I think this ‘attack them for being dumb’ angle is wrong and damaging.
Is your ego being salved by metaphorically spitting on someone and telling them that you were smarter than them and they should have listened to you sooner? Is that more important than having allies to defeat Fascism?
Every time I see someone on the right who speaks up about changing their views, they’re buried under down votes and toxic comments.
Nobody benefits from us allowing these toxic people to alienate people who are coming over to our side.
Yes, you were right first, congrats we’ll give you a big gold star right after the trials. Until then, stop shooting allies because you want to feel superior.
In a position commanding a wide public audience, Jonathan Rauch has spent years speaking against us and mocking us. Today, he’s had an epiphany and figured out he’s been well-paid to be wrong. That’s cool. “Welcome to the fight. This time I know our side will win,” and all that.
I’m not going to waste any effort kicking him today, but I’m also not shocked, not scolding anyone who doesn’t welcome Jonathan Rauch with a bouquet of flowers and wet kisses. Anyway, in five days or five minutes he’ll decide we’re wrong again. Shrug.
Yeah, you’re right there will be a lot of fair weather supporters who are only switching sides because the wind blew our way. Nor do I think we should coddle these people.
My point is that: if you don’t have something constructive to say then at least be silent. There is ZERO advantage (outside of soothing their ego) for a person who supports this cause to actively attack people who are coming around to see how bad this situation has become.
The net result of this kind of tactic is to create division among allies. This kind of behavior isn’t something that benefits us and should be actively discouraged.
I’m not saying ‘be nice or they’ll go back to fascism’ as you can already see the troll comments (reading from that exact same encyclopedia of toxic rhetoric). I’m saying that this kind of behavior cuts off these new anti-fascists from being able to support the movement, dividing the enemies of fascism.
As I said, go try to engage some of these people in conversation to change their mind. Very often you’ll find they have zero interest in having a good-faith discussion, and will constantly be deploying all manner of fallacy as a smoke screen. These people are not allies, they are agitators and, even if they are real American Human People then they are ideologically aligned with the agitators.
Ha — how did you get to know my family so well?
I’m not interested in conversation with people who aren’t interested in conversation, so I no longer engage — unless they say something stupid or fascist in my presence.
Ha — how did you get to know my family so well? I’m not interested in conversation with people who aren’t interested in conversation, so I no longer engage — unless they say something stupid or fascist in my presence.
I live in a rural area of a red state so I have to deal with MAGA people, family and clients, constantly.
I think it’s telling that you’re getting down votes without response. Your question is simple: What do we have to gain by turning away potential allies other than massaging our egos?
What do, whoever is operating these toxic accounts, have to gain by turning away our potential allies?
To me, the people who are willing to alienate allies are in the same group as the ones pushing fear, uncertainty, doubt and division while encouraging violence.
I can’t know who they are or why they are saying what they are saying but the effect of their message creates a beneficial outcome for our opposition.
Pick a random one of these posters to engage in a conversation to change their mind and you will often find the same toxic behaviors, bad faith arguments, red herrings, strawman arguments. It’s like they’re all reading from the same encyclopedia of bad faith rhetoric.
The people with opinions over a fucking JOURNALIST not seeing fascism while it’s arresting his peers are doing the same thing as a fucking fascist!?
Holy hyperbole!
What the fuck is wrong with you?! “We want allies on our side… oh not YOU. YOU’RE JUST AS BAD AS THE FASCISTS! You must be a PLANT!”
Go fuck yourself you clear fucking hypocrite.
Oh and if that turns you into a fascist because i was mean to you then you already were one. Now fuck off.
Edit: when you fuck up people will be pissed off at you. Grow the fuck up if you can’t handle that. The answer is not to turn into a fucking fascist it’s to fucking apologize for being wrong.
Exhibit A
Pick a random one of these posters to engage in a conversation to change their mind and you will often find the same toxic behaviors, bad faith arguments, red herrings, strawman arguments. It’s like they’re all reading from the same encyclopedia of bad faith rhetoric.
I don’t need my ego salved and yes, i handle being called all sorts of names as a slight public figure and i don’t have a job important at all compared to a journalist. Knock this shit off. The fully grown professional man doesn’t need his ass patted because he might turn to fascism if not.
I think this ‘attack them for being dumb’ angle is wrong and damaging.
Is your ego being salved by metaphorically spitting on someone and telling them that you were smarter than them and they should have listened to you sooner? Is that more important than having allies to defeat Fascism?
Every time I see someone on the right who speaks up about changing their views, they’re buried under down votes and toxic comments.
Nobody benefits from us allowing these toxic people to alienate people who are coming over to our side.
Yes, you were right first, congrats we’ll give you a big gold star right after the trials. Until then, stop shooting allies because you want to feel superior.
In a position commanding a wide public audience, Jonathan Rauch has spent years speaking against us and mocking us. Today, he’s had an epiphany and figured out he’s been well-paid to be wrong. That’s cool. “Welcome to the fight. This time I know our side will win,” and all that.
I’m not going to waste any effort kicking him today, but I’m also not shocked, not scolding anyone who doesn’t welcome Jonathan Rauch with a bouquet of flowers and wet kisses. Anyway, in five days or five minutes he’ll decide we’re wrong again. Shrug.
Yeah, you’re right there will be a lot of fair weather supporters who are only switching sides because the wind blew our way. Nor do I think we should coddle these people.
My point is that: if you don’t have something constructive to say then at least be silent. There is ZERO advantage (outside of soothing their ego) for a person who supports this cause to actively attack people who are coming around to see how bad this situation has become.
The net result of this kind of tactic is to create division among allies. This kind of behavior isn’t something that benefits us and should be actively discouraged.
I’m not saying ‘be nice or they’ll go back to fascism’ as you can already see the troll comments (reading from that exact same encyclopedia of toxic rhetoric). I’m saying that this kind of behavior cuts off these new anti-fascists from being able to support the movement, dividing the enemies of fascism.
As I said, go try to engage some of these people in conversation to change their mind. Very often you’ll find they have zero interest in having a good-faith discussion, and will constantly be deploying all manner of fallacy as a smoke screen. These people are not allies, they are agitators and, even if they are real American Human People then they are ideologically aligned with the agitators.
Ha — how did you get to know my family so well? I’m not interested in conversation with people who aren’t interested in conversation, so I no longer engage — unless they say something stupid or fascist in my presence.
I live in a rural area of a red state so I have to deal with MAGA people, family and clients, constantly.
I think it’s telling that you’re getting down votes without response. Your question is simple: What do we have to gain by turning away potential allies other than massaging our egos?
It’s a good question.
What do, whoever is operating these toxic accounts, have to gain by turning away our potential allies?
To me, the people who are willing to alienate allies are in the same group as the ones pushing fear, uncertainty, doubt and division while encouraging violence.
I can’t know who they are or why they are saying what they are saying but the effect of their message creates a beneficial outcome for our opposition.
Pick a random one of these posters to engage in a conversation to change their mind and you will often find the same toxic behaviors, bad faith arguments, red herrings, strawman arguments. It’s like they’re all reading from the same encyclopedia of bad faith rhetoric.
Removed by mod
Exhibit A
I don’t need my ego salved and yes, i handle being called all sorts of names as a slight public figure and i don’t have a job important at all compared to a journalist. Knock this shit off. The fully grown professional man doesn’t need his ass patted because he might turn to fascism if not.