My first months on Lemmy were spent on Lemmy.world, which was the biggest instance at the time. I had no experience with Hexbear because .world had defederated that instance. I sometimes saw it being described as a “tankie” instance, but it was nothing specific.
After I moved to .zip, I came across !games@hexbear.net, which seemed to be free from anything overtly political and reminded me of r/Gamingcirclejerk, so I subscribed to it and occasionally made comments related to gaming.
Today I made multiple comments to a post about an article on the STALKER game developers having removed the Soviet symbols and the Russian audio in the remastered edition of the game. I would argue that in the thread, there were no comments from me that could be construed by a reasonable person as defensive of Nazism, fascism, or even hinting at it. For example, in one of the comments, I linked a Ukrainian law that prohibits the use of Nazi symbols, though I highly advise looking through all my ten comments as to avoid any misunderstanding or false impressions.
Conversely, one comment posted by another user dismissed Holodomor as Nazi propaganda, which I reported, but a moderator of that community just ended up calling me out for that and taking no action, followed by them banning me.
The thread containing all of my untouched posts is still available via lemmy.zip. My comments are also available for viewing via my user page. They are not available on hexbear due to the ban.
This shit is much wider than just hexbear. The lemmy creator himself is leftist and has pro communist essays on his github
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/main/dessalines_marxism_study_plan.md
This is atrocious.
What’s atrocious about Leftist politics? I’m a Leftist and proud of it. I want free healthcare for everyone with guaranteed shelter and access to sustenance. How atrocious of me.
It’s more their support of authoritarian states and policies than the communist thought that I take issue with, personally.
Communism itself is broken as fuck and produces authoritarian governments at best, and totalitarian regimes at worst. All these states are universally impoverished and abusing basic human rights
All these states are universally impoverished and abusing basic human rights
As opposed to capitalist states, which are wealthy because a small handful of powerful people have extracted the value from everyone else, by abusing human rights.
Except for the states that voted out the socialist systems in favor of the capitalism and everyone ther now lives in wealth and prosperity unheard during socialism.
If you had to live in socialist or communist state you’d crawl back to the capitalism within months.
Honestly the actual socialist states, the Scandinavian ones. Tend to be some of the happiest and highest rated on the planet. Consistently even. Generally the authoritarian ones regardless of where they pretend to be economically are often the worst.
Honestly the actual socialist states, the Scandinavian ones
Dude, Scandinavian states aren’t socialist, they run on a capitalist economies. Who told you that they are? Where’s the source of these claims?
Technically we are both correct. But you’re still wrong. Not surprising since you cannot actually accurately describe what capitalism, socialism, or communism is.
i love ignoring the history of western colonialism to defend the ‘free market’!
its actually because We Liberals™ defend freedom that we are so rich!
capaitalism is a strawman invented by Marix. What those states are is liberal (not to be confused with what the media calls liberal today), which means they support freedoms “life, liberty, and property”. Capaitalism is not the defining feature it is a derived feature from freedom of property. Liberal states are capitalist in pursuit of their freedom journey. Communism only allows freedoms if they don’t conflict with their communism journey.
Despite your cliams, the average person in “capitalism” is much richer than in every other system.
How are anarchists and anarco-communist restrictive in freedoms?
Capitalism was initially called economic liberalism. They’re the same thing.Yes it is not the liberalism in popular Western use today. But its not a straw man.
Ah yes the wonderful “freedom of property”, which means “the freedom of megacorps to buy up all the property, and overcharge you exorbitant fees to rent because you have no other option than to be homeless”.
The capitalism endgame is that megacorps own everything, regular working class people own nothing.
Only the megacorps are actually free.
Blah blah, bad megacorps this, bad megacorps that… You know that cases of large corporations abusing power are exceptions and not indicative to the majority of the economy?
Dismissive of argument because he has no valid counterargument. Thanks for being such a textbook example of bad faith arguments online.
Did we just find the Blackrock CEO secret Lemmy account?
I once tried explaining to these people that capitalism is natural result of any framework that strongly supports private property and freedom, but it only triggers them into emotional or aggressive responses
It’s a fact that private ownership exists under Communism.
Except it doesn’t - communism postulates abolishment of money and private property
It only supports freedom from the government. It then leaves a power vacuum which is filled by the wealthiest individuals who exert their authority on everyone through the many companies they own or lobbyists they pay without any real checks on their power. Since it is much easier to gain more wealth if you already have some, that means eventually all wealth will end up accumulated in the hands of very few. At that point it will be indistinguishable from fueldalism.
I think communism could only ever work in a country that has a robust democracy rather than the dictatorships that tried it in the past. The problem is communism will usually devolve into dictatorship because whoever is in power will be able to use the communist system to never lose an election.
Communism will also never work because it has to compete with capitalism. Capitalism will always win because it doesn’t have the extra burden of taking care of the poor. Communism would never last unless every country in the world abandoned capitalism.
Pure communism or capitalism both have issues. The ideal system is somewhere in between. A flexible system that can be easily adjusted to match circumstances would be best. Democracy still needs to be held up as the most important aspect no matter the economic system.
No it isn’t.
You’re confusing ML’s who are authoritarian with non authoritarian ideology like marxists (minus the lenninism) or other forms of communism. Arguably ML’s are only communist in name. Similar to how the NDSP for the Nazi party was not a socialist party - they just picked up a false flag because it was popular. And that’s often the problem with western teaching on socialism and communism - there is a massive conflation with what it actually is and what malefactors (e.g. Lennin/Stalin or so many other dictatorship examples) have projected on to it.
High five. 🖐️ I’m glad to not be the one posting this again constantly. Between the two authoritarian groups propaganda. It’s basically impossible to have any sort of discussion about it sadly.
Yeah I feel like a broken record myself. It’s tough because there’s such a huge population of people who have been taught ‘communism = evil dictatorship’ and not think critically about any of it, read any of the literature, study the history of it, etc.
I could go on but I am sure you know already.
Yes the whole noun versus adjective thing. Communists aren’t communist. And their faces go blank as a dial tone plays in their head.
Not sure you know where you are but just bc we ain’t tankies doesn’t mean we bootlick capital over here lmao
And yet he created this platform for us to use…I don’t agree with a lot of his politics, but I respect what he is doing (until the day someone provably reports some sneaky backdoor, doxxing IPs, serving private data to hostile states, undermining dissenting instances or other things like that)
Hexbear tankies really are something incredible. I’ve been around left-wing politics most of my life and in the real world I’ve met like one or two people actually like them. Difficult to understand where they all came from. I’m thinking maybe it’s a r/Pyongyang where it started as a joke and then they started taking it seriously.
I’m thinking maybe it’s a r/Pyongyang where it started as a joke and then they started taking it seriously.
I know. The same thing happened with The_Donald. It started out as a meme space. It’s where Donnie as “The God Emperor” all started. But then people actually started taking it seriously.
So I guess we have Reddit to blame for the situation that America is in right now.
Thanks Reddit!
alot of cities, or regions were infiltrated by other right wingers, or tankies in the subreddits.
In the comments to their repost of my post here, they’re mocking my use of the word politics, but it’s all twisted like you described. On Gamingcirclejerk, it’s used satirically to mock bigots who say that people of color, trans people or women are political and thus unwanted in video games, but here in the Hexbear reading I’m suddenly the same as those people for not expecting a gaming community to be about the actual politics of authoritarian communism.
r/chapostraphouse, if that subreddit rings any bells. Lemmy was the place they came for refuge after getting nuked off of Reddit for brigading (shocking, I know).
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I think that the nature of the community has changed, whatever it was before certainly doesn’t reflect who they are now — aside from the brigading.
I wouldn’t be surprised if these aren’t real people or they are being manipulated by very effective propaganda the same way the qanon are.
If you look objectively, the various tankie movements are a net negative when it comes to promoting socialist ideologies. Its having an inverse effect of whatever they’re trying to accomplish.
They came from the response to rising right wing authoritarianism
No I do not condone or endorse tankies, just telling you why there are so many of them now
Reactionaries, in a nutshell
I dunno how much I buy that. America’s been going fasc for most of my adult life. Under Bush we had the patriot act, “enhanced interrogation,” “extraordinary rendition,” etc. Sure we didn’t have masked brownshirts pulling people off the streets (of America) yet but everyone could see where it was all going and people were incredibly upset.
The Putin and Xi-loving tankie seems to be an artifact of the internet. It’s the meme-internet trajectory of “haha” to “ha ha only serious” to “seriously.” It’s a way to revel in the base pleasures of the malevolent thug without having to be Pro-trump, Pro-America or Zionist.
I agree, most of the tankies we’re plagued with online simply don’t exist in irl leftist spaces, because no one likes them and most people in irl spaces understand that you don’t get to call yourself a leftist and support authoritarianism in the same sentence.
If a tankie ever went public in the Baltics countries and said that shit out loud they would immediately get a well deserved beating. From some perspectives they’re equivalent to nazi sympathizers because thats what they basically are.
I know. I was fuming watching some halfwitt useful idiot propagandist saying that the animosity many Polish people have for Rusisia is a product of propaganda and not, y’iknow, the USSR’s horrendous treatment of their country in the 20th century.
I think they’re just the people who’ve gorged themselves on the most propaganda
I call them the MAGA of the left, they hate it, but they’re just as big of zealots for their own beliefs as MAGA is, they defend tyrants who’s values appear to align with theirs on paper and don’t understand the concept of nuance.
They believe in only black and white and the idea that gray exists, and the thought they could be (are) morally gray, along side almost everyone else, is intolerable to them, they have to be “Good”, no shades of gray allowed and the way they prove it to themselves is by constant virtue signaling and purging to stay on top of the imagined “morally pure” pyramid they’ve convinced themselves exist - a lot of them are ableist and don’t consider disabled people in their grand schemes
Life is messy, people are imperfect, they’re almost never a completely correct option that serves everyone equally. They want logic, which is simply making something internally consistent, context is irrelevant, they do not want philosophy which strives to incorporate as much context as possible in order to come to a conclusion
It sounds like you finally learned about hexbear firsthand and don’t have to rely on others’ reports on their behavior.
And now you know why most instances have defeated from hexbear. It’s extremely toxic.
Agreed, though I’m still not sure I’d defederate even after this incident. It may be best that we inform people of what Hexbear stands for and let them decide.
If they want to guzzle auth propaganda they can get it from the tap and make a hexbear grad or ml account. The fact that you genuinely though a mod would do something about holodomor denial on hexbear shows you don’t fully understand what they’re about and why numerous instances already defederated ages ago.
Yeah, in my mind, Holodomor is not a gray area at all, even though I’ve seen my share of pro-Putin people from the West. One of the first encounters I remember was back on Diaspora. Funnily in relation to this ban, I’ve done a lot of research into neo-Nazism, but probably not enough into those Hexbear type views.
Even the Wikipedia page is unsure, how are you so sure?
Wikipedia is not uniform. An article is as good as the active users behind it and the sources that support the claims. Still, on its actual page on whether Holodomor is a genocide, the summary is that it was real and had millions of victims, that most scholars at least hold Stalin responsible for it, that the EU and 34 other countries have recognized it as a genocide, and that even the person who coined the term “genocide” is of the same opinion. Simply put, it feels as though Wikipedia is trying to play two sides without really committing or succeeding in being convincing about it not being more or less clearcut
Just lurk more political comms there (and grad) and you’ll get an idea pretty quickly.
Nah, it’s pretty simple, America bad, tell me what else to repeat, RT!
I think one encounter with hexbear is going to inform most users better than any third-party warning.
We’re witnessing the results of a first proper encounter here, in fact.
Incidents like that were not why they were defederated. Those were just the cherry on top. They were defederated because they would organize brigading on communities they had no direct control over. Ie couldn’t just ban you as they did. For going against dogma. Grad was similar.
The main reason .ml is still federated is because they don’t generally brigade. Despite having the same broken dogma. So it’s sufficient to let people interact with them and learn as they recoil from being struck. When the vanguard strikes back against facts and reality. There’s a very good chance you would get the same treatment there if you were to pierce the groupthink.
By the way, where would Andrew Eldritch stand on this issue? He’s certainly in the know.
My nome de plume is more lovecraftian. As a child of the 70s and 80s as well as a goth. I certainly know the name. To be honest apart from generally having a leftward lean having come from the punk postpunk scenes. I really couldn’t tell you much about his particular politics. I generally don’t look to musicians for politics. They are just people like the rest of us . Far more often than one would like only disappointment is found. Other than that, Beyond him being musically inspired the only things I can really say about him. Mostly stemming from is history with Wayne and Patricia. Is that he is stubborn, a bit dickish, but dedicated.
I generally don’t look to musicians for politics. They are just people like the rest of us . Far more often than one would like only disappointment is found.
Relatable! Though when it comes to Eldritch, it’s hard not to think politics with song titles like Mother Russia and lyrics about “another motherfucker in a motorcade” or “I tried to tell her about Marx and Engels, God and angels. I don’t really know what for”. And that makes me genuinely wonder if he’s as far gone as Hexbear or if he’s the more reasonable type (like you seem to be).
Anything is Possible, especially given his tenacity and willingness to dig in. Conversely John Lydon went from antichrist, anarchîst, with a tongue in cheek good save the Queen. To all hail good emperor trump.
Ouch.
After reviewing the thread, it looks like you reported a comment that was just contradicting you.
Yes, they assumed the community wasn’t ML and that anything genocide was grounds for comment removal
They themselves mentioned holodomor, no idea why though
Probably wouldn’t have been banned if they argued instead of reporting
Ukrainians have the same problem with neo-Nazis as other ex-Soviet countries.
Holodomor is a bit of a fuzzy matter, it’s picking a part of the more wide scale events relating to Ukraine and calling it genocide of Ukrainian people, while genocide involves intention to wipe out an ethnic group.
This was more of Stalin’s USSR treating people as expendable and hunger as acceptable when he needed the resources to build heavy industries for the military. Most of the grain producing areas of the USSR were in Ukraine and south of Russia, which is also where most of the victims were, because grain was taken by force according to planned norm and to fake reports (as it happens in such systems, administrators overreporting gains and underreporting losses).
So I somewhat feel strange when people talk of it like genocide example, but people arguing against that are usually worse, so let it be.
Anyway, the point of this comment was - those people don’t even think of such things, they act purely on vibes. Most of Soviet propaganda was intended for people literate in the first-second generation, it relied on vibes even more than, say, Nazi German propaganda or Western propaganda of that time and of our time. That allows it to work on people very far from Soviet reality or knowledge of USSR’s history. (Of course, there were more intelligent levels of Soviet propaganda, they seem almost fully forgotten, include marxist dialectics, optimism of the future, dreams of a united peaceful planet of intelligent people using their lives for learning and creation, and no war and violence. Would be weird to expect tankies to be familiar with anything of that.)
You can’t reason with people acting on vibes. Your comments’ vibes for them are predefined, you don’t affect them.
What do you mean by vibes exactly?
Music, art style, socrealism in portraits. Soviet architecture (the monumental and decorative kind). All that.
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Eh, well, I’m not a communist, actually I lean to the ancap side, but you also don’t know much about communism.
Living in the USSR wasn’t nice, but it was a kinda functioning state and society. Less evil than today’s Russia, and led by less evil people. And it was an honest attempt at building something good, that failed due to architectural faults and deadlocks eventually.
There’s a difference between intentional evil and evil by mistake. USSR’s the latter, today’s Russia’s the former.
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The whole fucking point is that this wasn’t
that specific group of people
, it was much bigger in scale. Before thinking you’re being ironic or calling others names you might want to check such things.
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take over large parts of europe and replace their populations with russians
I’d need sources for something like that. There’s one “large part of Europe”, namely a piece of East Prussia now called Kaliningrad Oblast, where that happened.
The rest of East Prussia was ethnically cleansed in favor of Lithuanians and Poles. Both nations don’t seem eager to fix that, and you don’t seem eager to mention that.
And other areas were ethnically cleansed of Germans, Hungarians in favor of Poles, Czechs, Romanians.
There was also a mutual “population exchange” between Western Ukraine and Poland, where Poles were resettled from Ukraine to western areas of Poland cleansed from Germans, and Ukrainians from Poland were resettled to Ukraine. Ethnic cleansing as well.
Except for the first and the last things mentioned, those weren’t initiated by the USSR. Like the name “Benes decrees” kinda hints, being literally connected to Czechoslovakia, but in fact sometimes used for all of those crimes in Eastern Europe after the war.
Commies are literally palette swapped nazis.
No. In the USSR itself after Stalin they loved to low-key compare Stalin’s USSR to Nazi Germany, doesn’t make it true.
The kind of people who’d want Stalin back were a rarity, it seems, in the USSR itself after his death, unlike now in Russia. It was common knowledge, confirmed by party assemblies and many people being let out of prisons and rehabilitated, that repressions happened and were terrible, and that they shouldn’t happen again. It was also common knowledge, confirmed by official ideology as if that were needed, that war is terrible and no sane person wants war, and starting a war is unthinkable.
And even Stalin’s USSR wasn’t as similar to Nazi Germany as you think.
After Stalin it was the same leftist ideology, about workers having jobs and food on table, peaceful united humanity reaching for the stars, civilization and knowledge. Just with a memory of trauma and a belief in planning and centralism.
During Stalin it was about heroics and sacrifices made to have the same somewhere in far future, but that first a powerful socialist state should be built to demonstrate the advantages of socialism, and for that a lot of things could be considered necessary.
Before Stalin it was the same leftist ideology with too much trust into its success.
Sacrifices and heroics are typical for fascism, but not similar otherwise at all.
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You hear the sound of your own brain asking for fuel to actually function.
Probably fits on: !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works
What do you expect, it’s HexBear. They make ML look like neoliberals.
I align more closely with hexbear politics than almost all non-hexbear users. IMO, their politics is not the problem – they’re just an astoundingly toxic community.
I agree, and both their problematic hot takes and their toxicity are well-represented in OP’s link.
Elaborate!
I don’t really know how to do that other than to dig through replies from hexbear users pointing out how much vitriol they use. But in general, there’s a lot of name-calling (e.g. since you disagree with me, you must be a “white cracker,” “minstrel,” etc. – wtf kind of problem these guys have with minstrels I don’t understand); a lot of posting of flippant reaction images instead of actual responses, and so on. They’re clearly very angry about politics, which I get, but also have no interest in actually debating politics with any level of subtlety; even when I agree with someone in broad strokes but disagree about a particular item because I think it’s counter-productive to their own cause, I just get harshly told off. As a result, I can only assume they imagine everyone else is disingenuous.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minstrel_show
That’s a pretty unhinged insult tbh.
Oh I see, didn’t realize this is what it was. Honestly that’s so much worse than what I was thinking.
The term by itself goes back further than that, and doesn’t mean that originally. So it’s very “clever” of them to appropriate the term in this particular context.
Every time I think of how fucked up things are now, I am glad we at least made some progress. Although recently, things seem to progress backwards with all the shit going on.
Yeah, they’re the worst part of the worst periods of 4chan. I don’t think that’s where most of them come from, but it’s the same type of people.
The fact that they always support authoritarianism is just the cherry on top that makes them totally unreasonable.
Funny, I would’ve thought “the worst part of the worst periods of 4chan” would be all the bigotry, racism, transphobia, and that sort of thing.
It is at least bigotry.
Bigotry gets you banned from Hexbear fast.
Unless you wanna play the, “Saying Palestinians should have rights is antisemitic” card or something similar.
Ah yeah, even in that thread, there were people responding with images or immediately labeling me a liberal without explaining or knowing anything about my views except that I seemingly sided with Ukraine. One person was very angry and needlessly escalatory with their “go fuck yourself”. Another felt the need to comment on my post history and try to use me running an Epic Games community against me. There’s a lot of ad hominem and straw man type arguments, which is usually indicative of not having strong counterarguments on the main subject itself.
I get the same shit on world or other super lib instances claiming I’m a Tankie or fascist apologist or what the fuck ever if I at all question the msm narrative, point out democratic failings, etc.
There’s a lot of ad hominem and straw man type arguments, which is usually indicative of not having strong counterarguments on the main subject itself.
That’s every internet discussion. You skipped over the constructive arguments and effortposts, didn’t address any of their valid criticism, and focused solely on the shitposts. If you’re not engaging in constructive discussion, mods can remove you at their discretion.
Are you serious? If anything, I ignored the angry comment, the low effort image comments, and the one outright denying the mass killing of millions of Ukrainians (which was my reason for reporting it), but I engaged at length with the people who were making more or less proper arguments. I could have engaged with the top one about Ukrainians praising Bandera and remind the person that they should have a perfect understanding of how that works, given that tankies (which was that user’s self-description) too praise the adversaries of their countries despite Stalin and Putin’s track records making Bandera’s pale in comparison, but I thought that would be way too triggering, so I didn’t post that draft.
No, that’s not it. I am not denying that there is constructive and high-effort activity on the instance. But the moment-to-moment conversation is superlatively hostile, (at least when I show up lol), and I’m making pretty tame comments – it’s not because of me. I don’t anywhere near that amount of venom in other instances.
Start making leftist (i.e. anti transphobia, pro worker, pro environment etc) comments on .world or .shit and you’ll experience a lot more vitriol. At least that’s been my experience and the reason I stay away from these cesspools.
Yeah that’s basically my feelings too. I wonder why they are so defensive. (edit: /gen)
I don’t know if this is sarcasm. If it isn’t, it’s because they’re supposedly leftists, but they have also been told they need to support authoritarian regimes who often harm people they’re supposed to want to help, especially Russia invading another much smaller nation (and fighting them poorly). They can’t reconcile these two beliefs, so instead they can only attack others.
That’s the honey trap.
They appear to be a progressive left wing community- very supportive of socialism, trans rights, big fat queer comm…then you interact and find out these are all just populist shoes they like to wear for kicking the shit out of people
…but tankies are fascists.
The “red” part of “red fascist” is a fairly important distinction so you don’t give libertarians free ammo in their rhetorical war to claim all fascists are socialists.
Oh, I one up them by self identifying as a socialist libertarian.
Before they know what hit them I’ve already explained why pretty much all constitutions need a rewrite to be understood by the common man, why energy companies and hospitals should be cooperatives with stock ownership divvied up to the local populace and why Montesquieu’s decentralization principle should apply to both law, capital and that it hasn’t gone far enough for military or police.
I destroy their tiny little minds and they don’t know what to do with themselves. Seize the means of capital, my brother. Usurp the system from the inside.
yeah duh, thats why we block the redfash triad
Honestly the entirety of Lemmy is far left so for them anything not far left is nazi. If you’re not far left, switch to a different platform or don’t talk about anything even remotely connected to politics.
I agree with your point that “the ideas furthest from you politically all look alike” (aka political myopia), that’s why fascists think everyone left of an ultraneoliberal is a “dirty commie” and why tankies think everyone right of liberal socialists are nazis (no, I’m not one of those who say elon is not a nazi, he is, but for his own actions, lol). It’s just terrifying when you see a friend of yours imbibe that bullshit and suddenly call everyone they don’t like (including FDR) a commie…are they fascist now? :/
It’s just terrifying when you see a friend of yours imbibe that bullshit and suddenly call everyone they don’t like a commie…are they fascist now?
Nah it’s just far right and far left movements are similar. They do the same things to those with a different opinion. What makes leftists way more successful is their disguise. They claim to support very nice things and people believe them. But ultimately both of them want a dictatorship of their opinion. After all they’re on the ends of the political spectrum for a reason.
I don’t know yet, I’ve seen democratic communists, like Lula, who are a bit daft sometimes (e.g. meeting putin wearing his little St. George ribbon, somebody slap him 😠💢 , hard), but who truly believe in welfare, nonviolence, human rights and democracy. I even understand that he is unnerved and aggrieved by bozo’s foreign-backed efforts to destroy Brazil, but he’s also making strange bedfellows.
But I’ve never seen a democratic/“cuddly” fascist that doesn’t eventually take their mask off and the whip out…maybe Meloni so far (I don’t understand italian politics enough to get what damage she’s done) or maybe peronismo…
Well afaik far right movements are supposed to be aggressive. That’s a part of their views.
Non aggressive leftists may exist but from my experience most of them are either aggressive or look nice only on the outside and are easy to make show their true personality. I guess that’s the kind of leftism that’s by far the most popular now.
Fuck that, I will gladly use Lemmy to tell tankies to fuck off. And if I get banned on some instances then so be it.
That’s my man.
The entirety of Lemmy far left? You must be an American. .world is blatantly majority centre-left.
Well in “far left” I mean “aggressively behaving left”. I’m not really up to date with the classification.
I’m not really up to date with the classification.
That’s actually not a bad sign. The whole ‘left’-‘right’ classification is vibes nonsense which changes wildly between countries and eras, and was never a useful classification to begin with. We wouldn’t be using those two words if there were actual concrete ideas they represented.
Further summary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nPVkpWMH9k
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Tankies are primarily authoritarians, not really far left in any useful sense of that term. And even though they are vocal, they definitely don’t constitute “the entirety of Lemmy”.
I’m not very sure about that. I don’t get banned on literally every community for being right wing (even when I talk about it) but I do feel hostility coming from everyone. I understand that their opinion is way different to mine but if they act passively/actively aggressive towards other opinions (not just me), doesn’t it make them tankies automatically?
I don’t get banned on literally every community for being right wing
You do know where you are, right? Did you get lost?
I always thought tankies are mostly stalinists and nostalgic brezhnevists, a violent and fanatic type of marxist-leninist who will crush anyone and anything to establish their utopia. They don’t argue much, it’s just aesthetics, violence and rhetoric, they are essentially red fascists. Most communists I know (which includes leninists, but not only) are mostly pacifist…but they will quickly turn authoritarian to tamp down any fascists and rich people who get a little too uppity, so yea, naturally, rule of law and property rights are secondary to them.
rule of law and property rights are secondary to them.
‘Secondary’ is being generous. They’d likely see them purely through a pragmatic lens instead of seeing them as legitimate concepts.
The core point of socialism is to eliminate private property altogether (not to be confused with personal property!), and socialist theory considers the current laws to be effectively dictated by the owning class through systemic influence over politicians, judges, mass media and other systematic pressures, rather than rules proposed or ratified by people like you and me, or for the benefit of people like us. So it makes sense for them to see rule of law as illegitimate, as a tool for the bourgeois class to maintain their dominance over the working class.
Yea, but I was thinking of socialism in practice e.g. China has private property…it’s just that it’s not an absolute right, it is secondary to some other interests i.e. the state/workers/etc look at what they did do Jack Ma when he started getting too elon musky for their liking.
Ah, I see, yeah I was just talking about theory and ideology, the behaviour of activists rather than governments, which can be much simpler.
I’d assume a tankie perspective (based on my understanding of historical Lenin/Bolshevik perspectives, plus the event that the name ‘tankie’ came from) is that their government/party represents the worker class, and that when push comes to shove, the most important thing is to maintain the revolution and avoid capitalist counterrevolution, so if that ultimately demands sacrificing rule of law, property rights, liberties and even suspending democracy, they would insist the ends justify those means. Their view is that there’s no point in pursuing ideals like property rights and rule of law if that means the government falls and those rights collapse anyway. So they justify pragmatic compromise. And what happened to Jack Ma is an example, they’d rather remove Ma’s rights than permit that amount of capitalist power.
Getting banned from hexbear is your initiation into the broader world of lemmy. It happens to everyone who isn’t a tankie at some point. Wear it with pride
It’s easy to get banned on that instance if you’re not sticking to the facts. They’re quite sensitive in this matter. Holodomor is Nazi propaganda tho.
Last time I checked, to be classified as a “Nazi” you had to persecute other cultures and ethnicities , and engage in imperialistic, criminal invasions of your neighbours.
Sounds an awful lot like russia and its supporters to me!
The Holodomor is a well-documented historical fact, recognised by numerous scholars and parliaments worldwide as a deliberate act of genocide against the Ukrainian people.
If you deny it just like that, guess who has just failed spectacularly at… “sticking to the facts”? 🤥
You are literally a nazi sympathizer.
After seeing the effort you put into things that don’t matter, I’m going to take this opportunity to not do so again.
I mean, their name and description say it all. They appear to fuse two rather telling themes:
1- “Hex” : as in the fraudulent cryptocurrency scheme launched by Richard Heart (real name: Richard James Schueler), a notorious spammer and lawbreaker who ultimately faced the consequences of his actions.
2- A shameful endorsement of communist-style authoritarianism : essentially, a system that violates basic human rights while promoting a fully centralised, stagnant, and corrupt regime devoid of meaningful technological progress.
Frankly, if I got banned from a place like that, I’d wear it as a badge of honour, LoL ❗😂
