- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
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People who actually have to work and get the bread of the day are not spending money on that. IMHO. Sorry if I sound rude but honestly unless you want to experiment with something that hardly will have any real impact in real life you are just wasting money.
To use these kind of devices you need at least two people using it.
Anyway I guess people spend their money on whatever they want.
Weird, I work and get bread and I’ve got one, and my family members all have one. And most forms of communication need at least two people last I checked.
Is it our primary form of communication? No. But if cell towers go down we’re all within range of sending a text. If I lived in a city I’d definitely have one. It’s a stupid cheap insurance policy. But by all means, depend fully on your cell provider for communication.
Here’s something fun for you: Look up Kessler syndrome. If we were to lose control of our satellite networks for 24 hours, there’s a 30% chance it causes a chain reaction to where we lose the ability to even launch satellites without first cleaning up all the space debris. That time window shrinks with each new launch.
mgtowlemmy
Yes, listen to this guy - this is totally useless and you should only use
ciaapproved communicationsYou don’t sound rude, you just sound too defeated to be able to think
They do have a point sadly. I absolutely cant convince any of my friends to get the fuck off of fb messenger and x and Instagram, even though its SO EASY to do so and find better alternatives. They sure as shit would never ever buy something like this.
I do kind of want one. But in my smaller city there’s no way id find another person with one.
There are already users of these though? Meshtastic has plenty of nodes in the US afaik and is perfectly useable. It uses long range radios for communication so you only need a few people in a state to do it for it to work.
TIL: Incels have their own Lemmy instance. Good for you!
I have no clue what you believe this event is actually about and why people go there.
Meshtatic radios are very cheap, about $20. It’s one of their main drivers of their popularity.
To use these kind of devices you need at least two people using it.
🤣🤣🤣 A communications device that requires a receiver and a sender??? Oh, how useless!
There’s over 300 meshtastic radios in my area.
My point is, you need two devices and ALSO the knowledge to set up these devices, it was implicit in the comment, some “normal” people even need support to setup WhatsApp do you really think they will use that kind of stuff? $20 is not a lot of money but there are people who can’t afford it anyway. Unless you live in an overpopulated area it will be pretty hard to find someone else using that kind of device, it’s just another hobby like VHF/UHF and CB.
Meshtastic it’s just coping it don’t have a real application and supposing someone make a business and start deploying the system for money the kind of people who are into it will say “greedy fuckers”
$20 is not a lot of money but there are people who can’t afford it anyway
Then they can’t afford a phone or monthly service plan or really any communication devices at all.
Unless you live in an overpopulated area it will be pretty hard to find someone else using that kind of device
Literally designed for rural areas with poor cell service.
it don’t have a real application
Wait the real application that I use to communicate with and manage my node doesn’t exist?
supposing someone make a business and start deploying the system for money
Yeah except this tech is already used with all kinds of smart and IoT devices.
Got a link? Also, do we need to dial in to a specific frequency?
The internet will get back up if it goes down. It is very decentralized. Sea cables and DNS is where most of the centralization occurs, and DNS going down is not at all the end of the internet. How man sea cables have to be broken at once for the internet to break, I’m not entirely sure.
Meshtastic is a cool thing and it is very useful, internet up or down.
There are normally only a few points at which traffic enters the country. Shutting them down will effectively cut you from most of the Internet, and the rest that remains will be fully in the jurisdiction that oppresses you.
That won’t help for situations where a government shuts down access to the internet.
Friend: do not underestimate how much greed the cel companies are capable of. Many have been working on their own satellite setups in preparation and blasting it in everyone’s face lately.
If they shut the Internet and there is a decent meshtastic network they will jam that as well.
This is a non answer. yes, hypothetically they can, but the whole point of finding alternative channels is to make it difficult for them to do so, to the point that they might not even try.
That pessimism of “they can jam it anyways” is like saying do not wear a helmet while riding a bike, if you are meant to die that day, you will die regardless of head protection.
Plus, it will take resources for them to jam things, and the more resources they need to do that shit the faster it will deplete them and the less they can do, it is so obvious I do not know how to write it without sounding demeaning.
Maybe so, but incompetence is persistent within fascist organizations, and it adds an extra problem for them to deal with, which has value for that fact alone.
It adds a lot of extra risk since each node is a constant radio beacon that is easily trackable.
Compared with handheld radio that broadcast and disappear.
How resistant would this be to jamming? Iran managed to black out Starlink.
And how trackable is it? Not sure how many people would be prepared to run one of these boxes if the Revolutionary Guard are going to come knocking.
It’s pretty easy to jam as it’s just radio waves. Increase the noise on the channel and the chirps of your msg don’t get heard. That said there are some options to vary the channel as a group, and jamming a broad and robust mesh completely vs an area of nodes is a bit harder.
Trackable as in traceable? You mean finding your node location? By default not overly difficult but again, can be set up to make it hard to find you.
Wouldn’t it be pretty easy to track down the source since its just radio?
Yes, which is why I said it wouldn’t be overly difficult, especially with access to military equipment. TDOA could fairly easily pinpoint a signal location. Meshtastic is generally chatty but you can do stuff like reduce transmissions, and limit the amount of hops your msgs can make etc. or even if you knew who you were sending to, make it directional so it’s harder to hear you. That said with the right tech, actively looking for nodes and listening to a chatty mesh radio it wouldn’t be hard.
Riots fix that, not meshtastic
Riots are better coordinated when people can communicate wirelessly
A government can shut down a riot of 10,000
It struggles with 10 1,000 person riots.
No doubt, but meshtastic really is a temporary solution, but a very good solution since it’s only necessary for a temporary amount of time. I’m just saying there aren’t really many cases outside of a catastrophic mass human extinction event that would disable the internet infrastructure beyond maybe a few years if that. Won’t be a library of alexandria moment from a connectivity side, but which servers are still up is the real question
I think at that point it’s more of a revolution than a riot, but I agree
I didn’t know riots and protests 50+ years ago depended on the internet. Crazy.
You missed the word “better”.
I never said meshtastic is a hard requirement.
they depended on communication
I just saw a node pop up from my local disaster relief network. I’m not sure if it’s legit…
The meshtastic website has a getting started guide that assumes you already have equipment first…which is odd. Is there a reason to go with Bluetooth only? Does it make more sense to get a Bluetooth and WiFi device?
Bluetooth first generally because you use a companion app on your phone to interface with the device and the BLE chip (nrf25840) sips power compared to the esp based wifi chips, that you will likely be supplying with a battery of some sort.
What time zone?
Their website is .nl, so it may or may not be Netherlands time, which would be 6PM UTC, I think.
I’m really hoping this takes off.
Same, decentralized mesh networks would be the equivalent of a “federated internet”. No one person owning the infrastructure.
If this were to become mainstream the mesh would become the “Internet”, with enough nodes, pcs and servers.
And in the meantime where one mesh does not “connect” to another, traffic could be routed through the “old internet” by one or more exit nodes connected to the “old internet”.
Isn’t meshtastic exceptionally low bandwidth?
I believe you are correct.
I was imagining “into the future” though, where everyone has a device that meshes with like devices, creating a internet of connect devices to transport data over large distances. All decentralized, if one node goes down traffic routes a different way in the mesh.
Think Cellphone Towers for examples, but the idea is everyone would have their own device at home (or on them) that instead creates the mesh and simultaneously access the mesh.
I should download classic wow servers game and addons for long term storage in case of WW3 🤔 and wikipedia too
wow before wiki… priorities.
Culture is important ! Science too I guess hut we have libraries
This tech would be great if we had high power nodes all across the globe. But we do not. Maybe a cool idea could be encrypted data over FM radio. The radio stations already exist and are a dying business. Nonprofits could buy up radio stations and rebroadcast data broadly and only those with the encryption keys could decrypt. Cut the ISP out entirely. Like the difference between a local call and a long distance call.
Meshtastic communication would prioritize local hops where they are available and then where there are spans of area without nodes, they could hop across radio broadcasts.
Primary issue would be speed. Next to no bandwidth on a signal like that. Kbps not Mbps. Perhaps an incentive for much better compression as well.
Packet over radio does exist, and it’s sloooooooooooooow and there’s tons of loss. Imagine the first modems over phone lines, then slow it down more.
Legally, in the US, it can’t be encrypted, either. A single geostationary satellite would be faster, especially if latency wasn’t an issue.
For anyone reading this currently, it appears that regulation bans any form of encryption over HAM radio broadcasts. So I guess that’s one reason this won’t work.
It’s also slow AF. It’s potentially faster to have someone read you text than get it by packet over radio.
How would they find out ?
A high powered antenna that transmits a lot of “static” would be a dead giveaway.
It’s not really static. It’s digital, the transmission scheme has structure. It’s only the transmitted data that is encrypted, but you’d have to first unpack the transmission to get to the data.
True, you could send encrypted data via morse code. Nothing but a pure tone.
I understand. I was replying to how gov agencies would find out. Any digital transmission is basically “static” to an analog receiver.
Regulations can be changed?
I don’t think you’re going to be downloading a linux distro over this system. It’s probably just going to be text and the most basic data,
That’s what the internet was, at first
Yep, but what we had access to was far, far different than what we see today. I wouldn’t have a problem with basic features like FTP, telnet, newsgroups or whatever, but the content will be limited. Gonna be back to dialup speeds.
That’s what the last bit of my comment was about. Compression would need significant improvement before it were usable for most things people use the internet for.
I’m not sure compression would solve the issue I mentioned - this would be probably more akin to using Napster to DL a song in 2001 via dialup, or trying to get an image off a newsgroup at best. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be useful, just very limited. Like I said, you’re not getting a full distro this way.
Sounds like a better idea to implement as a reticulum medium.
So much of our infrastructure uses the internet now that if it goes down I wouldn’t be shocked if electric grids, healthcare, shopping, public transport, etc also shit the bed.
I can only speak for the US, but our electric grids and production are supposed to be air gapped for critical infrastructure. Healthcare? I doubt it based on the continuous leaks there - and medical supply chains are tightly integrated with internet/cloud… Shopping still has a fairly sizeable local accessibility for staple items, certainly food distro where the internet wouldn’t matter for at least a short while, but it’s also tightly integrated for Supply Chain Management, much like Health care - so there could be a run on it.
I’m not sure on public transport, but most are goverment led, so probably air gapped.
There’s also a shitton of dark fiber laying about. Internet infrastructure COULD be brought back up depending on the damage that triggered outages in the first place.
Literally all the ordering for stores uses the internet now; we’d be absolutely fucked for a good while if the internet actually went down in the USA.
I can only speak for the US, but our electric grids and production are supposed to be air gapped for critical infrastructure.
Do oil pipelines count? 'Cos Colonial got hacked and everybody thought they were airgapped.
I think some water facility was too but no serious values were changed - 'cos and admin preferred to sit comfy at home.I’m not exactly standing behind it - just saying what I’ve read. I’m confident nuclear plants are after 9/11. Anything else is probably hit or miss, including petro/gas pipelines, coal, and generating plants specifically. Plus if a bad actor (likely state sanctioned) decides to, they can get through air gaps with spies/traitors/unwitting idiots with a simple USB drive. After air gapped uranium processing centrifuges were wrecked with an errant USB drive, I would expect all systems to disable or remove USB drive connectivity, but I’m sure that’s inconsistent… at best.
After air gapped uranium processing centrifuges were wrecked with an errant USB drive,
I’d forgotten about stuxnet, quite the (technical) feat.
I wonder if that fancy bed company that saw it’s beds freeze 'cos no AWS ever sold to hospitals…
Add some batteries to the meshtatic nodes. and even if all electricity and networks go down, you and your friends can still organize and plan.
Internet outages happen all the time. Most of these networks can run independent for a time. And are designed to be so. Only smaller networks have issues because they are not designed as such. But things like toast make a small store feasible to run. If electricity goes out then it has bigger issues, but I’ve seen stores go to hand swipe cards before to keep from closing.
I’ve not been recycling my tin cans and I have a whole shitload of string. Happy to share.
I’ll take 3 bags full. One for the master (coordinator) and one for the slave (endpoints), and one for the little girl who lives down the lane (Fitgirl Repacks)
My remembering of that line is “and one for the dame”, and I grew up in the deep south…strange
I ad-libbed to make my horrible analogy work. I am beyond regret
Nah. It was good.
😭
How close do you need to be to another node to get it to work?
Is there a map that shows where are using them? It looks like a fun idea, but I don’t want to get something and no one is using it in my region. (Outback Australia)
Yup, same thoughts here (Norway). I doubt anyone near me uses it.
You’d be surprised.
In NSW Australia there are hardly any two near each other. What is the point of all these people even buying one if you don’t team up with at least one neighbour?
Be the change 😎
It is delusional to think the chances are good of a neighbor just looking up the map and joining in. Geeks need to talk to people in real life, especially in their neighborhood. Team up with at least one other person. Use word of mouth. That is effective change.
Unfortunately I live in a remote area with non-tech people who are not conservative enough to be preppers. I will still run it past them though.
I’d talk to you if you were on the map 👍
A grumpy curmudgeon like me? You must be crazy!
Groucho Marx - “I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member”
If you can get one up high, they can reach hundreds of kilometers.
They’re all over the West Coast of the US because of all the hills, and there are generally decent nets in cities with high rises.
Set up your own emergency grid. I’ve got a couple solar powered nodes around so I can contact my wife even from the villages that aren’t in mobile coverage.
There are some, there are probably more than are in the picture, map access is opt-in
Being shown in maps like this is opt-in, so there’s an unknown amount of users which are not displayed.
I’m 100% OK with it being opt-in. If there is at least 1 in my state, I’ll bite.
Welp, I guess I’m biting…
Welp, I guess I’m biting…
On the up side, you can get a Heltec V3 for ~$20
On the down side, since everything is super low power, you absolutley need line of site to get our of your neighborhood
One in your state? Wouldn’t you need one in your line of sight?
If everyone opens the map, sees the blank space, then walks away, no one will start.
I’ll be willing to start, and hopefully others will join.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
Answer: Build another Internet
