The phenomenon of sovereign citizens persistently trying to win court cases with their principles, despite a lack of success, is indeed puzzling. On YouTube alone, there are around 5,000 videos showing sovereign citizens facing defeat in the courtroom. These individuals often make claims that have yet to prove successful and frequently end up incarcerated.
Why do people continue to adopt this seemingly futile approach? It’s akin to watching 5,000 parachutists attempt a failed jump from the Eiffel Tower, only for newcomers to keep trying despite knowing, or perhaps ignoring, the inevitable outcome. Despite the growing pile of mangled bodies at the base of the tower, every day people decide to climb up and try for themselves.
The dedication of these individuals is noteworthy; they invest a great deal of time mastering the intricacies of their “sovereign” defense. Yet, it seems that they dedicate little time to researching previous legal outcomes or understanding why their arguments haven’t held up in court historically.
What drives this persistence? Is it a deep-seated belief system that overrides rational analysis, or is there another factor at play that encourages them to keep going despite overwhelming evidence of failure?
Yes, the argument failed in the past. But, on the other hand, I’m the main character, so when I do it things will be different.
Because they see other people gaming the system or somehow otherwise being protected from the consequences of their actions. Ethan Couch, who drove drunk underage and killed four people and fled the scene, and who got probation. Brock Turner who raped an unconscious woman, and who got stuff months in county jail and was released after three months. Matthew Broderick, who drove into the wrong lane, hit a car head-on, killed two people, and was fined a hundred pounds. Hundreds of cases, some high-profile, some only known to the local community, where people get off - sometimes on technicalities, sometimes on connections, sometimes on good lawyering, sometimes on bribes.
Then people wonder why they can’t get away with things. Millionaires and billionaires get their debts written off, so they should be able to do so as well. They should be able to claim that they’re not subject to laws just like those other people. So they start looking for things that might exempt them, patterns of how to get away with things. Every time something goes wrong, it’s not because they’re poor or unconnected, it must be because that other guy’s lawyer wrapped his case in a red ribbon, or capitalized the defendant’s name, or something else esoteric that they didn’t notice or didn’t think of.
And they talk to each other, sharing their theories of his to get away with things. And there’s also a rich ecosystem of fraudsters and conmen who are absolutely willing to take advantage of them, selling them false license plates and fake “passports”, selling handbooks and online courses on how to get away with stuff. If they’re caught (and haven’t just changed over to some other URL), it’s because the law changed or there was some nuance in their situation, and you just need this other thing that’ll fix it, it’s only $129.99, payable in four easy installments …
Because people are idiots
Sin is never a sufficient explanation for human behavior. Meaning anytime we think “it’s because they are bad”, we’re missing something big.
All behavior is an attempt to meet needs. Any correct explanation of behavior identifies the need and how the behavior is believed to meet it.
They may not be smart, on average as a group. But that’s not why they keep doing this.
I never said anything about sin. The whole concept of sin is religious bullshit anyway, of which the existence can be explained the same way as OP’s question. People are idiots. They either are incapable of thinking or unwilling to do so.
sin is religious bullshit anyway
Yep, that’s why I used the word.
Suggesting that “people are idiots” actually explains behavior is just like believing in sin - it’s just giving up on understanding reality. It makes as much sense as a right wing christian trying explain away their opponents as sinners.
You can be smart, but still be an idiot.
They keep doing this because there are scammers and grifters getting rich pushing this content to lots and lots and lots of people because of the view-based revenue they get from doing it and big tech’s algorithms reward it with more views and more success. And sometimes they also get rich taking some of those people’s money, specifically the dumb and desperate and paranoid delusional people who are terrified of “the man” and the government and think they have found the secret cheat code of avoiding government.
People do it because they’re dumb, but they’re dumb because it gets shown and promoted specifically to them over and over again because Google et al have gotten really good at identifying people susceptible to nonsense and constantly shoving things like this down their throats until their brains literally rot. As the saying goes, “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” And big tech keeps doing that, individually and specifically, to many people including children, possibly without even any particular intention to cause harm besides the idea that it will keep them watching even more videos and earning even more ad revenue. Even giving them the benefit of the doubt that they are not intentionally causing harm, their apathy and apologism for the harm they are causing is horrific and unforgivable and sovereign citizens are just one of many highly destructive content funnels that modern algorithms empirically promote.
Content discovery is utterly toxic and it is literally, not exaggerating at all, destroying civilization.
Being a conspiracy theorist by default requires ignoring evidence that goes against your claims, so it’s not that surprising really :3
Delusion
- They DO see people claiming success.
These include scammers, and suckers who don’t want to admit they’re wrong.
- Their sovcit actions DO occasionally lead to success.
The rare success isn’t due to it being valid, but rather because the officials don’t want to deal with a crazy person. For example police sometimes let sovcit people out of getting a ticket because sovcits can be dangerous wackos and the cop just doesn’t want to deal with them. Another example is sometimes a government clerk will actually file an actually useful form to do a thing even when the sovcit tries to file some crazy nonsense form.
Sovcits love to video every single interaction with the police. Certainly if they were having large amounts of tickets or infractions dismissed, they’d be #1 hits on YouTube. Yet, in every single video you can find, it’s a big loss for the sovcits.
They’d be the first one to advertise all these “wins” against “the system” but they have failed to appear… why is that?
I’ve done a search on this before and there’s plenty of stuff where cop organizations say sovcits can be armed and dangerous and it’s not worth it for them to engage the person
Again, there’d be loads of videos from the sovcits themselves “Watch me beat this ticket in 20 seconds!!” For people that love to film themselves, you think there’d be so many examples of people getting infractions dismissed if it is as common as you say.
I specifically said it was rare. And i would bet that if the cop is being filmed then they’d be much more likely to follow through on giving the ticket. And the avoidance can happen before there’s even a filmable interaction with the police, like the cop choosing not to pull over a car that has a sovcit fake license plate
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If they were reasonable or intelligent they wouldn’t be what they are in the first place.
They believe that the right amount of good spells recited in the correct order will grant them victory. Unfortunately they’ve studied a different magic book than most people, so their magic does not work on others.
Think of how stupid the average person is, then realize half of them are stupider than that. - Carlin
They do it for the same reason people buy lottery tickets, despite the horrible odds: blind hope.
Plus, you never have to admit you were wrong.
If you didn’t reason your way into a problem you aren’t likely to reason your way out of it
Because our president shows that once in 248 years, someone who continuously flouts the law somehow makes it into power, then changes everything to be in their favor, permanently.
https://youtu.be/OC375rujZhs but in bullshit legal magic mumbo jumbo form.
The dedication of these individuals is noteworthy… What drives this persistence? Is it a deep-seated belief system that overrides rational analysis
It’s a lovely little combo of desperation and digging themselves into a hole. Most of the elements of sovereign citizens come from people who are not in good situations, as outlined by the canadian court’s very thorough opinion (which has already been linked twice in this thread, so I won’t bother it again). Once you’re in it, the same situation occurs that you can see with people in cults, mlm companies, or ponzi schemes. Maybe if you keep going, and pushing through the pain right now, you’ll get that mythical payoff. The alternative is to face the fact that you’ve likely ruined your life, rendering impossible whatever you hoped to achieve in the legal system in the first place.
An interesting addendum to your question: this is not a exclusively US based phenomenon. In Germany there are the Reichsbürgers they have similar ideas.
They think legally the state has no claim to rule and most people just don’t know they still live in the German Reich still.
So they have their own king selling them passports and they have pretty aggressive group think to try and enforce their claims.
My wife’s dad is one of them. The main thing I recognize comes from a pathological need to know better than everybody else. It’s very tightly coupled to their sense of worth and identity. They are better than everybody else because they have seen the light.
Pretty culty behavior and just enough pseudo truth to keep simple minds saying “yeah there might be something there”. Like “vaccination causes autism, they just don’t want you to know”.
Makes a loser in societies eyes, but a superhuman in their eyes. And yes, they still run into a wall and just keep trying to adjust their angle to hit that sacred sweet spot. Because now they need to prove how they are better and as they already have sacrificed so much they can’t be wrong to continue. (Just like a gambler who already lost a lot.)
So it’s a few psychological dynamics that grip into each other like gears and that ratchet them ever so tightly to their belief until there is no turning back.
