If you care so much about Palestine, why are you choosing to not vote against the party that is very openly on Israel side in this conflict and absolutely will not do anything to pressure Netanyahu?
I think maybe the question is what you think the Democrats have done to make you think they would make the situation worse for Palestine?
Like, my point is that the situation would at worst be the same with the Democrats in charge, but at least you wouldn’t have concentration caps at home.
Are you referring to that ICE had Detention facilities before Trump? Of course they did, but did Obama and Biden pack them so full of people that the conditions were near as bad? Not to mention ”Alligator Alcatraz” which is a clear escalation and seems very designed to be cruel.
What do you mean “of course they did”!? How is that not insane? How is that simply acceptable? Deportation is a civil process, there is absolutely no excuse for using armed goons to kidnap people at gunpoint and put them in concentration camps until their civil, non-criminal proceedings can be handled. That is fucking insane.
And YES Obama and biden packed them full. At the end of trump 1 there were 14k people in ice detention; at the end of biden there were 40k. The democrats don’t have the aesthetic of cruelty that you seem to object to so much, and I admit that it offends my aesthetic sensibilities as well, but comparing Obama 2, Trump 1, and Biden…apart from the aesthetic they’re all the same…actually Biden’s a lot worse. Trump 2 is obviously a crazy escalation (which the Democrats enabled by playing ball with this completely insane way of talking about and treating other human beings).
The US has always been rather strict with immigration so of course there has always been arrests of people being there illegally, and subsequently somewhere to detain them. It’s not like ICE is a new agency. Also, I believe a key nuance is that there were also an increase of immigrants following Trumps first term, which probably contributed a lot of the overcrowding result from that.
Could they have done better? Absolutely, but at least they’re not actively trying to make it worse.
ICE was a new agency when obama took over lol. He tripled their budget. They’re actively making it worse. Obama deported 3 million people, trump hasn’t caught up yet.
And no, you don’t have to arrest people in the country illegally. You give them an order to show up to their deportation hearing, and if they don’t show up then you arrest them for contempt of court…with like…normal police officers enforcing normal criminal law. But what a shock, people tend to just show up because people will comply voluntarily when the alternative is arrest. That’s how it always worked before ICE, and how it continued to work with ICE until Obama expanded them to the whole damn country (rather than the 14 counties they were in when Bush left)
It’s not only about the numbers, it’s about the methods and policies. Obama didn’t send ICE in to target specific cities of political opponents. He did not try to revoke the constitutional birthright citizenship. He did not push ICE to capture and deport people without due process. Under Obama, people didn’t feel like they had to have their passports on them out of fear of getting detained because they looked foreign.
I don’t see how that is relevant? They’re still both acting on behalf of the Republican party. It’s not like Trump personally is the problem, the whole party agrees with and enables everything he’s doing.
Which third party are you advocating?
I think maybe the question is what you think the Democrats have done to make you think they would make the situation worse for Palestine?
Like, my point is that the situation would at worst be the same with the Democrats in charge, but at least you wouldn’t have concentration caps at home.
You described both democrats and republicans and then moved the goalposts to hypotheticals about which genocidal party is worse.
the cages were built by Obama. biden used them. don’t delude yourself.
Are you referring to that ICE had Detention facilities before Trump? Of course they did, but did Obama and Biden pack them so full of people that the conditions were near as bad? Not to mention ”Alligator Alcatraz” which is a clear escalation and seems very designed to be cruel.
What do you mean “of course they did”!? How is that not insane? How is that simply acceptable? Deportation is a civil process, there is absolutely no excuse for using armed goons to kidnap people at gunpoint and put them in concentration camps until their civil, non-criminal proceedings can be handled. That is fucking insane.
And YES Obama and biden packed them full. At the end of trump 1 there were 14k people in ice detention; at the end of biden there were 40k. The democrats don’t have the aesthetic of cruelty that you seem to object to so much, and I admit that it offends my aesthetic sensibilities as well, but comparing Obama 2, Trump 1, and Biden…apart from the aesthetic they’re all the same…actually Biden’s a lot worse. Trump 2 is obviously a crazy escalation (which the Democrats enabled by playing ball with this completely insane way of talking about and treating other human beings).
The US has always been rather strict with immigration so of course there has always been arrests of people being there illegally, and subsequently somewhere to detain them. It’s not like ICE is a new agency. Also, I believe a key nuance is that there were also an increase of immigrants following Trumps first term, which probably contributed a lot of the overcrowding result from that.
Could they have done better? Absolutely, but at least they’re not actively trying to make it worse.
ICE was a new agency when obama took over lol. He tripled their budget. They’re actively making it worse. Obama deported 3 million people, trump hasn’t caught up yet.
And no, you don’t have to arrest people in the country illegally. You give them an order to show up to their deportation hearing, and if they don’t show up then you arrest them for contempt of court…with like…normal police officers enforcing normal criminal law. But what a shock, people tend to just show up because people will comply voluntarily when the alternative is arrest. That’s how it always worked before ICE, and how it continued to work with ICE until Obama expanded them to the whole damn country (rather than the 14 counties they were in when Bush left)
thank you
Obama was the deporter in chief. trump is still trying to catch up
It’s not only about the numbers, it’s about the methods and policies. Obama didn’t send ICE in to target specific cities of political opponents. He did not try to revoke the constitutional birthright citizenship. He did not push ICE to capture and deport people without due process. Under Obama, people didn’t feel like they had to have their passports on them out of fear of getting detained because they looked foreign.
I feel like you’re arguing in bad faith now tbh.
alligator alcatraz is ron desantis. he’s a governor.
I don’t see how that is relevant? They’re still both acting on behalf of the Republican party. It’s not like Trump personally is the problem, the whole party agrees with and enables everything he’s doing.
Democrats agree with what he’s doing, too. they just clutch their pearls about it until they get back into power
Which Democrats agree with that? Do you have anything to back up that claim?
Obama, Biden, Kamala, every senator and congressman who voted to empower ice…
edit: every Democrat in state and local office who cooperates with ice