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God I hate this new phone the screen is just the tiniest bit too small and I keep hitting the left most suggestion instead of the middle one, turning ares into aren’ts and woulds into wouldn’ts.
I’m sure you know what I meant.
Pretending they aren’t massively popular exactly because they make the whole thing easier and more comfortable (browsing menus you know are up to date, being able to specify allergies as much as you want, etc) would be incredibly naive.
Is capitalism using it aa a possibility to exploit even more? Yes. Does that suck balls? Yes. But does is the tech itself shit? No.
Capitalism enshittifies everything. Automation isn’t cursed at because the current economic system mean that the working classes will get less, and that is a bad thing. The technology isn’t. So the tech isn’t the issue. Capitalism is.
I use them only when it’s free (ie someone else is paying for it). I hate them so much. They are not more convenient, they increase the price by 100% and they actively hurt people and small businesses.
A quick web search shows plenty of anecdotes to the contrary.
being able to specify allergies as much as you want
And you trust that?? If I had a serious food allergy I would absolutely NOT trust that a food delivery service would communicate those effectively given how much they push restaurants around, up to and including adding restaurants without their knowledge or consent.
I suppose in the strictest sense, sure, these apps are convenient, but you sure are paying a lot for it, and some restaurants charge extra for it on top of the fees, and the delivery folks aren’t getting a fair cut of the fees. Most of the fees go to big tech.
You’re literally arguing that a billion dollar industry isn’t actually a popular service.
If it’s so much better and more convenient to order by phone, why does almost no-one do it anymore?
And you trust that?? I
I live in Finland, qe have very strict food regulations, but no, I don’t completely trust it. But for well rated high quality restaurants, yeah, mostly.
d, up to and including adding restaurants without their knowledge or consent.
Again this is nothing to do with the tech and that isn’t happening country. What youre against is shit business practice, exploitation and abusing new tech.
Now without too much into any sort of politics, a lot of restaurants are immigrant run, and especially here in Finland, there is a language barrier. And it doesn’t help that most Finns are asshat racists so people feel even less comfortable asking if they got something wrong.
I used to order on the phone all the time as I was doing it before these apps ever came along. So many fucker orders.
I do oppose the abuse and exploitation that poorly regulated food service apps enable, but I’m not against the actual tech.
Obviously if you say “just ignore shitty businesses and practices, the fundamental idea of being able to order from an app is great”…well, sure. I’m not arguing about the idea of apps. I’m arguing about the current status quo.
I have never once said “ignore the shitty business practices”.
I’m saying the underlying tech will remain, and that it is good. That episode was bad. I’ve seen it. But let me tell you, the working condition of the people here in the Nordic are somewhat different. The companies are still shit heads and there are problems but thrive already won the right for the rights of employees, instead of being contractors.
I. Like you. Am against bad business practice and exploitation. Not against tech when it can be used for good.
Still can some places, but generally it came down to keeping a drawer of menus for restaurants you like, family looks at the menu, call up the restaurant, and they deliver for a fixed known fee (or more often free, above a normal order threshold of maybe $20 which would be $30-40 today). It would come directly from the restaurant, no petulant third party complaining about whether or not you tipped enough ahead of time of service to be worth treating you and your property with respect (ie nobody would eat your food if they didn’t like you).
It really was a fine state. I now appreciate that some places let you order online and then just pay normal prices when you pick it up. Great too. The centralized nature of door dash and GrubHub are a pain in the ass. First I have to poke through all of the adverts for McDonald’s and subway, then I have to figure out which restaurants are ripping me off with their online prices, deal with guessing which things have extra fees and which things have “waived” fees, use the mediocre UI that still friends on restaurants to do the hard work of adding pictured and sane descriptions (they usually don’t), and then guess how much tip will get my food delivered while it’s still warm by the “independent contractor” assigned my case. More middlemen means more people trying to sap you dry.
God I hate this new phone the screen is just the tiniest bit too small and I keep hitting the left most suggestion instead of the middle one, turning ares into aren’ts and woulds into wouldn’ts.
I’m sure you know what I meant.
Pretending they aren’t massively popular exactly because they make the whole thing easier and more comfortable (browsing menus you know are up to date, being able to specify allergies as much as you want, etc) would be incredibly naive.
Is capitalism using it aa a possibility to exploit even more? Yes. Does that suck balls? Yes. But does is the tech itself shit? No.
Capitalism enshittifies everything. Automation isn’t cursed at because the current economic system mean that the working classes will get less, and that is a bad thing. The technology isn’t. So the tech isn’t the issue. Capitalism is.
I use them only when it’s free (ie someone else is paying for it). I hate them so much. They are not more convenient, they increase the price by 100% and they actively hurt people and small businesses.
Theyre ripoffs especially in the US.
But the popularity of the tech, despite the enshittification They still are popular.
But the underlying tech is good and convenient.
A quick web search shows plenty of anecdotes to the contrary.
And you trust that?? If I had a serious food allergy I would absolutely NOT trust that a food delivery service would communicate those effectively given how much they push restaurants around, up to and including adding restaurants without their knowledge or consent.
I suppose in the strictest sense, sure, these apps are convenient, but you sure are paying a lot for it, and some restaurants charge extra for it on top of the fees, and the delivery folks aren’t getting a fair cut of the fees. Most of the fees go to big tech.
You’re literally arguing that a billion dollar industry isn’t actually a popular service.
If it’s so much better and more convenient to order by phone, why does almost no-one do it anymore?
I live in Finland, qe have very strict food regulations, but no, I don’t completely trust it. But for well rated high quality restaurants, yeah, mostly.
Again this is nothing to do with the tech and that isn’t happening country. What youre against is shit business practice, exploitation and abusing new tech.
Now without too much into any sort of politics, a lot of restaurants are immigrant run, and especially here in Finland, there is a language barrier. And it doesn’t help that most Finns are asshat racists so people feel even less comfortable asking if they got something wrong.
I used to order on the phone all the time as I was doing it before these apps ever came along. So many fucker orders.
I do oppose the abuse and exploitation that poorly regulated food service apps enable, but I’m not against the actual tech.
Their business model isn’t necessarily functional
Start here https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aFsfJYWpqII
Obviously if you say “just ignore shitty businesses and practices, the fundamental idea of being able to order from an app is great”…well, sure. I’m not arguing about the idea of apps. I’m arguing about the current status quo.
I have never once said “ignore the shitty business practices”.
I’m saying the underlying tech will remain, and that it is good. That episode was bad. I’ve seen it. But let me tell you, the working condition of the people here in the Nordic are somewhat different. The companies are still shit heads and there are problems but thrive already won the right for the rights of employees, instead of being contractors.
I. Like you. Am against bad business practice and exploitation. Not against tech when it can be used for good.
What about the technology that runs food delivery services do you find so compelling? I don’t see what’s so special about any of it.
Were you old enough to order food before apps?
My first job was washing dishes in a restaurant half a decade before the iPhone released, so yes
I believe Pizza Hut had online ordering at the time, but via their website amd the drivers probably all worked directly for the individual Pizza Huts
Still can some places, but generally it came down to keeping a drawer of menus for restaurants you like, family looks at the menu, call up the restaurant, and they deliver for a fixed known fee (or more often free, above a normal order threshold of maybe $20 which would be $30-40 today). It would come directly from the restaurant, no petulant third party complaining about whether or not you tipped enough ahead of time of service to be worth treating you and your property with respect (ie nobody would eat your food if they didn’t like you).
It really was a fine state. I now appreciate that some places let you order online and then just pay normal prices when you pick it up. Great too. The centralized nature of door dash and GrubHub are a pain in the ass. First I have to poke through all of the adverts for McDonald’s and subway, then I have to figure out which restaurants are ripping me off with their online prices, deal with guessing which things have extra fees and which things have “waived” fees, use the mediocre UI that still friends on restaurants to do the hard work of adding pictured and sane descriptions (they usually don’t), and then guess how much tip will get my food delivered while it’s still warm by the “independent contractor” assigned my case. More middlemen means more people trying to sap you dry.