I find it alarming that to “protect” women, men have to be surveilled secretly in all public places. This is way beyond dystopian.
AI and remote security personnel get to decide if someone is “a predator” and take 'em down preemptively if they look suspicious.
What could possibly go wrong?
The UK is a dystopian shithole. They took 1984 and used it as an instruction manual.
This is global. My town is installing Flock cameras to “stop dangerous speeding and red-light running”. Never mind that it also is networked with every single other camera, reads license plates, and use AI to track people everywhere they go. There’s no danger, though. That’s just coincidence…
lol
If it helps, a lot of these stories don’t go anywhere in the end.
CCTV cameras are a lot more accepted, but it’s not as extreme as the media often makes it out to be.
The article shows how this tech is already in use in places like King’s Cross.
Not really, it’s just one wanna-be entrepeneur and a handful of knobheads wanting to implement it.
You wanna see dystopian shithole then check US news lmao
A man arrives and sits right beside her, making her feel uncomfortable and unsafe.
It’s time to patent public bench with gender taser.
[PENIS DETECTED]
bzzzzzap!
Pretty transphobic!
Their wet dream is a pay to use bench that has pointy spikes keeping you from sitting down until you pay, and it also verifies your identity by scanning your face or government issue ID so it knows what gender you are regardless of your genital status or if you are homeless so it can deny you even after paying.
Insane the sort of shit people propose. At this rate they’ll ask to install cameras in our homes to “detect domestic violence events” or to detect “terrorist activities”
Hah! They don’t have to. Many have “assistants” listening constantly, door cameras linked to central surveillance hubs, security cameras also linked to those hubs. It’s too late for most people - they took the bait. Hell, even the televisions record audio and send it back to the hub, and I’ve heard now that cameras are the new rage for them so we can “control the TV with motion”. Yeah, most are already cooked. I had to replace my old LG, bought a new one. I didn’t give it access to the internet. Even so, who knows if it’s still secretly doing it? And then there are our phones in which they swear they’re not tracking us. Yet, plenty of proof they are in fact recording our conversations and tracking our locations.
The idea is, on that deserted railway platform, the lasers would spot the unnecessarily close choice of seat, registering it as unusual and a potential threat. Security teams would then be alerted and could either direct CCTV for a closer look or send staff in person if needed.
Me when I get arrested for sitting down in public. This is definitely not going to drive young men towards figures like andrew tate
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Do you remember the social media panic over ‘man spreading’ or whatever? This whole thesis that men sit with their legs spread in public spaces to specifically deny women a place to sit?
It was so wild. And everyone ate it up. And if you pointed out how many women dump their bags on seats and take up 2-3 extra seats… you were a misogynist attacking hard working women who were just trying to bring their shopping home.
It can’t just be that people who take up extra space are the jerks.
Yep. Same with man vs bear discourse. It’s all scissor statements, and people eat it the fuck up because we all need an enemy
Thanks for the link. I never heard that term before. Super interesting. But very common rhetorical device these days.
that was the only video that women ever appeared in to talk about that I’m fairly certain, or maybe I’m thinking about the woman that’s talking about gaming and male gaming fantasies.
yeah sorry about that I was thinking about this woman
There is absolutely no clarity on how this laser based system monitors people on the ground. Is it like a radar? How does the system determine from a laser that the target is a woman, man or non binary?
More needs to be done to protect women but mass surveillance with iffy claims about privacy ain’t the way
absolutely no clarity on how this laser based system monitors people on the ground
Re: Theranos
It’s Elizabeth Holmes bullshit all over again lol
It seeds nanoparticles at the quantum level to generate a molecular positronic array. Think of it like putting too much air into a balloon. There will be no more technical questions.
We’re talking the same AI systems that protect children from lethal bags of chips, and the same kind of premise that lead to vulnerable women getting their info stolen?
Wow, the Baltimore one I didn’t know about and that’s also beyond dystopian. Jeez, the response by authorities being “sorry, but it did the right thing, move along” reminds me of the movie “Brazil”. If you read the article, you already know that yes, it’s like that one, but in England, and every public place. Worse though, because it’s judgment of where you stand, sit, walk or cast your eyes in relation to any woman in the area.
Rosie Richardson is working to develop a technology to help keep women and girls safe in public spaces
Not another Elizabeth Holmes clone, ffs.
Just stop with the black turtleneck She-E-O bullshit. What a maroon you’d have to be to invest in this
She does have the empty eyes of a soulless narcissist.
Why not sell it as a big laser quest game? #YesAllMen /jk
Women are slightly more than half the population (51%?) and experience the most harrassment. I think something needs to be done but maybe not a dystopian measure. How about a shared register of dangerous men made by competent devs (not outsourced) that don’t leave the s3 bucket open to the intetnet unencrypted? Or - given that the police are useless - make the process of getting a restraining order more straight forward, require less evidence.
Oh, you mean like the Spill the Tea app? That would never be used to infringe on privacy or destroy reputations of innocent people, right? Right?
I’m not going to go further and turn this into a discussion for a different forum, except to suggest a search on harassment and gender. Regardless of gender issues this and similar “protective” activities only serve to enhance control over populations.
I was referring to that app when mentioning the poor engineering choices that were made. My thinking is more along the lines of your co-commenter, sex offender++, or smth
They already have sex offender lists. People duly convicted by a jury of their peers.
I don’t know how available this is in every country but something like an enhanced version of that
This will end well.
This article is using every trick in the dystopian playbook to try to emotionally appeal to people. Protecting women, especially the young girls!
“I think we have to develop solutions that put the responsibility back into other places like public authorities, owners of spaces, police forces,” she says.
But she still comes out and says what she really wants: more power vested into private, wealthy owners of spaces, to the state, and to the police.
Surely nothing can go wrong. Surely this is about equality for everyone and it definitely won’t disproportionately impact men of color. Surely this won’t run afoul of any tricky edge cases like trans people. Surely this won’t be used to deliscriminate against the poors while still allowing anyone in an expensive suit to do whatever the fuck they want.
This article is using every trick in the dystopian playbook to try to emotionally appeal to people. Protecting women, especially the young girls!
Oh man, PhilosophyTube has an character-devoted bit to this lol
Almost all assaults are done by people the victim knows, in private. This does nothing to prevent that.
If students have to use AI in order to make it look like they’re not using AI — what on earth will a system like this do to people? Quite how it will be able to read the intent of people’s actions without throwing up a huge number of false-positives is something that I don’t understand.
And quite what workers are supposed to do when they receive an ‘alert’ of this nature, I’m not sure. Go up to the individual and tell them that their behaviour has been flagged as suspicious? Way to make me feel more anxious in public.
No, it already does. Facial-ID stuff already throws hundreds of false positives.
We’ll do anything but force men to take accountability for their actions and to change our culture.
So your take-away from this article about a surveillance tool that seeks patterns of behavior and movement amongst hundreds of random people in a public space is “those privileged men will do anything to remain unaccountable” for… minding their business on in the tube, mall, or sidewalk? This is waaaayyy bigger than that level of bigotry, and in fact pandering to that very bigotry is exactly the tool used to get 51% of the population on board with implementing it without considering the very real consequences for them.
I misread the situation. Ignore what I said.
I think their point is that this technology will continue the trend of not making men take accountability for their actions. Expanding surveillance and preemptively arresting guys for being awkward does nothing to put guys like Brock Allen Turner (aka Brock Turner) (aka Allen Turner) in jail for raping people.
Definitely better ways to phrase it though. A lot of people think that “forcing men to take accountability for their actions” means “forcing all men to take accountability for all other men’s actions,” but that’s not really what they said
What pragmatically can anyone do?
Am I suppose to stalk my female friends 24/7 like a vigilante to prevent them from being assaulted? Maybe put a webcam in their bedroom and watch every sexual encounter they have to make sure they aren’t assaulted? At that point I am the sex criminal.
The very premise that other people are responsible for someone else’s crimes is totally absurd. We don’t do this with say… bank robberies. Most bank robberies are done by men, and yet I don’t hear how it’s every man’s job to stop bank robberies from every happening. The people who are supposed to stop that are security guards and police. Are we supposed to have some sort of anti-SA police force that goes around policing every social interaction men and women have in public?
There are countries that do have that very thing…
Yes there are. Perhaps the “between the lines” of all this is that to protect women, they should be confined to the home and when out (with permission and escort of course) they should be covered head to toe in garments that hide everything but the eyes!
Oh, wait…
It’s a more complicated situation than any one person can have an answer to. That said, I think a large part of the problem is that we live in a society that normalizes sexual assault to an extent. Everyone knows that rape is bad, just like everyone knows that robbing banks is bad. The difference is that most bank robbers don’t delude themselves into thinking that they’re somehow innocent of any wrongdoing. They might offer personal circumstances as some sort of justification for having robbed a bank, but by and large when someone robs a bank, they know they’ve robbed a bank.
Contrast that with sexual assault, where by and large people who commit sexual assault rationalize their crimes to the point where they believe themselves to be fully innocent. Most people believe themselves to be “good people.” Since I’m a good person and good people don’t rape, that means the sex I had wasn’t rape.
She was into it when we started. She never said no. Did you see what she was wearing? She was asleep, it was a victimless crime. I just couldn’t control myself. He’s 14, but he wasn’t complaining. He’s bigger and stronger than me, if he doesn’t want it he can stop me any time.
All bank robbers know that they are bank robbers, but most rapists don’t know that they are rapists. And you’re right to ask what anyone can do, because that’s a very hard question to answer. My friends don’t tell me when they have sex, and they certainly don’t tell me about the circumstances of the sex they have. If they’re doing sexual assaults, there’s literally no way for me to know.
That’s why I think it has to be an enormous cultural shift. We have to instill in the minds of everyone that if a person can’t and/or doesn’t enthusiastically agree to sexual contact, then sexual contact is sexual assault. We also have to instill in everyone’s minds that there is no such thing as a “good” or “bad” person, there’s just people. Everyone is capable of doing good or bad things.
Rationalizing the mass surveillance by claiming people rationalize their bad behavior (no way to really know that) is a very bad approach.
Rule of law is concrete. If one thinks they’re a good person while both taking someone else’s agency and breaking a felony-level law, that is on them. Taking away everybody else’s freedom and privacy because some people are narcissistic sociopaths is the kind of thing authoritarian narcissistic sociopaths do to get and maintain control.
We don’t have to instill in the minds of anyone anything other than basic human empathy and an understanding of the Golden Rule as a starting point of social interaction.
People forget that the surveilling party can be narcissistic sociopaths like anybody else. The difference is the scale of damage they can do.
When did I rationalize mass surveillance?
Yeah, but it’s worse than that. Some people don’t even know they were raped. Some people, think you not raping them is worse than raping them. For some being enthusiastic consent happens at the moment of the act, but then is revoked retroactively due to guilt and shame.
Rape and SA don’t really have very clear cut and obvious cases, esp from the victim or the perpetuator’s POV. It’s easy to judge it from an external POV, naturally. But it’s VERY gray. I have had so many sexual encounters that were so messy, including encounters where there was no sex, and the other party accused me SA for not raping them, because in their twisted mentality, my lack of overbearing sexual desire was somehow insulting and painful for them. Literally, I had a woman over, she was falling over drunk, so I put her to sleep on my couch, and the next morning she sent me a flurry of texts about how I had SA her and violated her by not sleeping with her and she was going to post my info all over the internet and make sure I was punished for being a good person because how DARE I not take advantage of her what is wrong with me, I must be gay, etc.
I didn’t have sex with her because she barely conscious and it would be rape. And yet, her mind, I was still an evil-doing bad guy because it hurt her feelings for me to not rape her while she was semi-conscious. I can’t say for certain, but I suspect his woman was clearly a previous victim of sexual abuse. I’ve also had similar encounters with women in the case of physical abuse, where the encounter was “be a man and hit me to prove to me you care.”
Peoples mentalities around sex are not cut and dry. They are incredibly messy and fraught. Lots of people pressure other people into sex, or feel compelled to have sex because they know the relationship can’t progress or be secured without it. When I first started dating, I quickly learned that most women expected me to be sexually aggressive ASAP and if I asking them for sex, I wasn’t interested. So had to learn to fake an interest just so I had more opportunity to continue to see them. Lots of dates think I am a pussy if I don’t try to force myself on them.
I’ve also had so many other encounters where people lectured me on safe sex, consent, etc. but then when we were in the sexual act, they demanded I sleep with them without a condom, and then retroactively decided that doing so was wrong/bad. Or, that I was a pussy for wanting to use a condom. Some of those encounters also result in physical/sexual assault on myself by the woman. I’ve also had horrible sexual encounters that I hated, where the other party thought it was AMAZING and vice versa.
I mean really, there is no ‘solution’ unless you’re going to have some neutral third party observing all sexual relations between people. People themselves are not capable of that. They have zero objectivity about themselves the vast majority of the time and they their narrative in the heat of the moment is VERY different than it is before or after that moment. You can be VERY clear ahead of time about what you want and your boundaries… but that in no way means the other person cares or listens or they don’t change those desires/boundaries during the act.
Not to mention that some people are very bitter when faced with rejection and will retroactively change the entire relationship’s story post-breakup. During the relationship you are charming and wonderful and compassionate, but post-breakup you’re a manipulative evil person who seduced and took advantage of them…
What is the solution to any of that? You require some sort of psychological assessment or licensing before you are allowed to give consent?
I don’t think there is any ‘solution.’ I just think shitty people are shitty and it has nothing to do with culture. And shitty people will victimize others and make themselves out to be the victims, because yes, like you said, they are ‘good people’ and they can never do anything wrong. They are sex-positive and open minded and perfect! They could never assault anyone!
You can’t force anyone to take accountability for their actions. Either they voluntarily take accountability for their actions, or you police their actions.
You’re missing the point, it’s mass population control. Over here in maga states we have women fearing period tracking apps coz abortion. Even Facebook will sell info on women to data buyers to track them.
Ah, of course, that’s the fascist strategy these days.
If unusual behaviours are detected, for example a large group of people moves suddenly or in an unexpected way, security teams on the ground are alerted and can check if there is a problem.
Yes this will definitely be used only for its intended purpose
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