Summary
Key leaders of the “Abandon Harris” movement, which encouraged voters to oppose Kamala Harris due to U.S. support for Israel during the Gaza war, are now expressing unease about Trump’s incoming administration.
Many in the movement, including prominent Muslim leaders, voted for Trump hoping he would bring peace to the Middle East.
However, concerns are growing over his Cabinet picks, such as Mike Huckabee and Tulsi Gabbard, which some see as troubling for Muslim communities.
I cant agree. The utter lack of pressure on dem leadership to counterbalance AIPAC money is not how “democracy” is supposed to work, and by acting like we have no choice in these things we guarantee a continuance of that lack of choice forever. I’m not up for that.
Good chat, I dont think we are going to come together on this point, but I thank you for the civility and I hope we all come out of this somehow.
With respect to Israel? Sure.
With respect to international policy otherwise? No.
With respect to domestic policy? Hell no.
By focusing on one issue - a horrible issue, don’t get me wrong, but one this election wouldn’t influence - to the detriment of all others, you pretend that everything else doesn’t matter. Fuck transgender kids, fuck immigrants, fuck labor laws, fuck economic exploitation, fuck the Ukraine too while we’re at it, fuck everyone and everything, but at least you didn’t vote for one genocide supporter (but got the other, so you achieved nothing anyway and never were going to).
Instead of directing that frustration at a more precise channel like protests, pestering your representatives, more severe forms of activism specifically messaging your discontent about that one issue, you used the vaguest possible opportunity with the most side effects. The US democracy may be broken, mutilated and in dire need of a fundamental overhaul, but it still has some democratic elements. Pretending it doesn’t is disingenuous.
If that changed your view after all, then I’ll take back everything else I’m about to say, but if you genuinely think nothing but making a show of caring about Palestine matters, this is where my charity and civility ends.
You’re a transphobia, racism and christofascism enabler, and a hollow gesture of caring about Palestinian lives that was never going to do anything for those lives except put a bunch of other lives in jeopardy doesn’t weigh that up. In a word:
You’re a hypocrite.
Yes, yes, get it all out. There, there.
I dont vote for war criminals.
Its not required that you like it, but check your numbers-- if you want to ever win an election again you should understand it. I’ll never vote republican, but in extreme cases I wont vote dem either. Theres MANY dem voters like me. Your approval of this or your “charity” doesnt matter to me or anyone else on the left. Nor do I care about your accusations and childish name calling. My votes right here, come get it. or dont, and we can all suffer through trump and the next trump together.
You don’t vote against openly bigoted felons seeking to destroy what’s left of democracy either?
I’m not saving the democratic party from its own decline and corruption, no. And you shouldnt either, unless you’re into enablement of this going on within the party forever, or are into murderous warcrimes against innocents. I’m not going to play hostage games set up by centrist bastards. If they want to chart a course for just to the right of Trump, let them lose till they learn. If the cost of this political system existing is tens of thousands of dead innocents blown apart with our direct enablement, then something has to change.
Only Biden Harris could be indecent and stupid enough to LOSE to a collosally ridiculous and corrupt clown candidate like Trump. Youth, progressive, and muslim votes in key swing states were there for the taking, cheaply even.
If centrist dems cant be bothered to quite literally follow the law and the very basics of common decency, then the outcomes of a loss are on them-- not the people like me demanding they follow the law. If you think this sort of callous disregard for human life will stay on far flung shores, then you’re mistaken. Biden/Harris brought this war criminal bloodthirst to our shores and normalized ignoring innocents being murdered, on many fronts-- health care, gun control, police, and foreign policy-- and Bidens most recent thuggish innovation, supressing free political speech if it makes an Israel-supporter “uncomfortable”. But up till now it was fine to threaten a literal lynching to a black person if it could be proven to not be a credible threat. I call shenanigns. Until people draw a line around whats too evil to be allowed, let us all suffer trumpism together. The dems lost the plot a long time ago and dont deserve being blindly followed.
Funny story, I live next to a Japanese buddhist temple who shut down a feed the homeless group’s access to the church kitchen (to assemble and bag meals) because someone in that homeless advocacy group published something critical of the starvation of Palestinian civilians. The temple doesnt even accept any government money, and I’d be surprised if it interacted with Jewish donors in any way. Thats who Americans are now. We arent the land of the free or the brave, and we arent a shining city on a hill. Smell that thuggish repression? I bet you wont acknowledge it, but you know its there.
So you thought Trump was the better option.
ah yes, the old, “if you dont do exactly what I say the way I say it then you are basically voting for trump” game. Yeah I dont play those dumb centrist hostage games. Cute.
DNC idiots didnt have to set it up this way but they did. No anger for them eh? Just for the slaves who didnt mind the whip and support the genocide?
Tell. me, when Harris talked proudly about her glock did you go outside and shoot yours in the air? yeeehaw!!
Welcome to a world where FPTP has managed to create a binary choice, and one option is clearly worse. It’s not even “do what I say” or “voting for trump”, it’s failing to oppose him. Everyone that advocated against voting for Harris is complicit in the damage Trump will do that Harris wouldn’t have. Trans kids, abused spouses, victims of labour safety violations, all their blood will be on the hands of those that said “I don’t care”.
Like you.
So you’re going to let the hostages die? How noble and enlightened.
I didn’t set it up. I don’t agree with all of Harris’ views. But the General Election isn’t the place to make that point. Local elections, primaries, protests - great! But for all that it sucks, the General Election is a hostage situation. And unfortunately for the hostages, it’s not a “game”, it’s fucking life-or-death and you found “death” acceptable. Their death, namely.
I’ve been plenty angry at them, as I am at all enablers of this fucked-up dilemma. But I can be mad at multiple people for different reasons.
Right, and who was the anti-genocide candidate?
Oh right. Neither. Because this election wasn’t about supporting or opposing genocide.
It was about all the points in which Trump and Harris are different, all the things you don’t care about, those “hostages”, which you’ll gladly let die for the sake of feeling good about doing nothing.
You let people die in the name of pretending to save people. That’s the hypocrisy.