Privacy for me has been incredibly rewarding, but when talking to people who haven’t been introduced to privacy, there are occasionally some moments that make it exhausting. One conversation in particular is one that I’ve had to go through dozens of times, and it always goes along these lines:
- Alice: Why is your phone in airplane mode? / What’s your phone number?
- Bob: I don’t have a carrier.
- Alice: But you have a phone.
- Bob: Yes.
- Alice: How do you not have a carrier?
- Bob: Phones can come without a carrier.
- Alice: What do you use it for?
- Bob: Everything you use yours for.
- Alice: How do you talk to people?
- Bob: Messaging apps over Wi-Fi.
- Alice: What if you don’t have Wi-Fi?
- Bob: Public Wi-Fi is everywhere. If I don’t have Wi-Fi, I likely don’t need to get in touch.
- Alice: What about emergencies?
- Bob: I can still contact emergency services.
Each time it happens, it has a unique flavor. One person accused me of lying and then fraud. I know people are just curious and don’t mean to be rude, but it makes me die a little inside every time someone asks. I’ve begun trying to sidestep the conversation entirely:
- Alice: Why is your phone in airplane mode?
- Bob: To save battery.
or:
- Alice: What’s your phone number?
- Bob: You can contact me with an app called Signal.
People seem to think that a phone automatically comes with a carrier and that it’ll stop working if you don’t have one. In reality, I’m saving hundreds of dollars per year while avoiding spam, fraud, breaches, surveillance, and being chronically online. People have a hard time coping with those who do things a little differently.
Wait, you need a phone # for signal…i thought.
Also, this method only works for people in massive cities (1mil+). Less than that good luck getting wifi. That is too much of a massive convenience for little gain, if they want to find you, they will. They’ll just tap into your family or your neighbors phone.
Say you get lost or run out of gas. Gonna a call 911 every time that happens? What if youre on the way to a friend’s house and they call and tell you they have to cancel or they need you to pick up something for them?
Yes, I lived before cell phones were a thing. But I cant imagine many people would put up with you. At least get a damn Jitterbug!
Wait, you need a phone # for signal…i thought.
You do. You can sign up with a VoIP number or a burner phone.
Also, this method only works for people in massive cities (1mil+). Less than that good luck getting wifi.
I don’t need to stay constantly connected. Even when Wi-Fi is available, I rarely have the need to use it.
That is too much of a massive convenience for little gain, if they want to find you, they will.
People have different threat models, so it’s not for everyone, but it’s certainly worth it for me.
They’ll just tap into your family or your neighbors phone.
And find what? Encrypted Signal messages?
Say you get lost or run out of gas.
GPS works without cellular, and I cycle instead of driving.
Gonna a call 911 every time that happens?
I can borrow someone else’s phone or keep an emergency phone switched off until it’s needed.
What if youre on the way to a friend’s house and they call and tell you they have to cancel or they need you to pick up something for them?
Stuff happens. If I really need to stay connected, I can use an external hotspot.
Yes, I lived before cell phones were a thing. But I cant imagine many people would put up with you.
If it’s that big of a deal that someone won’t associate with me, that is entirely their problem. It’s rarely ever an inconvenience for them.
So everyone you interact with uses signal, and no other Google apps, they all have rooted phones and no smart tvs etc? You avoid all traffic cameras and ring doorbells/other people’s phone cameras/microphones?
I find this hard to believe, or you are a real life 007!
Also im not being an ass if it sounded like it, im genuinely intrigued by this. I would be a hermit if I lived like that.
So everyone you interact with uses signal, and no other Google apps, they all have rooted phones and no smart tvs etc? You avoid all traffic cameras and ring doorbells/other people’s phone cameras/microphones?
Privacy is not about absolutism. You do what you can within your threat model to stay protected.
Sure I get that. But youre going to a lot of trouble to not actually be very secure in the grand scheme. At most, you are making the advertisers .0000001 cent less per year vs if you used big tech junk. Unless youre convincing 10,000 others to step back into 1991, its not making a difference. (Im all for that if you have the time machine btw!)
Hey man if you got time and energy for it, keep on it! I truly like interacting with such different people on here, its awesome.
At most, you are making the advertisers .0000001 cent less per year vs if you used big tech junk. Unless youre convincing 10,000 others to step back into 1991, its not making a difference.
It actually makes a much bigger difference than you think. I remember a site that showed how much advertisers made off of you while you’ve been viewing, but I can’t seem to find it. They make dollars off of you every second. Ad blocking alone has made so much of a difference that YouTube has tried intentionally slowing down their service to ad block users as a way to discourage it. I have no better way to show you how big of an impact it actually makes. Even in your own life, using a password manager can save yourself from getting hacked. This thread isn’t really for fighting about why privacy is important, but there’s plenty of other sources talking about it.
I can see that i guess. I wont use the internet without ad blockers.
Good guides, ive read a few of those. The journey is slow! But I figure as long as I have a Samsung android phone, im screwed privacy wise even if all my pcs run linux. So its either live with a neutered linux phone or this. Maybe the lightphone would work but it would have to actually work with all the banking, airplane, and hotel apps that are all proprietary and usually require Google play store. They got us pinned down man. Unless you live in a cave and never venture out.
So its either live with a neutered linux phone or this. Maybe the lightphone would work but it would have to actually work with all the banking, airplane, and hotel apps that are all proprietary and usually require Google play store.
GrapheneOS is a hardened version of Android that removes the privacy invasive elements. You can still optionally install Google Play Services if you need to install apps from there, but it runs in a sandboxed environment so it doesn’t have the same invasive permissions.
I think you’re a bit too stuck in the “immediate access to everyone” way of things
if I get lost, having cell service won’t help me, because I have GPS on my phone that can show me where to go. and if I’m lost in the backcountry… I already don’t have cell service lol
if my car breaks down, I’ll wait until somebody comes along and ask for help
if I’m on my way somewhere and somebody wants me to cancel, then I’ll get the message when I stop for a coffee or I’ll show up and then go home. if they want me to pick something up last minute… it doesn’t get picked up on my way over. not a big deal.
I have cell service. have for years. but the more time goes on, the less I find it necessary. and the more anecdotal evidence I have to support that.
important note: I do not have children or family members in vulnerable condition
I dont care about that so much, but I dont live in a place where wifi is everywhere (and at a lot of places you have to pay to use it or buy something)
I just feel like people who live this way must lead a more solitary life. Which is fine. But it doesnt work for me. Those who travel and /or travel for work couldn’t do that without the current tech, its just whats expected unfortunately.
Also, you’ve never driven anywhere remote if you think your car breaks down and people will come help. Ever been in the eastern part of Montana? Didn’t think so. Youll be waiting for 5 hours before you see a car, if you dont get hauled into a meth lab by thay time.
so I get a temporary phone if I’m expected to be in a higher risk environment… not really a big deal
I’m not frequently in that situation, so that is an exceptional circumstance. if I break down on the way to Algonquin Park or on the north end, there’s enough traffic that I won’t die from it.
A life where I have to consider buying burner phones when im going to travel definitely doesnt fit my lifestyle, and im on lemmy! You are one in a trillion human.
I’m really not.
Weird take, I have two phones and only one has service. The iPhone. My Android phone is older, and it works just fine over WiFi. I’ve disabled cellular in settings. So it’s now functionally a tablet. And before you ask if I have the phone app on my dock, I don’t have a dock. It’s actually being used as an Animal Crossing cosplay prop. It has a NookPhone case, and while it does have a different wallpaper, the apps have Animal Crossing themed icons. So NookMusic is Apple Music, Messaging is Telegram, Passport is my Animal Crossing item/collectible tracking app (which also has links to my island/character), stuff like that. But I mean, you can swipe up and get the app drawer, and see all the apps installed. It even uses the iPhone gesture controls (Samsung offers this natively in the settings), because the NookPhone doesn’t have the Back/Home/Task buttons.
When it’s on, if it can’t find my home WiFi, it hops on my iPhone’s hotspot feature. It has signal most places. (And while it doesn’t have Signal installed, AFAIK, my iPhone does.)
Do you use your phone for navigation when driving? Any good app recommendations for navigating without cellular data?
Last time I checked, you can use GPS without carrier. GPS, and GNSS in general, is separate set of satellites. With cellular It’s just more precise since initial triangulation facilitated by cell towers. I recently was mid 5 hours flight and was able to see my location in google maps despite being in flight mode
*Cycling, but yes. I use CoMaps.
Ultimate Lemming:
- Cycles only, detects cars
- Uses CoMaps
- Uses Archlinux?
Im just jokin with ya 😉
Uses Archlinux?
secureblue :)
2 and 3 check out with me, but 1st point is public transport only. Preferably trains + trams.
Although buses have the advantage that I can sit in the front where I can see the road, and they also tend to be less illuminated so I can see outside at night.
I wish there were dark carriages. Coach buses will have a few blue LEDs near the floor, but a train has to come with full sun worth of light.My city has no public transport and if you tried to bike from one end to the other youd be killed crossing a 6 lane interstate lol. Not to mention it would take you 10 hours.
Which sucks but I would never use public transport even if we had it. But it does suck for those who cant afford cars.
but I would never use public transport even if we had it.
Why is that?
Its not for me, and im in a place out of town. Public transport wouldnt work here.
Public transport pretty much always works everywhere that isn’t a country town with like 5 people living there, and at that point you could just walk or ride around.
If there is low demand you can start with a small community bus, then increase the amount of buses and lines. Increase the size of the bus. Then maybe build a tram line etc…
I’m not saying your govenment will do this but it is almost always possible and faster, safer and more comfortable. Unless you really enjoy driving or prefer the privacy that it offers (debatable but still somewhat valid) in which case public transport and other viable alternatives to driving is still the only real way to reduce traffic for drivers.
Hopefully they can be overhauling UI to be much better. Would be cool if they made calls to wider community for UI people to come in to help out
I can second CoMaps. Works great when I’m somewhere and don’t have a local SIM.
Organic maps found on F Droid, download the state or area you want so is available offline. Won’t do traffic obviously, but gets you a to be.
I think CoMaps is the better choice.
CoMaps was founded in 2025 by former Organic Maps contributors. The Organic Maps codebase was forked due to concerns about the project’s governance, transparency, and the potential for shareholder profit at the expense of the community. The CoMaps project was created, focusing on privacy, performance and community.
Oh dang! I didn’t realize! Thanks for bringing that up good sir.
Herewego works offline.
Yeah I dont get the comaps hype. It sucks anywhere that’s not a megalopolis. Here wego is far far better (for me).
People seem to think that a phone automatically comes with a carrier and that it’ll stop working if you don’t have one.
Not all phones have a carrier, but 99% of them need one if you want to make normal phone calls.
I’ve never had someone ask me for my phone number. They usually ask me to text them, at which point they have my (throw away) number.
Everyone is totally unaware when I’m de-carriered.
I would not be comfortable not having mobile signal. Public WiFi is not going to cut it. Even a 0.00001% chance that I’d miss an important call from my partner is no bueno for me.
You can still purchase an external cellular hotspot, which will be more private than a phone carrier.
Would using an old phone as an external cellular hotspot be almost just as private as using an application specific device?
I just looked at the video and wondered that since there kinda expensive (also I wouldn’t be able to use the calyx hotspots since I don’t live in the US)
There’s a bigger security risk because of a larger attack surface, and naturally phones can collect a lot more data than hotspots, but it depends on your threat model.
I guess it could be a decent consideration if I can find a way to anonymously get a sim, not really much point otherwise.
Woo hoo! Something new to be paranoid about!
I could probably have my phone on airplane mode all the time and no one would notice, I never pick up anyones calls to begin with.
Even a 0.00001% chance that I’d miss an important call from my partner is no bueno for me.
Yikes. I can’t imagine having this level of anxiety about being out of contact.
I wouldn’t say it’s an anxiety, I’d say it’s a cost-benefit analysis I’ve done and decided that having cell service to catch a potential emergency call is more important to me than that one extra level of privacy like OP. Hell, I don’t want to miss a call even if it isn’t an emergency. I love my partner and want to talk to them any chance I can get; if they’re calling I want to answer.
I’m happy for you.
I think you dramatically overestimate both the cost of missing a call, and the benefit of not missing a call.
That said, it sure is convenient.
I think you drastically underestimate how much I love my partner.
No doubt.
I’m sure you’ve got multiple backup carriers and a satellite phone with you at all times to ensure that 99.99999 uptime, which translates to about 4 seconds of downtime a year.
But surely you weren’t exaggerating that part too.
Of course the %age I used was an exaggeration. Sorry, was this conversation being driven by the assumption that it wasn’t? I exaggerated to make my point.
And yet you decided to continue this thread by saying that you weren’t exaggerating.
I think you dramatically don’t understand how different other people are compared to you. Either that, or you lack empathy. I can’t think of any other reasons why you would distrust and dismiss their reasoning.
Hot takes here chunkystyles.
You really got me thinking about how some people just love each other so much that they would move mountains to make sure they don’t miss a single text message, and that’s completely normal, and not at all anxious behavior.
That missed text message or call could be the one where they call for help and you don’t get it and oh god what if I could have helped and oh god what if I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye?
Sure hope this person never drives or rides a bike anywhere. Probably fine if they do text and drive though. Because of the love.
You’re just driving my point home.
There’s really no reason for you to act like this. This kind of snark doesn’t endear you to anyone and it doesn’t help good faith conversion.
You’re just driving my point home.
Oh no.
there’s no reason for you to act like this.
Act like what?
Offering opinions in a public forum in support of the OP? Contradicting somebody making a silly claim that they can’t bear to be apart from their partner for 4 seconds a year?
Defensive when somebody tells me that I lack empathy?
Your pain is so very relatable, pal 😢
I’ve only met a handful of people that don’t question it and just accept my personal choices. One person even tried stepping in when someone asked for my email to tell them I didn’t have one. I do have email, but the gesture was still nice. Those are the ones worth keeping around.
My struggle is to not get bitter/angry at these situations. I have to keep reminding myself that there are about a billion other ways in which I am ignorant of things that are equally important. And that just a few years ago, I too, was completely on the big tech bandwagon (but only reluctantly so).
My struggle is to not get bitter/angry at these situations.
That’s why I’m complaining online instead! /s
The best thing you can do is just prepare yourself for situations you might end up in, and practice your responses. When someone asked why I don’t have a carrier, I instinctively said “Privacy reasons” and then immediately realized what was about to come. It takes practice, even if you mess up a couple times.
Agreed!
I thought you had to have a phone number to use Signal.
Could have a voip phone number
I don’t know how to get one and shouldn’t have to, just to use an app like Signal. Why isn’t there one we can use without having to give them a phone #?
Just use matrix or xmpp. Signal is centralized. If they stop offering the service it’s gone forever.
There’s always a compromise between security and accessibility. Signal is nice in that it’s pretty secure while also being acceptable. More secure options aren’t very accessible to the average person.
Signal does not care about anyone who does not use android or ios and offers no official way to create an account without them. I wouldn’t call that accessible.
“Universally accessible” is not a synonym for “accessible.”
That seems like a better idea, but it 's the same old problem where you’d have to get the people you want to communicate with to switch from Signal to that.
SimpleX uses the Signal engine but requires no phone number. Also can awt up your own server (unlike Signal).
A search for that term brings up about 10 different things from crypto to herpes, nothing about a messaging app
Search for it in the Google play store.
Thanks! They also have a desktop and a terminal version, nice.
Last I checked (over a year ago) desktop was not great. IIRC there was no scroll bar.
Also getting noobs to join is tricky. You cannot use your native camera app to accept an invite (has to be via the SimpleX app) and it screws up invites via Facebook messenger (gets confused by the tracking suffix Facebook appends).
No. Not any more.
Edit: Sorry apparently you still need a number for the registration.
My GrapheneOS phone is in airplane mode with cellular disabled and WiFi on.
Airalo also exists if your phone supports eSIM.
Just keep in mind that the purpose of Airplane Mode is to prevent transmission. Your phone might still be receiving signals like GPS and WiFi SSIDs, which it can record to be transmitted later.
If you really don’t want to be tracked, leave it home.
At least by turning on airplane mode they cannot track your location.
Or own your device with a custom rom.
So… I’m kind of in the same situation but mine is actually by mistake. Namely my SIM somehow (OK maybe I tinkered with eSIM a bit much… anyway) works for data and SMS but not for calls. I tried to fix it a bit… then honestly I like it without. Most of the calls I received are not important, nor urgent, and the few that are can leave a message or an SMS.
I stopped relying on my phone for calls entirely and I like it.
When I tell people it doesn’t work they just shrug it off and always find a way to contact me without making a big deal out of it.
I still like having a SIM though if only to
- check where I am on a path the first time I get there
- know if the person I’m meeting might be late
- warn if I’m late on the way to somewhere
but typically my phone works well entirely offline (e.g. I do not stream music, I have actual files on my phone) so I understand.
Honestly in your shoes I’d gauge the person, if they are potentially interesting enough to explore the topic with curiosity, I’d be honest. If I just want to move on because they seem obtuse I’d keep it to the minimum.
I achieve the same by disabling VoLTE and VoWiFi and setting the phone to LTE only in
*#*#4636#*#*.I love these service menus.
*#*#3646633#*#*has so much stuff to permanently screw up on some MediaTeks. But also some useful ones like selection of frequency bands, or even specific frequency and cell id.
But yeah, some settings can persist factory reset, and some may even be illegal like Tx tests (verified that it does transmit garbage on selected frequency with SDR) or IMEI change. Not all settings are on all devices, and they may even be partially broken.But yeah, these settings are don’t touch it for the most part (some are just huge lists of undocumented variables). Some don’t even seem to be resettable from the menu, I mean menus where you select one option, but by default they are unset. And the band mode selection on Moto G54 5G was… interesting. Rather than a nice selection menu, you can type in a number and select to add or remove it from a vector variable for 4G and 5G. Of course, nowhere does it list valid options or give a reset button.
And lastly a thing that serves me as a warning for future, when I was playing around with a leaked service program for some Realtek Ethernet adapter, I found out what eFuse memory is. There is no going back.
If you didn’t yet might want to play with Precursor
that first number singlehandedly helped me fix my mom’s phone. for context, 5g reception is quite mediocre where i live (especially if you’re on att, which my mom thankfully isn’t on). i went to network settings: no band toggle. i opened android’s advanced network settings menu: tried to gaslight me that this phone doesn’t have 4g (i know damn well it does). finally, that first number in your comment that opens
HiddenMenu, showed an entry called “NR debug” or something like that. and there it was: “Disable NR”. her phone is so much faster now, but idk how long that will persist since some phones change this shit behind your back after like a week.rant
to all the carriers and phone manufacturers: JUST GIVES US THE BUTTONS AND KNOBS. WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING AND FORCING US ON YOUR INFERIOR NETWORK IS NOT GOING TO CONVINCE US IT’S BETTER. 5G/NR IS JUST FUNDAMENTALLY A BAD IDEA TO USE FOR CELLULAR TELEPHONY. i miss the days of lte for internet, gsm/cdma for calls, like it was in 2019 and earlier. modern phones and vintage phones worked alike, and volte was merely an optional enhancement.
5G is fine when comparing with 4G. Just a step up. My issue with them is rather whatever is going on with VoLTE and VoNR. 2G/3G just worked for phone calls, but now you only get that guaranteed by purchasing a phone directly from the carrier. Hell, some carriers even blacklist or whitelist devices just because.
And in Australia phones are now getting blocked completely, even if they worked with VoLTE because the carrier decided they didn’t.. Hugh Jeffrey also made a video about that.
This is the scene from Parks and Rec where Ron Swanson has to eventually concede to getting a flip phone.
Public wi-fi is definitely not everywhere, but yeah, either you take joy in sharing the knowledge you have or you end up being a bit rude to prevent being asked.
That’s going to be highly dependent on where you live. In Tokyo I easily got around without service for years since there was wifi at every train station and convenience store
Not to be overly pedantic on the internet but something’s availability being ‘dependent on where’ is definitionally ‘not everywhere.’
Playing devil’s advocate, I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone, in case family dies or something and they don’t have access to the right app. That’s reasonable for close family to get upset about.
But you also don’t have to give that number out, heh.
I guess you could use Google Voice too, but that’s a bit… counterproductive unless you can sandbox the app.
I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone
Those are becoming harder and harder to find. It’s hard to even find prepaid SIM cards. You now have to buy a voucher, create an account, and add it there, which activates the phone for the number of months the voucher is worth.
