe a girl at birth wanting to feel accepted in certain male dominated activities in which case it’s a problem with those activities and not the girl.
I’m a guy at birth, I guess I identify as a guy but it’s meh. If I was misgendered at most I would make a overly dramatic joke but it wouldn’t effect my physiologicaly.
Just do what you like. Do what makes you happy. You have many paths you can take.
Ask her nicely then softly cup from underneath
no feeling like other people have
Most people don’t really have much of a feeling there either. You just are. If you are cool with who you are, then there is nothing to worry about.
Don’t overthink it.
nothing to worry about.
Well I don’t really worry about anything, I’m fine with how it is :3
Most people don’t really have much of a feeling there either. Don’t overthink it.
But a question which does arise reading this answer is: If most people don’t have a feeling for gender, why does gender even exist in the first place? I view gender as a set of personality traits that are summarized under one term (a gender). If you match the personality traits connected to a certain gender, you have this gender. This makes it easier for people to have a basic overview of your personality without you having to explain much. But if most people actually don’t really correspond to gender norms and don’t have a feeling for their gender, doesn’t gender cease to exist? Isn’t it just your name and your pronouns at this point?
E: I know that gender and sex were (partially are) considered to be the same. It’s more a theoretical question emerging from the current view on gender, I know that patriarchy and stuff prevent immediate practical effect.
Patriarchal control mechanism
If most people don’t have a feeling for gender, why does gender even exist in the first place?
Gender and Sex were synonyms up until very recently, and many people still consider them synonyms. Gender was the ‘nice’ way to refer to one’s sex.
I believe societal expectations of masculinity and femininity have become distorted over time. Conforming to these rigid categories will just lead to sadness.
If you’re a woman who enjoys tinkering with electronics, go for it. If you’re a man who feels comfortable expressing your emotions, do so. Why not explore both while you’re at it?
In matters like these, it’s perfectly fine to disregard cultural norms and follow your own path. There’s no reason to conform to societal expectations that contradict your true self. You don’t need to identify with any specific gender; simply be a human and engage in human activities.
I think gender has become another “tribe” that people naturally gravitate towards and identify with. It seems quite human to desire such social groupings. Thousands of years ago, your family and literal tribe fulfilled this role. Today, we seek similar social connections through other means.
I’m trans, and to be honest I don’t have a good answer for this question. I have no idea what it feels like to feel a gender, but I do know that some of the things I did experience made me feel very much not like the gender I was assigned. I felt incongruous with my body, and confused with how people viewed me. I later learned that’s called dysphoria.
When I saw a speech language pathologist to learn how to talk in a way that wasn’t grating to my ears, she explicitly told me we didn’t need to work on mannerisms or behavior. I still have no idea what she saw, but I don’t act any different than I did when I was a guy. I just get a lot less flak and odd reactions for it.
I don’t know what it feels like to feel a woman any more than I knew what it felt like to be a man though. I just know it fits, if that makes sense.
This makes a lot more sense than anyone else has explained it. Thanks for being honest about your feelings. It does help.
complicated
happy i figured it out though
