- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
I know there are plenty of software missing from here. This is just a fun infographic I made, no need to take it seriously :)
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I don’t think anyone thinks WhatsApp is secure
It’s not about what you use, but how you use it. PEBCAK Almost 100% privacy and security is offline at home, reading a book, if you bought the book with cash and not online and/or with credit card.
But you do know that Tor/VPN is not really privacy, nor security? It hides your IP, but that’s about it. If you still login, and give any information, and that could just be your “fingerprint” you are not anonymous…
Encryption is a type of security, and Tor/VPNs encrypt your traffic. Accessing .onion sites over Tor is (at least in theory) more secure than accessing clearnet sites.
In theory - but it’s still primarily your IP you are hiding. And very few people only visits -onion pages…
Hopefully you don’t log in or give personal info to every website you use. Hiding your IP is still more private than not hiding it.
Do you know what your fingerprint is? And all the ways you are being tracked that is not about your IP?
You do give personal info to every website you visit - with the exception of a very few, who respect your privacy. If you think you need to log in, to give personal info, then you are sadly misinformed.
Yep, I do know those things. There are other tools for that. Tor is still useful for doing what it does.
VPNs know who you are and what websites you visit, so no privacy nor anonymity there. With Tor… It’s complicated. That’s why we have guides like this: http://blog.nowherejezfoltodf4jiyl6r56jnzintap5vyjlia7fkirfsnfizflqd.onion/opsec.
Only a few take their privacy serious. They, sadly, believe in the ethics of the Tech giants…
I2P is king here but it has a limitation that makes it stronger but less practical. I2P doesn’t generally do outproxies. A few exist but they typically aren’t trusted or used. Instead, I2P tries to keep private by only routing around traffic the originated within its own network rather than piping things from clearnet from one place to another. An issue with arrives that do that is you can see traffic from a honey pot going into a black box and with enough monitoring where it ends up leaving that black box. It’s very difficult to track traffic flow within the network but once it jumps back into clear net you can find it again.
Now while you can argue that it doesn’t come out on clearnet, just originates from there, I counter that with Microsoft Windows telemetry, it might as well be clearnet. Windows is the dominant player at the moment so it’s most likely the traffic ends up on a windows machine. There are really benefits behind the telemetry date but they also means there’s a single point an authoritarian regime can apply pressure to to monitor whatever they want. With advances in AI, chewing through tons of collected data is much easier to do, so the idea of “they can’t stop all of us” is ridiculous. They will just pick off the undesirables in smaller chunks.
Ultimately nothing is completely safe but if you really value privacy, make yourself such an enormous pain in the ass that monitoring you becomes a chore.
Lol proton vpn
What’s wrong with Proton VPN?
The Proton CEO is quite active in twitter and participates in podcasts. Well, one day he praised one action of the Trump administration on antitrust and a whole community attacked him for “praising Trump” when he did only a nomination for Attorney General for the Antitrust division. I highly doubt he is a MAGA supporter and listening to him for 30min on any of the multiple appearances he was on, will confirm you that. Several things concerns me on Proton, the CEO’s ideology ain’t one of them.
Unrelated to this, I wish people was more forgiven of Trump voters, it is not the monolithic the Left tries to portray it is. Trump sold himself as fighting the establishment, being anti-war and pro-antitrust (many small business owners supported him). People voted for him even suspecting he most likely was lying. Many people, both in 2016 and 2024, voted for Trump because Hillary was very pro-war (for instance she say she would attack Russian military directly in Syria) and Kamala proudly said she would not change anything on Biden’s policy in the middle of Gaza’s massacres. MAGA has many racists, many! (Democrats has is share too, but usually quieter but one can notice them at the grocery stores!) But what made Trump win was desperate disfranchised Americans with no other alternatives that promised Change. Europeans should keep quiet too… in the last elections they voted as different as they could demanding change to end up with Ursula von der Leyen for another term. Democracies in both sides of the Atlantlic are heavily ill and people, in desperation, vote for whoever promises change, independently of anything else.
I wish people was more forgiven of Trump voters, it is not the monolithic the Left tries to portray it is. Trump sold himself as fighting the establishment, being anti-war and pro-antitrust (many small business owners supported him)
Be prepared to accept accusations of being a fascist Nazi for saying this. You’re right, but Lemmy is so extreme on this subject, that if you aren’t with the majority, then you’re an evil nazi pig–regardless of reality.
I still get accused of it and all I did was vote third party in the election. 9 months ago! lol
Screw me! I feel bad because instead of welcoming those now disenchanted MAGA, we are shunning them away and pushing them toward Musk’s new party and the like. We did same mistake after Trump’s 1st term too.
Agreed. Lots of missed opportunities, and Lemmy is also shunning away their allies against Trump by overusing the words Nazi and Fascist to describe every poster that disagrees with Democrats. My gf, who is very very anti-Trump, lasted on Lemmy one day. One day!
She said it was way too hateful and political. lol
I feel bad even recommending it to her, and I don’t recommend it to any of my friends anymore.
Lemmy will die in a few years because of it’s extremism. It’s already slowing down. But I’ll ride it to the end to prove to people that they didn’t bully me off of it. :)
Let me know if you find a better venue… I am also disappointed in Lemmy. Is it so hard to find a place where people try to understand why things are one way and another before slapping each other.
I’d lived in a very swing state, in a very swing county and thanks to that predicted elections like no pollster did (even Trump in 2016 as he came down a escalator and every media laughed at him)… I saw no more malice in an average Trump voter than a Kamala one, I find a portion of them both as equally racist (some 30% I would say), one just is more vocal and explicit while the other chooses to express the racism passively aggressive… Two black family moved into our street and one Trumper told me that he does not like the “blacks in front” and a long time Democrat neighbor told me instead… that she was going to move to a better school district “because demographics”… what is the difference?
Let me know if you find a better venue… I am also disappointed in Lemmy.
I still love Lemmy, and my main Lemmy instance. But ugh, everything is getting so political and extreme everywhere. I’m trying to transition into just posting my writing and staying in writing communities, but my reputation proceeds me (still no regrets and I still believe in everything I said) and things can downgrade pretty quick.
And if I came up with an alt name, people would recognize my writing and say I was ban-evading.
So ugh, we’ll see. I’m trying to just stay out of everything political, but people mention my fucking name all the time anytime someone talks about “trolls.” And I never back down when I get false accused. lmao
Stop having rational discussions. This is Lemmy.
Good point! I forgot where I was for a sec.
They’re pro-Trump
How does that effect their privacy/security?
It means they don’t understand privacy very well so they’re probably going to do a bad job at it
No. Things do not work like that. If you don’t like something it doesn’t automatically mean that it’s bad.
There are no alternative options for me, as a free user.
that’s fine for now. Mullvad is very affordable though.
I’m aware. I will use it when i finally decide to pay for even more privacy.
I2P and postman are free.
Still secure
VPN services aren’t for security they’re for getting around regional blocks. If you want privacy build your own. But even then youll still be tracked
They are multipurpose. You can’t deny using a VPN over no VPN increases anonymity
You’re just letting another party harvest your browsing habits.
Incorrect. It just means someone has to throw money at proton to get that data instead of throwing at ISPs and marketing nuts. They are subject to the same capitalistic pressures as anyone else.
I2P needs more torrents and more people.
Torrenting over VPN service is also dumb. Why bother just get a seedbox that accepts xmr
Seed boxes are also dumb. You are making a honeypot for yourself that can be monitored by the hosting provider.
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vpns are not anonymous just instead of your isp getting your internet traffic the vpn does theres also not a real way to verify what there doing on there servers unless your sitting inside of the datacenter monitoring it vpns where never supposed to be anonymous
The post is about security /privacy, the non American ceos political opinions don’t impact that. Proton is still a good VPN/mail provider
What’s with the diss on Malwarebytes?
Mainly because it’s proprietary, privacy invasive by nature, and invasive on computers.
Proprietary sure, but how is it privacy invasive let alone invasive on computers?
What non-proprietary option is there? I can’t think of a single antivirus option which is actually remotely decent which is open.
ClamAV is an open source antivirus, but I would recommend against using an antivirus altogether due to their invasive nature. You shouldn’t need one with proper sandboxing and isolation.
ClamAV is slow to get updates and frankly not a great tool to use. AV is a must as isolation and sandboxing are only as good as the next exploit. Not too mention scams like phishing are not stopped by isolation.
It’s also a shit product riding on marketing laurels from its past glory days, like Norton. It leaves pieces behind that can cause malware to come roaring back.
It isn’t hard to just nuke a system or restore a backup people.
Assuming that your backup isn’t also infected.
They’re taking it too seriously lol
The hardest online privacy is not operating in a way that just links all your “private” activity because you logged in around enough places to link them together and at least one place somewhere can be linked to your real identity
OP would not recognize a threat model if it bit him in the ass.
math is always stronger than marketing
Well, usually not. Unfortunately.
Depends on how you measure and what
Same email for everything is fine if you use subaddressing. My email service, Port87, makes it super easy.
iOS is actually secure
Yes and no. It’s certainly better than stock android. You won’t find anyone who says otherwise. But it creates unnecessary dependancies on apple’s ecosystem and Apple can’t be trusted. Nothing with shareholders can be trusted. Apple might be an ally today but they are a US based-company operating within the confines of what the US will let it do.
All their cloud services are pretty poorly protected too. Every year or so me and my friends will find Chinese gibberish entries in our calendars that link to phishing sites. These get cleaned up eventually but it proves that Apple is lying about not being able to access your shit.
I’m planning my exodus from the Apple ecosystem and looking at grapheneOS but I’m still in the skeptic stage. I have lots of cloud decoupling to do and my self hosting ambitions are big so at the moment my iPhone isnt the biggest priority to change out.
But I absolutely do not trust it.
Every year or so me and my friends will find Chinese gibberish entries in our calendars that link to phishing sites.
D@mn! That was an absolute PITA. In my experience, my calendars and contacts never synced properly anyway so I went to the Proton ecosystem a few years ago.
Anyway, thank you for sharing. I only know one other person who had the same problem and we both thought we were going nuts.
Grapheneos is surely better privacy and security wise
it maybe secure. Sending your privacy information securely to the server and sharing with ad companies
Cool and who validates the code base for security vulnerability? And sends tons of packets related to tracking back to there servers?
the codebase itself? besides XNU, nobody… but, given the immense amount of scrutiny placed on the software, if there was some magic backdoor (an intentional one, anyway, not talking about like NSO group RCEs 'n shit), don’t you think we’d know?
the average person doesn’t even know what grapheneos is. if they’re either going to buy an iphone, or some generic android phone running a vendor kernel that hasn’t been patched this administration, i’d want them to buy the iphone.
There are massive backdoors, tho on android too. How do you think Pegasus works
moi: “not talking about like NSO group RCEs 'n shit”
tu: “how do you think pegasus works”
you could have at least picked a different cyberwarfare company…
by that logic, every OS under the sun has massive backdoors. bugs exist, man. my point was that for the average person, a fully-patched ithing is going to be among the more secure options.
wasn’t Pegasus attack vector sms how is it a OS issue if its a protocol its the same as saying Linux is insecure because xmpp had a vulnrabilty and allowed remote access
depends on the chain in question. some used iMessage as a way in, but (at least in the case i’m thinking of rn) it was only used to trigger an image parsing bug. in others, sms was used to trick someone into clicking a link, exploiting a bug in JavaScriptCore.
Are you interested in a bridge?
Not by default.
I have this bad gut feeling about Signal and Proton, I have no evidence tho.
Some of those mentioned likely are compromised, but cannot figured out which. The thing, is to diversify our risk and the privacy minded to use different platforms (Proton VPN and Mullvad VPN for instance).
The good news, is that if an agency is compromising something, they will likely won’t use the intel gathered in court cases in order to leave it open to future prey, so that is good for vast majority of users. The very few that are relevant enough should not trust even the genuine privacy tools and resort to enhanced methods and combining methodologies.
My impression, and just impression, is that I would trust **Tuta **more than Proton (and not because Proton’s CEO that many interpreted wrong anyways) On VPN… a tad more trust on Mullvad. Signal, I would not use it for high stakes communication but OK for most people. GrapheneOS seems okay and we know for sure it does not leak info on a daily basics, but we have to be careful, it could have an obscure code dormant waiting for a trigger or could easily send data to an unsuspected server, Ironically, if I were Snoden, I would feel more comfortable using a Huawei Mate with HarmonyOS than a Pixel 9 with GrapheneOS… of course China spies too massively, but it has far less beef with Snoden than the US does, therefore not of much interest to Beijing.
Remember that overwhelming majority of FOSS goes without any audit, let alone a comprehensive one. This is what some trusted party should put AI checking ASAP all the FOSS out there!
Very interesting insights. Funnily I use all of the services you cautiously recommend, including GrapheneOS, but not HarmonyOS, hard pass on that one. As a German I am also legally required to prefer Tuta. :) I still have that OG 1€/Month contract.
Edit: Your last point is a good idea, although I think the more popular an open source app is, the less likely it is to be malicious. A lot more eyes on it and the xz backdoor was caught pretty much immediately.
Of course… for us normies… GrapheneOS is the way to go. Very high targeted individuals in the West should however consider HarmonyOS. Of Course the Chinese government has eyes on that one but not specifically targeting you… unless they use it to trade intel on someone of high interest for China but no much collaboration between West and China intelligence agencies today…
True, popularity increases the chances someone auditing. But, to a point. Ideally audit should be performed with every single update and on the servers, and there the premise of more eyes does not hold true no more. Then it comes trust. In a company like Tuta, the people behind showed their faces from day one, the same people are there, is a tight team so harder for a bad apple to do something. Considering both Tuta and Proton were good from inception (and I believe it may be the case), it would probably would be easier for an intelligence agency to penetrate Proton than Tuta, just for the structure that appears they have from outside. Now, Tuta made a horrible mistake once! In the Russian invasion of Ukraine, independently of one’s take on it, Tuta made the “Standing with Ukraine” (March 2022); that was a mistake, it may many doubt if privacy still their paramount over any other ideology. Maybe they have change since since no statements on Gaza… or maybe they agree with what is happening… who knows… that is why they should not make any statements at all, or clarify that while they have their ideologies in no case, ever will compromise their stands on privacy. To be fair, Proton did the same… nothing on Ukraine but on Gaza “We unequivocally condemn the terrorist attacks by Hamas against Israeli civilians […] We also condemn violence against civilians in Gaza”; so I guess both are comparable here! My trust for both is slim, as a company, and even their individuals.
Maybe it’s because the current administration uses signal to plan acts of war and proton’s ceo is supportive of said administration.
They don’t use Signal though. They use a clone called TeleMessage Signal which logs and archives all their messages on an Israeli server, and which a hacker was able to access before the service was suspended.
You can’t really help if someone forks and misuses software.
proton has already shared user data with authorities; you don’t have to go by your gut
Ah, I believe this is what’s called “a conspiracy theory” if you had more details.
For Proton it is the “tech bro”-y feeling and for Signal it is wondering about financing. Also, if you are paying for your own audits there is an obvious conflict of interest.
I’m sorry - paying for an audit is somehow a conflict of interest? How exactly is that?
As someone who had to contract auditing firms every year, and personally sign off in their report as part of our compliance, I would love to hear how I should have …what? Won the audit lottery? Applied for some sort of government assistance? Prayed to an audit fairy godmother?
Who the F else is paying for our audit? I want free audits! I bet everyone does.
My guess is they think that since you’re paying for the audit the auditors won’t bust you for fraud, which is cute, since the auditors are asked to audit specific things that the company asks them to audit. They’re not released on the company like witch hunters, with wide open access to everything, cutting a swathe through fraud and criminality while people are furiously burning documents in the basement. So there is no conflict of interest, since the auditors are looking at what the people using them are asking them to look at.
I know, it’s just kind of laughably shouting they don’t know what either an audit or conflict of interest actually are.
The hardest part some times is finding an audit firm that isn’t stupid expensive, but also won’t do a shit job and give you a report that looks like some knock-off free LLM didn’t write it to maximize their own payday. I love a good audit report with findings, it means I didn’t waste money. But my shit is (well, was, at another place years back) locked down tight, so we didn’t ever expect anything terrible.
Same here, everyone was so stressed about “the audit” but we had written common sense processes and executed them as needed, with mechanisms in place to flag potential areas for improvement if we found gaps.
The audit was fine.
crypto currency
This is the correct initial reaction but given the extent to which the US monitors every single transaction everyone makes, it’s getting awful hard to manage the influx of feral hogs without having them streaming through your door.
Well, unlike Bitcoin, Monero is actually anonymous, and sometimes you gotta make payments online.
You can’t do it privately with your card.
Bitcoin’s Lightning Network has onion routing for privacy, like Tor.
When Bitcoin had a bug that allowed some guy to give himself a bazillion bitcoin, it was detected and patched before he was able to sell them. When Monero encounters a similar bug, it will only be detectable by the price going down.
I’m not super knowledgeable on how anonymous such routing us, hence I avoid it.
Don’t know why people bombarded you so much - the other side of total anonymity is that you really never know if anything got broken and someone earned off it.
My suggestion, however, is to use Monero for payments, and not as a store of value.
Yep, anonymous right up until its use burns the world to the ground.
Monero transactions consume orders of magnitude less energy than Bitcoin’s thanks to an ASIC-resistant algorithm
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What anubis has to do with privacy or security?
It stops bots from crawling your sites.
Yes, this was the intention. It helps protect your website’s data by slowing down web scrapers.
Nothing, op confused anti AI with anti tracking.
It is though, there’s a reason Mullvad added DAITA into its protocol.
ig it’s a counterpart to recaptcha which is in the left panel
AI Datasets are a huge privacy breach once they start spilling them up
For starters, it’s open source. And I’m not too into the details, but the creator of Anubis even mentioned that they were interested in creating a non-javascript version for privacy.
Google’s reCaptcha, to which Anubis is being compared to by OP, is obviously far less private. It’s just another mechanism of control and data harvesting for Google. One of the ways that they determine if you’re malicious/human or not is to check if you have a Google cookie in your browser and are signed in. Not to mention fingerprinting (hardware and software info), browsing data, AI training ironically enough (the fucking streetlights), etc etc.
Anubis is relevant here because it is more private, among other things.
Any article or post of how embrace the use of some of those technologies?
Good question! There are hundreds of good resources, some of which include Privacy Guides and my friends at Punching Up Press (they have a lot of other good infographics). Naomi Brockwell TV is a YouTuber with some great beginner friendly videos to guide you step by step. Let me know if you’re interested in others!
Thank you :D I’m going to check those links this weekend.
Security isn’t the size of the app, it’s how you use it :)
Security isn’t the size of the app
This could have two meanings, one of which I figure I should address:
- If you mean “size of the userbase for an app,” then yes, even projects that fly under the radar are much more secure than “mainstream” options. That’s the main purpose of this infographic.
- If you mean “physical size of the app on the infographic,” the reason they’re different sizes is simply because they were hard to fit on one page, and this made it look nice ;)
- Penis joke
Oh
![[OC] What People Think Privacy/Security Is](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/30cec389-1586-4849-84ac-d8a9f4f0df5b.png){kind=link}