- cross-posted to:
- science_memes@mander.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- science_memes@mander.xyz
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Rice needs just as much processing. Do you think the rice you buy in the store is what it’s like in the field?
I always heard it needs more, which is why East Asian societies -notably China - achieved big cities early on and a more collective philosophy, whereas Europe ended up having a more individualist philosophy.
wheat is overrated, I can’t even eat it with out shitting myself and eventually developing cancer. Its because my genes are too evolved to eat it or something
Try einkorn, a lot of people just have issues with the modern wheat and the historical ones are still edible.
nah I am fully diagnosed celiac - immune system attacks itself in the presence of any wheat or barley
who’s
whose
One guy can grow and harvest a wheat field large enough to feed his family, but rice requires a lot of community organization to grow.
There’s an interesting hypothesis called the Rice Hypothesis that theorizes that the different styles of farming rice vs wheat shaped our societies in ways that are still prevalent today. Farming rice led to strong collectivism in society, while farming wheat led to strong individualism in society. Perhaps this is what has led to our differences in ideologies and governing systems.
I also like the one where western people are good at stuff like telescopes and magnifying lenses because they drink wine, which is a pretty color, where as the Chinese drank clear alcohol so they didn’t get as good with glasswork
Oh interesting, I haven’t heard of that. I’ll have too look into it, thanks!
Also in regards to lenses and pretty things, because pottery and paper were already so massive industries in China, they didn’t see use for glass as much as Europe which needed it for windows and whatnot.
So then Europe had the advantage in glassworking and thus got some scientific instruments (such as beakers and lenses) first.
How much of that was of because wine, I couldn’t say. But I would like to mention that a gene for naturally being (much more) intolerant to alcohol is more common in Asia than in Europe. But how long it’s been more common is a question I couldn’t answer, as it might be more of a consequence than a cause, with how fast evolution works. (ie Europe has had strong liquor for centuries and you can see from places which only recently got liquor how much more prevalent alcoholism is — it gets filtered out pretty fast as if you’re dependant on alcohol and sauced all the time you prolly might not procreate, unless you’re not that intolerant to it and manage to function.)
All grass based crops encouraged group cooperation. Plants like potatoes remain safe in the ground until you need them. But all cereal crops require harvesting at a specific time. You can’t just harvest enough wheat as you need it. This means you inevitably have to have a stockpile of grain to get through the year. And a stockpile of already harvested and prepared grain makes you an instant target for raids by opposing groups.
Cereal crops of all forms necessitate cooperation.
I mean, everything in life requires cooperation, but that’s not the point. Rice took twice as many labor hours as wheat and required more irrigation. According to Shenshi Nongshu, “if one is short of labor, it is best to grow wheat”. Also studies have shown that in China people in historically rice farming areas behave more collectively than those in wheat regions. Not all grasses behave the same way and need the same things, especially with how much we’ve bred them to our needs.
Fascinating theory. I’ll have to go down that rabbit hole tomorrow.
Also, a very different climate and soil.
Also, a swamp.
Wheat is a more modern staple than you might imagine. Millet was more widespread than rice or wheat for much of Eurasia.
In California, native Americans made acorn porridge. They collected the acorns, shelled and roasted them, ground it into a flour, then leached it because it’s full of bitter tannins, and then they can cook the leached acorn meal into a porridge. It is crazy and multiple steps to get there. Mind blowing stuff.
When you are hungry and have had to resort to a less desirable food source, the time for research and development becomes available.
Yeah you start by trying to eat the stuff that seems like it could be food because you need food, then once you get it edible (using the basic techniques), then you can focus on trying to make it palatable.
You can’t grow rice where there isn’t a proper water supply so much so that your field is basically a swamp until it’s time to harvest. Meanwhile wheat and barley doesn’t need much water to cultivate.
I don’t think rice requires water? It just tolerates it fine, so it’s useful for pest/weed control?
It requires water but not the same stagnant levels it used to. Modern cultivation is done with a series of inter connected Levees that allow the water to flow at lower levels than it used to be grown in.
You’re thinking of something else, rice requires the land it’s planted on to be under some centimeters of water. Just look for any image of a rice field. Only when it’s ready to harvest that the field can be drier
EDIT: thanks for the replies, folks, those are some interesting rice facts!
Just because that’s what you see on photos doesn’t mean it’s the only way to grow it, it just means it’s the most efficient way. I had a quick look and found multiple sources corroborating GPs information: rice doesn’t need to be under centimeters of water, it’s only done to improve yield (by combatting weeds and pests).
There are varieties of rice that don’t require flooded fields. They’re called upland rice. They have issues with weeds and pest control that regular rice doesn’t have, but these varieties still manage to feed about a hundred million people.
Actually flooding rice drowns it.
Unfortunately the traditional system for growing rice has prevented realisation of plants’ natural potential by transplanting them too late, by spacing them too closely, and by cutting off the oxygen supply to their roots by continuous flooding of paddies. SRI changes practices that are thousands of years old to bring out rice plants’ significant possibilities for greater yield.
AFAIK rice does not require that water, it’s just that it can survive it, unlike most weeds.
The number of people who have no clue how much processing goes into making rice edible is hilarious.
Or just to grow it. Rice is stupid hard compared to wheat.
As well as regional factors. They both grow in totally different environments.
Yeah I think about this a lot. How tf did they figure out wheat on such a massive scale for bread?
- Ancient people were as intelligent as we are.
- It didn’t have to start at a massive scale, it was likely a smaller start that spread and expanded.
- Finding and making food was the thing everyone spent all their time on until the agricultural revolution, even then is was still almost everyone. It wasn’t until the industrial revolution that a majority of people weren’t focused exclusively on food production.
It might be because ancient peoples weren’t stupid, but just less knowledgeable about how things work than the average, modern adult. There were likely very curious individuals who wanted to improve something they already had or try something completely different for the sake of trying. Didn’t you ever try mixing random food ingredients as a kid to see if it tastes good?
Still do.
I see you have not met the average modern adult.
Actually, you’re right, wtf was I thinking. Bread was clearly alien tech.
Human being more gatherer than hunter and wheat the evolved form of an evolved form from early human domestication, helps?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einkorn
Edit: damn, the description in the article basically answers the whole topic here.
It’s learned over time. I expect what we learned from easier-to-process roots was applied to grains.
I often wondered this about potatoes. Wild potatoes are extremely poisonous, so who went, the last time we ate one of those we all got sick and a few people died.
Let’s cultivate them. I’m sure in just a few thousand years we can turn it into something useful. Of course until then it’s kind of just wasted effort but our children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children’s children will thank us.
Boiling them in a clay pot, one of the only materials available to them, renders them edible and famously almost nutritionally complete. They are incredibly easy to grow and grow almost anywhere. They were immediately available. “What happens if we boil it” is the basis for quite a lot of staple foods and would have been a human go-to.
Eating one probably felt so damn good when people had a non-existent understanding of nutrition.
Eating potatoes still feels great
Peru, that’s who. I’m pretty sure that’s where all edible potatoes come from.
My thoughts but with chicken “ah yes these poisonous birds that make you shit yourself to death, i shall bring them home”
Wait till you learn why chicken was domesticated and spread around the world. Believe it or not, but it’s not for food.
Chaffing it, and then grinding it and adding water aren’t exactly rocket science. Also you didn’t have any smartphones to keep you from being bored.
Sir and/or Madam,
Have you heard the good word about maize (corn)? 🌽
Devil crop.
I live amongst yankees now. I’d even take some huitlacoche.
I’ve been wanting to try that for years
It’s an acquired taste. Definitely tastes better than it looks.
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WHAT UP MOTHER SHUCKERS
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It’s pretty simple, really. Rice doesn’t grow everywhere.
Can confirm. I’m currently at Tim Horton’s and there’s no rice growing.
But there is bread available, isn’t there? I rest my case.
Is the Tragically Hip song Wheat Kings playing though?
The ignorance around rice is what gets me on this one. It’s almost troll level.
