Sky News contributor Sophie Elsworth says it has been reported Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor is forcing his very few staff to address him still as “sir,” despit...
Laws are needed for a civilized society. but civilization is a safe area we’ve created for ourselves in a dangerous jungle. When we step outside of our civilization we’re in a lawless place and we’re just surviving based on or abilities and judgement. There’s no legal way to eliminate the jungle, it will always be there. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bother to have nice things when living in our civilized society.
A lot of these hypotheticals and real world scenarios are just people going out from civilized behaviour to the edge of the jungle. Whether it’s a King making commands or a President ignoring the court, these are things that shouldn’t be done based on the norms and laws of our civilization. So we’re in jungle rules, we have to figure out how to deal with the problem based on just our abilities and out judgement.
I see your point that “if we all agree he has no power, any exercise will clearly be a problem” … except the monarchy is in constant contact with the governor general. You won’t know why the GG makes her choices.
Parliament would know. Their job is to represent the will of the people. If the GG or King weren’t doing as they were told by Parliament, the PM has able opportunity to say to the country “that’s not what I wanted them to say.”
Or consider this situation: https://donshafer1.substack.com/p/the-day-37-british-columbia-mlas . Imagine the King has business interests in BC and would benefit from this financially. He calls the GG, who calls the LG of BC to say “get this moving.” If the LG (or GG) went public, she’d lose her job. So she’d quietly do it.
There were 50 MLAs that voted against that. How would the LG be able to do this quietly without the 50 people that voted against it knowing about it? When legislation gets royal assent, it’s done so publicly. Someone reads it out in Parliament and the Governor gives it a nod. It’s all a formality really, but who would be the person in parliament reading out legislation that didn’t pass to a Governor in the first place? You’d have to have the Parliament’s Clerks in on the scheme and not have them leak it to the the representatives, And they would be fired if caught doing any of this. Laws obviously have to be published so people like your self can use them in court. How would a GG, LG, or the King himself be able to do something without the elected representatives who voted against it knowing about it?
And I think you have it backwards. If something like this were to happen, there would be no more King. Even if the King were to force laws to come into being somehow (don’t know how it would happen, so it wouldn’t be the normal process, therefore very obvious) people would know and either the King would have to undo the action and abdicate or we’d just cease to be a monarchy. We’d be in the jungle and we’d be acting on our abilities and judgement.
I’m not sure I like this jungle analogy, but in the analogy, I guess my point is that some laws “expand” civilization and “shrink” the jungle. They reduce the accessibility of “lawlessness” on the part of the government. You’re right, they can always still get there, but they make the jungle further away, make it harder to get there.
It’s simply not true that we’d know if the GG was being influenced by the monarch. If the GG decided to use reserve powers (or consider using them and decide not to, like they did in 2008) we would have no way of knowing whether the King of England was behind it or not. And if your thought is “it doesn’t matter we’d remove any GG or LG that tries to use any power at all” you’re obviously incorrect about that :P
I’m not saying a law, like the proposed one to abolish the HRT, would be passed in secret. I’m saying the political pressure would be secret. Of course the law must be passed publicly, and you’d have all kinds of yelling on both sides about it. In the alternative, if parliament passed something and the GG refused to give royal assent, likewise that would be very public. The influence on the GG, however, would not be!
I would love to imagine that any constitutional crisis would be resolved immediately in favor of democracy and not on the basis of the underlying issue but I think that’s very hopeful. I’m not sure how to make it more clear…I could come up with more hypothetical situations to demonstrate where the king could exercise undemocratic influence, but I don’t know why that would help! I’ll try one more and then I’ll leave it if this doesn’t help explain what I’m talking about:
Let’s imagine a parliament with a thin liberal majority, but it’s expected to flip soon due to some unpopular decisions. Parliament narrowly passes a law that the Citadel of Quebec is going to become a public museum operated by the federal government. The Conservatives hate this because they consider it a waste of taxpayer dollars. The King privately opposes it because he quite likes having a vacation home in Quebec. The GG doesn’t give royal assent, but says it’s for some technical deficiency, expecting an election to remove the issue…or alternatively simply says outright that the Conservatives are correct and the government can’t afford it…or somesuch mildly-plausible excuse that the milquetoast canadian middle class will accept (I only suppose the thin liberal majority in order to make this plausible excuse, but you could certainly imagine others if the liberal hold on parliament was strong). If the GG does not give royal assent…you think we’d go into a constitutional crisis? I don’t think anyone would think it’s worthwhile (which, of course, means that such a law wouldn’t pass…which is its own kind of influence being exercised passively by the Crown!).
Laws are needed for a civilized society. but civilization is a safe area we’ve created for ourselves in a dangerous jungle. When we step outside of our civilization we’re in a lawless place and we’re just surviving based on or abilities and judgement. There’s no legal way to eliminate the jungle, it will always be there. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bother to have nice things when living in our civilized society.
A lot of these hypotheticals and real world scenarios are just people going out from civilized behaviour to the edge of the jungle. Whether it’s a King making commands or a President ignoring the court, these are things that shouldn’t be done based on the norms and laws of our civilization. So we’re in jungle rules, we have to figure out how to deal with the problem based on just our abilities and out judgement.
Parliament would know. Their job is to represent the will of the people. If the GG or King weren’t doing as they were told by Parliament, the PM has able opportunity to say to the country “that’s not what I wanted them to say.”
There were 50 MLAs that voted against that. How would the LG be able to do this quietly without the 50 people that voted against it knowing about it? When legislation gets royal assent, it’s done so publicly. Someone reads it out in Parliament and the Governor gives it a nod. It’s all a formality really, but who would be the person in parliament reading out legislation that didn’t pass to a Governor in the first place? You’d have to have the Parliament’s Clerks in on the scheme and not have them leak it to the the representatives, And they would be fired if caught doing any of this. Laws obviously have to be published so people like your self can use them in court. How would a GG, LG, or the King himself be able to do something without the elected representatives who voted against it knowing about it?
There’s a lot of process and ceremony involved in this: https://www.ourcommons.ca/procedure/our-procedure/LegislativeProcess/c_g_legislativeprocess-e.html How would you slip some secret laws through all of that process?
And I think you have it backwards. If something like this were to happen, there would be no more King. Even if the King were to force laws to come into being somehow (don’t know how it would happen, so it wouldn’t be the normal process, therefore very obvious) people would know and either the King would have to undo the action and abdicate or we’d just cease to be a monarchy. We’d be in the jungle and we’d be acting on our abilities and judgement.
I’m not sure I like this jungle analogy, but in the analogy, I guess my point is that some laws “expand” civilization and “shrink” the jungle. They reduce the accessibility of “lawlessness” on the part of the government. You’re right, they can always still get there, but they make the jungle further away, make it harder to get there.
It’s simply not true that we’d know if the GG was being influenced by the monarch. If the GG decided to use reserve powers (or consider using them and decide not to, like they did in 2008) we would have no way of knowing whether the King of England was behind it or not. And if your thought is “it doesn’t matter we’d remove any GG or LG that tries to use any power at all” you’re obviously incorrect about that :P
I’m not saying a law, like the proposed one to abolish the HRT, would be passed in secret. I’m saying the political pressure would be secret. Of course the law must be passed publicly, and you’d have all kinds of yelling on both sides about it. In the alternative, if parliament passed something and the GG refused to give royal assent, likewise that would be very public. The influence on the GG, however, would not be!
I would love to imagine that any constitutional crisis would be resolved immediately in favor of democracy and not on the basis of the underlying issue but I think that’s very hopeful. I’m not sure how to make it more clear…I could come up with more hypothetical situations to demonstrate where the king could exercise undemocratic influence, but I don’t know why that would help! I’ll try one more and then I’ll leave it if this doesn’t help explain what I’m talking about:
Let’s imagine a parliament with a thin liberal majority, but it’s expected to flip soon due to some unpopular decisions. Parliament narrowly passes a law that the Citadel of Quebec is going to become a public museum operated by the federal government. The Conservatives hate this because they consider it a waste of taxpayer dollars. The King privately opposes it because he quite likes having a vacation home in Quebec. The GG doesn’t give royal assent, but says it’s for some technical deficiency, expecting an election to remove the issue…or alternatively simply says outright that the Conservatives are correct and the government can’t afford it…or somesuch mildly-plausible excuse that the milquetoast canadian middle class will accept (I only suppose the thin liberal majority in order to make this plausible excuse, but you could certainly imagine others if the liberal hold on parliament was strong). If the GG does not give royal assent…you think we’d go into a constitutional crisis? I don’t think anyone would think it’s worthwhile (which, of course, means that such a law wouldn’t pass…which is its own kind of influence being exercised passively by the Crown!).