Sheep exit in the wild, they don’t require humans to sheer them.
We have bred a variety of sheep’s to be so extremely unhealthy that they will literally die without frequent human intervention.
You can let the unhealthy sheep breeds we have made continue their life and ensure they don’t reproduce. That isn’t “genocide of sheep”, sheep will still exist.
However if you’re so concerned with their wellbeing, I suppose you could slowly partner them with more natural breeds and undo the traits over many generations but that’s prolonging their suffering.
As for the resources produced while keeping them alive, i.e. wool - who cares? If your goal is to end their suffering permanently, very few would bat an eyelash to using that for something productive or throwing it away or anything else because in a few short years it would cease to be a problem ever again.
Sheep exit in the wild, they don’t require humans to sheer them
No they don’t. Sheep (ovis aries) are a domesticated species.
If you mean the wild versions sometimes named “sheep” like “Bighorn sheep”, that is the genus ovis, yes, but you’ll note a definite lack of a crucial thing if you actually look at what “wild sheep” look like:
Can you spot which one is the domesticated one?
Hint:
We have bred a variety of sheep’s to be so extremely unhealthy that they will literally die without frequent human intervention.
Just because an animal is dependent on humans doesn’t make it unhealthy. None of the domesticated animals could just survive themselves, aside from perhaps horses. And cats ofc, but technically cats aren’t domesticated, they’ve semi-self-domesticated themselves, while retaining complete functionality.
Keeping pets is immoral to me. So I hope you’re not arguing these things while you keep an animal hostage.
natural breeds and undo the traits over many generations but that’s prolonging their suffering.
And in the meanwhile? You’ve still not answered whether a person who, let’s say, is actively breeding domesticated sheep to have less wool and be more independent (and that’s not how things work with animals in general just because dogs are incredibly fast to change with breeding, their ability to adapt so fast and the genotypic variability they have is utterly incredible) who only cares for the sheep, as they still have to shear the sheep.
So is that wool moral to use or not? You simply won’t answer, because no-one has given you the answer and you have to go an authority instead of being able to form your own opinions.
i.e. wool - who cares?
Vegans. That’s the entire point. Irrational, absolutist vegans.
So what about the deer?
If you’re for reducing suffering, then you have to be pro-deer management. And if you’re for reducing suffering, then trying to assert wolves killing deer as somehow causing less suffering is idiotic. Not to mention trying to put wolf packs into central Europe.
Absolutes don’t work. This should surprise no-one over the age of 15.
Here, I already have this downloaded from earlier from replying to someone making the same argument:
Sheep exit in the wild, they don’t require humans to sheer them
No they don’t. Sheep (ovis aries) are a domesticated species.
If you mean the wild versions sometimes named “sheep” like “Bighorn sheep”, that is the genus ovis, yes, but you’ll note a definite lack of a crucial thing if you actually look at what “wild sheep” look like:
Can you spot which one is the domesticated one?
Hint:
You’re not only irrational, you’re also rather ignorant. Even if you weren’t wrong, I don’t see how that would influence domestic sheep. Do you think you can just set them free and be done with it and that’s that? And you genuinely don’t see how that’s irrational? :Dd
Not a single person has yet answered me, just like no vegan ever can. You keep on bringing up the most ridiculous shit while actively dodging the answering of a single question, and it’s not a gotcha of any sort. It’s an example. Of which I can think of tons of.
The next one being deer population control. If the aim of veganism is to reduce animal and human suffering, and you’re not ignorant of basic biology, then you have to be for deer population control. And at that point it’s usually the “bring back the wolves” bs, which I’ve gone through a dozen times in this thread as well. First off, that would not decrease suffering, it would increase it. Secondly, wolves into population centers? And again, the same people refuse to even question that their /your ideology could be faulty in any way.
. . . Mate, go look at the comment chain I am replying to exactly that already.
Feral, do you understand the word? It means domesticated animal that has spent enough time living away from humans in the wild to naturally adapt to life without them.
“A sheep ran away so it just stopped making wool because it really really wanted to”
Mate, that’s not how biology works.
Normally sheeps which escape just die from several complications from too much wool, which is why they write “pulled from certain death” in all the articles concerning this world record sheep who against all odds made it and was found and saved.
And what are you even implying? That because that sheep survived, sheep don’t need shearing? But they do, that’s an undeniable fact. So are you advocating we just completely abandon all sheep? Open the gates and they’ll run out into the wild and be happy with a ton of wool which will cause all sorts of health issues?
You just have to keep pushing the goalposts further and further away… because you can’t admit there’s a flaw in the so called ideology of veganism.
See you literally ignore every single argument and question and go back to trying to make this personal. Veganism is irrational, and you can’t accept that.
Yes, there’s a rare breed that’s so close to the domesticated species. People’s don’t even know where the breed comes from.
And pray tell what it has to do with a vast vast… vast majority of its species being dependent on people? You’re it’ll implying "lol look at this rare breed sheep which we don’t know the origin of. Look. They exist. Thus you can just free all sheep they’ll just become like the arapawa sheep because they really wish to.
You haven’t answered anything. You think you have an answer or a gotcha, but you don’t even have that. What your writing is subconscious projection, because you yourself are quite literally being obtuse. You’re not making an argument, but wild implications which matter fuck all.
Because… veganism is irrational. and you simply can’t handle it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sheep exit in the wild, they don’t require humans to sheer them.
We have bred a variety of sheep’s to be so extremely unhealthy that they will literally die without frequent human intervention.
You can let the unhealthy sheep breeds we have made continue their life and ensure they don’t reproduce. That isn’t “genocide of sheep”, sheep will still exist.
However if you’re so concerned with their wellbeing, I suppose you could slowly partner them with more natural breeds and undo the traits over many generations but that’s prolonging their suffering.
As for the resources produced while keeping them alive, i.e. wool - who cares? If your goal is to end their suffering permanently, very few would bat an eyelash to using that for something productive or throwing it away or anything else because in a few short years it would cease to be a problem ever again.
No they don’t. Sheep (ovis aries) are a domesticated species.
If you mean the wild versions sometimes named “sheep” like “Bighorn sheep”, that is the genus ovis, yes, but you’ll note a definite lack of a crucial thing if you actually look at what “wild sheep” look like:
Can you spot which one is the domesticated one?
Hint:
Just because an animal is dependent on humans doesn’t make it unhealthy. None of the domesticated animals could just survive themselves, aside from perhaps horses. And cats ofc, but technically cats aren’t domesticated, they’ve semi-self-domesticated themselves, while retaining complete functionality.
Keeping pets is immoral to me. So I hope you’re not arguing these things while you keep an animal hostage.
And in the meanwhile? You’ve still not answered whether a person who, let’s say, is actively breeding domesticated sheep to have less wool and be more independent (and that’s not how things work with animals in general just because dogs are incredibly fast to change with breeding, their ability to adapt so fast and the genotypic variability they have is utterly incredible) who only cares for the sheep, as they still have to shear the sheep.
So is that wool moral to use or not? You simply won’t answer, because no-one has given you the answer and you have to go an authority instead of being able to form your own opinions.
Vegans. That’s the entire point. Irrational, absolutist vegans.
So what about the deer?
If you’re for reducing suffering, then you have to be pro-deer management. And if you’re for reducing suffering, then trying to assert wolves killing deer as somehow causing less suffering is idiotic. Not to mention trying to put wolf packs into central Europe.
Absolutes don’t work. This should surprise no-one over the age of 15.
Feral sheep exist, living without human intervention or need for shearing.
The only irrational person here is you, trying to argue “sheep genocide” like its some gotcha worth harming animals for.
Pfftt.
Here, I already have this downloaded from earlier from replying to someone making the same argument:
No they don’t. Sheep (ovis aries) are a domesticated species.
If you mean the wild versions sometimes named “sheep” like “Bighorn sheep”, that is the genus ovis, yes, but you’ll note a definite lack of a crucial thing if you actually look at what “wild sheep” look like:
Can you spot which one is the domesticated one?
Hint:
You’re not only irrational, you’re also rather ignorant. Even if you weren’t wrong, I don’t see how that would influence domestic sheep. Do you think you can just set them free and be done with it and that’s that? And you genuinely don’t see how that’s irrational? :Dd
Not a single person has yet answered me, just like no vegan ever can. You keep on bringing up the most ridiculous shit while actively dodging the answering of a single question, and it’s not a gotcha of any sort. It’s an example. Of which I can think of tons of.
The next one being deer population control. If the aim of veganism is to reduce animal and human suffering, and you’re not ignorant of basic biology, then you have to be for deer population control. And at that point it’s usually the “bring back the wolves” bs, which I’ve gone through a dozen times in this thread as well. First off, that would not decrease suffering, it would increase it. Secondly, wolves into population centers? And again, the same people refuse to even question that their /your ideology could be faulty in any way.
It’s ridiculous.
. . . Mate, go look at the comment chain I am replying to exactly that already.
Feral, do you understand the word? It means domesticated animal that has spent enough time living away from humans in the wild to naturally adapt to life without them.
“A sheep ran away so it just stopped making wool because it really really wanted to”
Mate, that’s not how biology works.
Normally sheeps which escape just die from several complications from too much wool, which is why they write “pulled from certain death” in all the articles concerning this world record sheep who against all odds made it and was found and saved.
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2021/02/24/baarack-sheep-australia-over-75-pounds-wool-rescued/4572513001/
And what are you even implying? That because that sheep survived, sheep don’t need shearing? But they do, that’s an undeniable fact. So are you advocating we just completely abandon all sheep? Open the gates and they’ll run out into the wild and be happy with a ton of wool which will cause all sorts of health issues?
You just have to keep pushing the goalposts further and further away… because you can’t admit there’s a flaw in the so called ideology of veganism.
Are you doing a bit or something? Like trying to be obnoxiously obtuse for the lulz?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arapawa_sheep
Is an example of feral sheep, that over generations of non-human interactions have evolved back the traits needed to survive on their own.
See you literally ignore every single argument and question and go back to trying to make this personal. Veganism is irrational, and you can’t accept that.
Yes, there’s a rare breed that’s so close to the domesticated species. People’s don’t even know where the breed comes from.
And pray tell what it has to do with a vast vast… vast majority of its species being dependent on people? You’re it’ll implying "lol look at this rare breed sheep which we don’t know the origin of. Look. They exist. Thus you can just free all sheep they’ll just become like the arapawa sheep because they really wish to.
You haven’t answered anything. You think you have an answer or a gotcha, but you don’t even have that. What your writing is subconscious projection, because you yourself are quite literally being obtuse. You’re not making an argument, but wild implications which matter fuck all.
Because… veganism is irrational. and you simply can’t handle it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Okay you’re just a fucking troll. Noted.