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This is a truly WTF moment about messed up responses to X11 session removal in Gnome.

2 weeks ago I published a blogpost about the upcoming plans of GNOME 49 and the eventual removal of the X11 session. Since then, instead of looking at feedback, bugs and issues related to the topic, we all collectively had to deal with the following, and I am not exaggerating one bit:

  • Fascists and Nazis
  • Wild Conspiracy Theories that make Qanon jealous
  • “Concerned” Trolling about the Accessibility of the Wayland session
  • A culture war where Wayland is Gay, and X11 is the glorious past they stole from you

In my wildest dreams I could have never made this shit up. You all need mandatory supervised access to the Internet from now on.

  • trevor (he/they)@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    1196·
    6 months ago

    This probably has a lot to do with the new DOA XServer fork being “anti-DEI” (pro-discrimination). When these slimy shitweasels go out and vice signal about how bigoted they are, they congregate around it and form a new harassment campagin because they have no life.

    Sorry you’re getting harassed. I hope you can take solace in the fact that these little pissbabies lead miserable lives.

  • U@piefed.socialaragonés
    73·
    6 months ago

    I made peace with this forced transition. I went from using one of the available standards (X11) to retrocomputing (X11).

    I tried Wayland and what a mess… But I get it. Everything changes, and tech moves on.

    As for me and my needs, as long as X11 does its job, I’ll keep on using it.

    I’ve followed some of the discussions around the need to have a more modern framework for current graphical systems. I’m pretty confident devs have their hearts and minds in the right place. It’s just that Wayland doesn’t work for me.

      • andyburke@fedia.io
        8·
        6 months ago

        Same. Would be curious to know what problems this has caused any actual normal users (not weirdo fascist tech bros).

        • chunes@lemmy.world
          4·
          6 months ago

          In Ubuntu, Wayland causes my mouse cursor to freeze for about 1 second periodically. Doesn’t do that in X11. I’m not about to spend who-knows-how-long troubleshooting this when I can just not use it.

        • mholiv@lemmy.world
          103·
          6 months ago

          They probably won’t get specific.

          But I will say that the comment here is a quintessential example of an anti Wayland/SystemD complaint.

          Nothing specific ever. Just “it’s a mess and buggy and slow”.

          This being said by me making this comment the original poster might come up with the some specifics just because they feel called out.

      • HER0@beehaw.org
        2·
        6 months ago

        Personally, the main thing keeping me on Xorg is support for global keybinds. Plasma and GNOME both have support for the XDG portal which mostly addresses this, but apps still needs to adopt it. Plasma also has a workaround for global keybindings, but I don’t use that. Sway doesn’t have any good solutions for this last time I checked.

        Overall, I like Wayland more but I need support for global keybindings for at least a couple programs I regularly use.

        • U@piefed.socialaragonés
          1·
          6 months ago

          Same.

          I’m solely usually keyboard, activating the windows I’m constantly using through shortcuts. Not having them is a big no no.

          I also need to record live streams on OBS, and last time I tried the target windows couldn’t be detected.

          Also, I rely on many small X programs thenhanc little things that, together, are all part of my workflow. Most of them are not available on Wayland, and those that are are crippled due to Wayland’s limitations.

          Ultimately, these discussions are pointless. Some Waylanders don’t understand there’s more to computer use than just running the latest hardware/software. Ideally, both protocols would coexist, allowing a broader range of choice. But X11ers in return being offensive to Waylanders is not admissable.

  • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
    19·
    6 months ago

    If only this wonderful opinion were published someplace else than blogs.gnome.org and by someone who’s not a GNOME developer who are expected to lie by now.

    X11 is not glorious past, it just makes sense.

    Of course, when you freeze it in a certain state, only doing bug fixes, you can’t utilize its modularity and extensibility to fix problems that can be fixed in an alternative with actual development happening. But it appears the solution of finally making a fork has been found.

    I welcome anyone to find fascism, nazism, conspiracy theories (if that’s about said freeze and refusal to break backwards compatibility in some things, then, well, that’s a fact visible for anyone on the web) here.

    “Concerned” Trolling about the Accessibility of the Wayland session

    So for actual complaints they just say it’s trolling and put quotes. That’s not a valid response.

    You all need mandatory supervised access to the Internet from now on.

    Maybe snowflake GNOME devs need that? I don’t use GNOME, so - won’t really feel the loss.

  • ViatorOmnium@piefed.socialEnglish
    22·
    6 months ago

    Is it so surprising that the mindset that makes people unable to face changes in one area of their lives also makes them unable to face changes in other areas?

  • haui@lemmy.giftedmc.com
    46·
    6 months ago

    I will always be hated for this but fascism is necessary. It is the whip of the owning class. As long as you have capitalism, you have fascism.

    In more detail if you wish:

    Normal society: Person make chair, person sell chair, person eat

    Thats the “natural” way of things.

    Capitalism: Person make chair, person get tiny cut of chair because [mArKeTiNg cOsT, responsibility, land ownership and other bogus excuses], person eat less, capitalist eat more.

    People dont really accept this because it is not natural or fair. Therefore you need a couple of things, depending on the stage of capitalism:

    the carrot (you will have your own house! you will buy cool things! you can be rich!)

    the veil (propaganda, telling you why it is the only thing that works, why you just need to comply, because compliance will be rewarded…)

    the stick (a militarized police force that will shoot you if you dont comply)

    As you can see, all western states are currently going down the “military disguised as police” route. Why do you think that is? It is because the capitalists want more yachts.

    And after 100 years of propaganda, we actually believe there never has been a better system.

    Have a great day.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
      42·
      6 months ago

      And after 100 years of propaganda, we actually believe there never has been a better system.

      If you mean the way a medieval village or town functioned, then this comparison omits the improvements of “capitalism” over it.

      Person make chair, person sell chair, person eat - that’s if they are this village’s or town’s chairmaker. If not, they are treated as if they stole from the chairmaker. Teeth kicked in, banished. Something like that. The chairmaker’s role is transferred by inheritance or by apprenticeship from one person to one other person. Like a noble’s title.

      The way medical practice works in some countries with English law, I’ve heard, still reminisces that, and the results are not liked generally.

      Choices and social mobility and social lifts are not present in a traditional society. That village remains in one place over many years. It may grow or shrink, but there’s simply no need to allow cook’s son to become a chairmaker, or vice versa. Or if there’s is, the whole village may assemble and talk about such a decision once in 10-20 years. If he has two sons, then one of them works for the other, can’t be cook on his own. If he wants to be his own man, he can try and find an apprenticeship, if some other master doesn’t have a son or an apprentice. In other place maybe.

      In a city it was similar, except, to scale the same “natural order”, guilds existed and not small families, but guilds’ heads would make such collegial decisions. Or heads of merchant families.

      What you feel as oppression now is not really worse than what a medieval man felt, living all his life the same way in the same place.

      I blame Marx for this misconception, he probably tried to play the “good old times” typical German card, but his followers, as a result, often believe that industrialization somehow made free people wage slaves. No. Try living in a village, today, in a western country. And then imagine you wouldn’t work or travel elsewhere, all your life would be around that small place, with the same few people and families year after year. Social lifts and social mobility, vertical or even horizontal, were simply unimaginable in such a structure.

  • Rusty Shackleford@programming.devEnglish
    10·
    6 months ago

    I use X11 over Wayland on KDE Neon for RustDesk compatibility. The Wayland support for that application is still in Beta from what I understand.

    Are there other reasons why I should keep X11? I am on AMD Ryzen 9 5950X paired with a RTX 3090 FE on 570-open drivers, for reference.

  • CoyoteFacts@piefed.caEnglish
    491·
    6 months ago

    As a commenter on that post says, this sort of talk is also common in the comments of Phoronix articles. The commenter says they’ve completely stopped supporting Phoronix since it’s clear that Michael enables this behavior by not moderating it (the least he could do is disable commenting; the type of people that are in the Phoronix comments are the absolute worst). It’s been festering for a very long time, unfortunately. Click any Phoronix article that’s older than a day and check the negativity. Worse, click an article about a controversial topic like X11/Wayland/Systemd/bcachefs/KDE/GNOME/etc. and it’s just a shitshow.

    I’ve been seeing it to a lesser degree here as well. I don’t know what it is about X11 that really riles up the conspiracy theorists.

    • Feyd@programming.dev
      25·
      6 months ago

      YES. Phoronix articles are good but the comment sections are insane. There are a few very vocal users that would have been banned on any reasonably moderated forum, and they largely chase out the reasonable people.

      Also, occasionally there is an article about CoC or something that is obviously going to bring the loonies out of the woodwork. The comment section will get closed, but not until after the giant flamewar has gone on for a bit. Michael has to know that’s going to happen and make the decision not to close it immediately when he makes the post.

    • Maiq@lemy.lol
      6·
      6 months ago

      The only thing I miss about X11 is xscreensaver. I hope the dev makes a port for wayland one day. I dont care if it ever has screen locking, i just want bouncing cows.

    • lai, a supersonic warrior@piefed.socialEnglish
      01·
      6 months ago

      lol Lunduke shot against Michael (Phoronix) and you, which seem to be from the other political side now aswell! xD

      i think michael is doing a good job moderating and in his voverage of xlibre.

  • CodexArcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    767·
    6 months ago

    There is no place for Fascists within the Open Source and Free Software communities or the society at large. You will never fester your poisonous roots here. Go back to the cave you crawled out from where no sunlight can reach.

    NAZI! DEVS! FUCK! OFF! 💯

  • [migrated to PieFed]@beehaw.org
    714·
    6 months ago

    Fascists and Nazis
    Wild Conspiracy Theories that make Qanon jealous
    “Concerned” Trolling about the Accessibility of the Wayland session
    A culture war where Wayland is Gay, and X11 is the glorious past they stole from you

    This all seems like AI slop not worth discussing.

    - -
    ✍︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature.