• Pogogunner@sopuli.xyz
    823·
    6 months ago

    I have a pitbull (American pitbull terrier) that is a rescue. He loves people, but is so aggressive towards other animals that I can hardly believe it.

    After having one for years now, I believe there should be some sort of training or licensing requirement before someone can own one. The combination of innate aggression and power is truly dangerous

    I can never walk my dog off-leash, I can never hand my dog to someone inexperienced. I love my dog, but responsible ownership is much more burdensome than any other dog I’ve had.

    • Maalus@lemmy.world
      384·
      6 months ago

      Sadly the remaining 95% owners of pitbulls “love them so much” they’d start literal riots if that becomes law. Because you know they wouldn’t be able to pass the training, or even sit through it.

      • Pogogunner@sopuli.xyz
        171·
        6 months ago

        I don’t think they would riot, they would probably just get pitbulls from breeders that didn’t check for licenses.

        But I agree with the gist, there are a lot of bad dog parents, and people get pitbulls for bad reasons. I want there to be an avenue to punish owners & breeders who do not take proper precautions.

    • superglue@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      51·
      6 months ago

      Yep, adopted a pit bull several years back and had to re-home it after it attacked my border collie twice and if I wasn’t nearby he would have killed her.

      Got him as a puppy, raised him the exact same way we did the collie. He would just…snap randomly and go into attack mode. I also couldn’t believe it. He was great with people though. Other pets and animals was a totally different story.

    • knowthyself@lemmy.wtfEnglish
      14·
      6 months ago

      I can totally confirm with my own experience with our rescue pit as well. He’s a good dog in the house and with our family, but he’s triggered so easily when out in our fenced yard by any other dogs out for a walk. Years ago we made so many attempts to acclimate him to other dogs through training, etc. and nothing worked. We can’t even walk him on a leash because he pulls so hard and chokes himself no matter what we do. But he’s happy to be a house/yard dog and feel like we’ve given him a good life.

      • Pogogunner@sopuli.xyz
        1·
        6 months ago

        I assume you would mean that there would be like tiers of license for more normal pets, and then a stricter license for Pitbulls or Mastiffs or whatever. What sort of competence do you want people to demonstrate before getting a pet like a Cat or Golden Retriever?

  • recall519@lemm.eeEnglish
    26·
    6 months ago

    Even if this were true, it’s not just the aggression. It’s also the biting power. At the end of the day, I could stomp a Chihuahua, but I get scared when my own 90lb German Shepherd comes running towards me because he is terrible at slowing down.

    • Cid Vicious@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      10·
      6 months ago

      Yeah, we can breed dogs however we want to, so why not breed dogs that are less dangerous? Not to mention less prone to health issues just because we think they’re cute when they have a nose so small that they can barely breathe. Dogs breeds aren’t sacred, most of them are a very recent phenomenon. Breed for positive traits, both for them and us.

      • sandwich.make(bathing_in_bismuth)@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        2·
        6 months ago

        There already are my dude. Plenty of dog breeds that are just what I like in a dog; goofy, lovely, loyal but not territorial/protective and nothing that could seriously hurt anyone. The other characteristics comes down to subjective preferred traits and, for example, whether you’re a first time owner or experienced with raising and socialising dogs.

        But you can’t ignore instinct. And some have instinct that’s just not compatible with your personal live. Ie. don’t get a shepherd if you live in an apartment in a city.

        And some have instinct that is not compatible to keep as pets.

  • joel_feila@lemmy.world
    610·
    6 months ago

    Fun fact about dog bite studies. People go to the hospital and just say “a pitbull bite me”. The doctors write that down and can’t really do anything else to verify. Then those medical reports are used in studies about dog bites and dog attacks. Meaning we have ne reliable data on dog breeds and attacks.

      • suburban_hillbilly@lemmy.mlEnglish
        2·
        6 months ago

        You think doctors and nurses are out running around neighborhoods tracking down dogs? Or do you think people bring the dog with them, like venomous snakes in a movie?

        If there’s a designated agency that reliably tracks dog bite statistics with breed data, link it. Send it to the AVMA too because they also say there are no reliable breed based bite statistics.

        • whoisearth@lemmy.ca
          11·
          6 months ago

          They provide no sources to back up the following which is contrary to the statistics provided by pretty much every other journalistic source.

          It is not possible to calculate a bite rate for a breed or to compare rates between breeds because the data reported is often unreliable. This is because:

          The breed of a biting dog is often not known or is reported inaccurately.
The actual number of bites that occur in a community is not known, especially if they don't result in serious injury.
The number of dogs of a particular breed or combination of breeds in a community is not known because it is rare for all dogs in a community to be licensed.
Statistics often do not consider multiple incidents caused by a single animal.
Breed popularity changes over time, making comparison of breed-specific bite rates unreliable. However a review of the research that attempts to quantify the relation between breed and bite risk finds the connection to be weak or absent, while responsible ownership variables such as socialization, neutering and proper containment of dogs are much more strongly indicated as important risk factors.
          • suburban_hillbilly@lemmy.mlEnglish
            2·
            6 months ago

            The part you quoted literally contains a link to a review which examines the evidence available for the relationship between breed and bite risk, you absolute spoon.

  • HerbSolo@lemmy.world
    182·
    6 months ago

    My neighbours had a small hunting terrier when i was a kid, forgot the name of the breed. Fucking asshole dog tried to bite me every time she saw me although i went in and out there every day. Also she killed everything that moved, cats, birds, hedgehogs, …

    Neighbour was a hunter and those fuckers were bred to follow badgers into their sett and kill them. Badgers can be quite nasty themselves so most animals stay away, but not this breed. Only chance the badger has is to kill the dog, even if half of its nose is bitten off, it doesn’t give a shit.

    So I’m a bit sceptical about the whole “aggression is not bred” theory.

    • Jax@sh.itjust.works
      65·
      6 months ago

      Bred for the size, trained for the aggression. I’ve seen typically passive breeds be overly aggressive in exactly the way that the breed is known for not being.

      They’re animals.

      • IMongoose@lemmy.world
        233·
        6 months ago

        Have you ever seen a puppy of a working dog? Pointers will point. The training they receive is what to point, not how. Retrievers will retrieve, herders will herd, trackers will track. But when someone suggests that a dog that has been specifically bred to fight and kill, oh, they were just trained that way. No, they have been specifically selected for aggression and prey drive. It is at best naive and at worst deadly to think that a working dog comes as a blank slate and will only perform actions it has been trained on.

        • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
          317·
          6 months ago

          Have you ever seen a puppy of a working dog? Pointers will point. The training they receive is what to point, not how. Retrievers will retrieve, herders will herd, trackers will track.

          That’s not how genetics works my guy. None of those things are heritable traits. Being smart, being trainable, those are traits that puppies can inherit. Being a good tracker isn’t. That’s learned behavior. If you’ve seen puppies pointing, retrieving, herding, or tracking, it’s because they learned it from some other dog, animal, or human.

          • acchariya@lemmy.world
            51·
            6 months ago

            So the owners of retrievers what, subconsciously all train them to retrieve because they knew the breed?

          • Wilco@lemm.eeEnglish
            91·
            6 months ago

            This is EXACTLY how genetics works. Research the Belyaev’s domestic fox program. It took about 4 generations of choosing the calmest and friendliest to make a domestic fix on par with our domestic dog breeds.

            This is what dog breeding is. Breeding to get a specific dog behaviour was literally 90% of dog breeding … before the weird cosmetic trend started.

      • HerbSolo@lemmy.world
        10·
        6 months ago

        If you’re suggesting my neighbours trained her to be aggressive - they didn’t - it was their family dog, they did the standard obedience training (sit, stay…) but no protection training. All their other dogs (german shepherds) were friendly.

        • Jax@sh.itjust.works
          13·
          6 months ago

          Do you know how they treated their dogs? I’m not insinuating anything, I’ve just never dealt with a dog that becomes aggressive and I’ve owned both rotties and pitties.

          • HerbSolo@lemmy.world
            1·
            6 months ago

            Well I didn’t watch them 24/7 if that’s the burden of proof now. I guess they treated all their dogs roughly the same though and for some reason the one whose breeding description essentially reads " Psychotic mauler of all that breathes" behaved accordingly.

  • Honytawk@lemmy.zipEnglish
    41·
    6 months ago

    In a hypothetical situation where every dog breed is banned except for Chihuahuas, would the amount of deadly dog attacks be:

    • More
    • Less
    • Equal

    If dog breeds weren’t a factor, the correct answer could only be “equal”. But nobody in their right mind would make that claim.

    Thus breed is a factor.

    • Robust Mirror@aussie.zone
      1·
      6 months ago

      No because you’re no longer basing it on tendency to be aggressive but ability to do damage. These are 2 very different things.

  • Auli@lemmy.caEnglish
    281·
    6 months ago

    Bullshit if dogs can be breed to do certain stuff they can be breed for aggression. Like pitbulls literally where. My dog herds never been trained or anything but instinctively does it.

    And yes lots of small dogs are assholes because of their owners but if they attack nothing bad happens.

  • Gerudo@lemm.ee
    554·
    6 months ago

    As someone who has raised and fostered dozens of dogs over the years, actual Pitbull breeds DO tend to have problems with aggression. I had one Pit rescue that absolutely loved people, dogs, and cats, and for a couple of years, it was one of the best dogs I had taken in. Until one day he wasn’t, he snapped and almost killed another foster we had.

    I have had about a dozen or so mixed bully breeds and breeds like American Bulldogs, and not a single one ever gave me a moments hesitation. There absolutely is something in the full blood Pit breed that is an issue. I honestly believe we could breed aggression out of the breed, but it would more than likely just need to end up a bully mutt breed instead.

    • Doxatek@mander.xyz
      13·
      6 months ago

      If you bred it out of them people wouldn’t want them anymore. A lot of people want a big scary dog to protect their kids and them and stuff. But it’s the same as a gun which statistically mostly kills the owners lol

  • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
    331·
    6 months ago

    I have nothing but hate for people that breed problem dogs. Not just talking aggression. But a lot of races have very known medical problems.

    Small short dogs very often get back problems. E.g. Corgis, yes they look cute. But very soon they will live in a world of chronic pain. That’s not cool.

    Don’t even get me started on pugs or Chihuahuas…

    • ZoopZeZoop@lemmy.world
      6·
      6 months ago

      Or Frenchies. I briefly wanted one until I considered having to watch it struggle and suffer across its life.

    • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.caEnglish
      1·
      6 months ago

      The animals we create are ALL entitled to the exact same unconditional love and protection as our own children. The hatred you feel over a pet being bred with a shortened lifespan or discomfort should be virtually imperceptible next to your rage towards those who farm and consume pigs, cattle & dairy, chickens & eggs, sheep & wool, turkeys, fish, and other vulnerable individuals.

      • Atomic@sh.itjust.works
        1·
        6 months ago

        No. I will continue to be more upset over the animals we breed and keep in chronic, prolonged pain over the span of 12-15 years for no other reason than our own entertainment. Than I am over animals we raised for slaughter.

        That doesn’t mean i think cattle should be kept in deplorable conditions or be exposed to unnecessary stress.

        • Jerkface (any/all)@lemmy.caEnglish
          1·
          6 months ago

          What is your rationale? Are you saying that it would be better for those pets if we slaughered them after only a fraction of their natural lifespan (like the animals you have no such sympathy for) so they never encounter their genetic limitations?!

          Chickens suffer the same sort of negative consequences of overbreeding, but to a degree orders of magnitude more severe. Why is it worse that a pug cannot breathe than that a chicken’s bones cannot even support its own weight?

          I suspect that the relevant difference is that you abuse chickens and wish to continue abusing vulnerable individuals who are chickens, but you’ve made the decision to stop abusing pugs, and so feel free to be critical about their treatment. Not to be unkind to you; that is just basic human nature.