Edit: It works! Not beautiful and shows a concerning amount of “Error” lines on startup but it will do. I got VSCodium and ESP-IDF running, at least – and CMake isn’t awfully slow despite it being a crappy 4GB RAM machine (not easily upgradeable). The first boot took a while and I haven’t rebooted since, I guess it will be below 30 seconds next time (Mint on same machine but HDD was about 1 minute).
Edit: I hope I chose the right kernel here, surprisingly not much info online on this! Also, I picked “targeted” because the 10-year-old system does not use any cutting-edge hardware and all drivers should be auto-detected, I think.
After some experience with Linux Mint, I gathered the courage to try another distro. I’d like to turn an old laptop into an IPTV receiver plus FTP/OpenVPN/HomeAssistant server with occasional desktop use. I first installed Windows 11 just in case my family needs to use it (it fucking sucks, the built-in PS/2 keyboard doesn’t work half the time but that’s an issue for later) but now I’ll be turning it into a dual-boot setup with Debian as the primary option. Please give me some encouragement, I’m really afraid of new things.
Old pic: https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d4bf0222-4fc1-42ab-a3e9-464087dec3af.png
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This shouldn’t be a thing of luck, if you are prepared.
No, I’m absolutely not. What desktop environment should I choose? KDE Plasma is tempting - it would be nice to use it before I install it with Arch on my main system - but I don’t need the cutting edge or much personalization. I know XFCE best but GNOME is default… GNOME’s big launcher looks great for the TV but it’s also more resource-hungry and less customizable…
I guess I’ll go with the familiar Windows-style XFCE and maybe add big remote-friendly icons later when I configure an IR receiver.
KDE Plasma is very nice if you come from Windows and don’t mind an environment that’s somewhat heavy on performance - personally, I think it’s the closest, modern Windows-like experience. XFCE is very lightweight, but not very modern, as far as I remember.
Don’t forget, you can also install multiple environments and then pick one from your login screen; that way you can try them all and see what fits best
What desktop environment should I choose
That’s the beauty … You can change any time you want (sudo tasksel) withjout losing your data. or install all of them and choose one each time you login
I have used gnome, plasma, and xfce and they are all fine. I prefer KDE personally but they’re all going to do what you need to do. It’s all down to personal aesthetic preference, and picking one won’t hinder you in any real way. KDE to me just looks super nice out of the box for my taste, and I like the customization.
Well, you can try a Live CD for first contact. Or even a virtual machine, with a complete install of the operating system and desktop environment, without touching your actual system.
I’ve been using Debian with the default GNOME on an old laptop and main desktop and have been very happy with it. Coming from Windows I love that it’s way simpler and I don’t need to set a million options.
But remember the thing with Linux is you’re not locked into anything - So try GNOME or XFCE for a few weeks, then if you still want something else install and switch over to another desktop environment. You could even install all these desktop environments during the Debian install itself and just keep switching every time you log in.
I love Debian. Been using it on my laptop for over a year. Some specific drivers are a little fiddly if you have nvidia graphics but it’s not too bad, lots of good info on the debian wiki.
same here even though i don’t use it much anymore.
for me, it was both the distro that i had used the longest at home due to rock solid stability and it’s become a signal to me that the shop i’m considering working in has rock solid people working on it.
i’m going to miss working on debian in a professional capacity and watching it due it’s thing in real world production capacities for millions of people at a time.
You’ve used Debian for a while? Well, you might know something about one of the problems that were a factor in my hop from Mint: I installed a stable release in 2020 and used the computer as a MMPC every so often, but then I set up a DVI cable to the family Windows PC so the MMPC became redundant, and will be until we switch from satellite to IPTV next year. The computer lay mostly unused for 2 years and then it turned out that it wouldn’t update to a newer, supported release. I gave up troubleshooting that. What kind of distros are most prone to this?
Damn near every distro is fiddly with Nvidia graphics, they’re practically a criminal cartel, they give Nouveau 0 support (ok fine, lately a bit, but probably not enough)
No luck needed, it’ll go fine. You pretty obviously have all the experience you need.
Experience? Yes, but I’m also really clumsy and impatient. Lots of things, hardware and software, broke in my hands because I wasn’t careful enough. At least there is no personal data on the system right now that I could erase.
That’s just part of learning sometimes.
Lots of things, hardware and software, broke in my hands
Some of us call it a talent and made a career out of it…
I like it so far.
Obligatory you should use Arch btw.
(Good luck)
I’ll be installing Arch on my main laptop when I make the disk space and get the motivation (my mental state is almost as messy as the drive). I’ll also take the opportunity to reinstall Windows because it’s an old copy where I chose my real name as the user directory name (I didn’t know better back then), with a space and diacritics, which broke lots of things. But this is a server and I preferred Mint to Manjaro so Debian it is.
I would suggest when you decide to give Arch a go for the first time to start out with something like CachyOS to get your legs under you so you can easily understand it. That being said Arch is painfully easy to install now thanks to Archinstall but going the CachyOS route it’ll install the packages you need and then you can understand what you do and don’t need when it comes time to install regular Arch. Otherwise you might just install Arch and then wonder why some stuff doesn’t work because you didn’t install certain packages.
Why is archinstall “painfully” easy? Do you think its users will do badly at troubleshooting because they didn’t go through a setup process that teaches more about the system?
it’s because with Archinstall it tells you what to do/setup as opposed to the user having to utilize something like the Arch Wiki to set it up. So it acts almost like any other distro install. It walks you through the process.
I spent several hours trying to figure out how to install Arch manually, before discovering Archinstall.
I now have it running on two old laptops.
My main PCs are running Kubuntu though.
If it’s 10 year old hardware, you should be fine.
I’ve only had problems in Debian with brand new hardware where I have to use the backport branch to get drivers (like for wifi.)
Though mainly I use Ubuntu, where I would not have that problem. Not sure why you switched from mint.
Weirdly, Debian currently has a newer version of Xfce than Linux Mint. Not everything on there is out of date.
I tried Mint on my old MacBook pro and it was really slow, impossible to scroll through a website slow. I then installed Ubuntu and had a wonderful experience
Mint is solid, if you use it and it works for you why change? Do you need to bother with windows? What do you use that can’t be done on Linux I wonder? Perhaps work out how to set a VM and try out Debian and even windows in a test sandbox so you’re comfortable with the processes before taking the plunge. Check out KVM, QEMU, and Virt-Manager.
I have worked with VMs before and still use an XP one sometimes. But modern Windows in a VM on an old laptop with 4 GB of RAM? I’ll pass…
I just made the switch from Win 10 to Bazzite Linux some two weeks ago. It worked so great that I should have done it a long time ago.
I recently helped a friend install Debian via sms, it was surprisingly easy, and she had never tried installing Linux before. When installing on a laptop I’d recommend using cable instead of wifi, and then setup wifi when the system is up and running.
Best of luck
Gee! How long did it take to transfer the iso via sms? Did you have to uuencode it?
🤣 🤣 🤣
Just a little warning if you boot both OS from the same drive. Windows update can and will break your bootloader at one point (if not worse, tho that’s rare). Keep a Linux live or rescue stick around in case something breaks.
Yeah, I know this, what a pain… I eventually had to install rEFInd on one of the PCs with dual boot.
You don’t need luck. You chose wisely.
Is a laptop really a good choice for a home server?
What are the pro/cons vs a mini computer like a raspy or sort of? Is it trivial to keep the laptop always on without closing the lid?
I have an Acer dual core running a backup stream from FM for our community radio station. It’s been going 24/7 for 7 years now, hasn’t missed a beat.
Laptops make excellent low power draw servers. Disabling the laptop lid switch is typically trivial. (Tickbox usually)
Also running x86 is an advantage over SBCs like the raspberry pi. Also, use what you have before you buy anything.
I think the biggest advantage of an old laptop is that people often already have one.
You can disable power of on lid close. I ran a dell laptop with a terramaster as a server for a couple of years when I lived in a small flat no issues with it as a general media home lab has a built in UPS too.
Added bonus is that you always have a screen and keyboard attached in case that you can connect to it remotely.
Raspberry Pi is expensive and does not come with a UPS. I already have this mediocre laptop. The Pi cost may recoup itself on the electricity bill but I’m not happy about booting from an SD card.
The only lid problem is that the BIOS of this laptop does not allow turning on with the lid closed (also, there is no Power-on-AC) but I might hack it with a magnet.
Yeah, I probably wouldn’t buy a new laptop for a server, but it’s a great way to re-use what would otherwise be e-waste. I have a 20 year old laptop running as a server, currently just for FoundryVTT, but it works great. 4GB of DDR2 ram, Intel celeron dual core cpu. I stuck a new ssd in it (old hdd died) and it works great, as long as I don’t run any graphical interfaces while I have the server running. One ram stick was bad, but DDR2 cost me about $11. Total hardware cost was around $50 USD.
Thinking about just removing the lid entirely, since I don’t use it graphically (I can hook up a monitor if absolutely needed).
Thanks. Maybe another pro is, that it also comes with a screen, if ssh fails.
I mean, the good old dumb 32" LCD TV should be the primary screen. But maybe mom will want to watch in another room sometimes, in which case she can pull out the laptop and use her familiar IPTV client.
You can run your Pi’s from an sata SSD, I’ve never used SD successfully long term. The lid. Maybe you could tell OS not to shut down when you close the lid and set it never to sleep or turn off? Used that on an old HP laptop (intel 6th gen) with broken screen, KDE, Jellyfin server. Might be worth a look Edit: in power settings…
It’s Debian. Let us know when you have your first real issues with it, probably some time in 2037.
I had some getting it to run on a Chuwi HI8 but the thing is a terrible tablet-PC pretending to be a terrible Android tablet…
I had a fair amount of issues back in the day due to debian having limited support for newer hardware with proprietary drivers. I wouldnt be surprised if that still a thing given Debian’s modus operandi.
Debian now prompts users if they want non free drivers in the installer, and the installer it self comes with them so it can boot on platforms that require it, non free drivers and firmware are also in a seperated repository to non-free and enabling them is independent, selecting non free drivers in the installer will enable the non free driver and firmware repository
See my newest comment with the monospaced text.
But yeah, not a real issue, I fixed it in 15 minutes. Apparently it was foolish of me to want Num Lock on the lock screen (Czech keyboard layout uses the number row for diacritics).
Edit: Now I fixed that too. I can easily use numbers in my password now!
You’ll be fine.
Why is this so ominous?
Lol, no, it’s not supposed to be
You have to be doing something extremely wrong otherwise
Mmm… Let’s reboot and see how fast the new SSD made things! It can’t be worse than 60 seconds with Mint (or 300 seconds with Windows) on the HDD!
*chuckles* I’m in danger!
Debian GNU/Linux 13 mmpc tty1 mmpc login: _Edit: fixed. I had broken lightdm by adding the numlockx on script in the wrong place, too eager to get a lock screen with an enabled Num Lock
And the boot time is 20 seconds, on par with Windows somehow.
Good luck! And don’t forget to add the non-free-firmware repo and maybe the other additional ones if you need them. A standard Debian comes without. And if you’re following an old tutorial, that might not cover the split between non-free and non-free-firmware which happened somewhat recently in Debian terms. Their own documentation is good and up to date, though.
