When asked what Kamala’s opinion was about Trans people and protections, all she said is “they should follow the law”.
The fuck is that non answer
Look at them all doing somersaults in the comments trying to justify their shitty decisions. Jokers all of them
Holy blame shifting, Batman!
I don’t get it. First the centrists were called leftist, just because they are left of right. Now stalinists are considered leftist, even though they have way more in common with fascists than even the centrists.
I can explain! Reality is whatever OP needs it to be so that they are right and you are wrong.
I can promise that non-harm reduction leftists who aren’t Stalinists outnumber those who are.
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Wonder where all those people are? Immediately after the election for several months lemmy was full of people blaming how shitty things turned out on anyone but themselves. “It’s the Democrats fault I didn’t vote even though I know trump is a fascist POS!”
NOBODY thinks the dems are great. They’re fucked up.
But they’re not Alligator Auschwitz fucked up. They’re not screw the country with tariffs fucked up. They’re not ICE Gestapo fucked up.
But that’s not the non-voters fault because this is better than some neo-lib winning.
But the Democrats are:
- Bomb kids fucked up
- Torture innocent people fucked up
- Build out the infrastructure for fascism fucked up
- Genocide supporting fucked up
- Refusing to fight against MAGA fucked up
- Taking money from the poor and working class, and giving it to the rich fucked up
- Bragging about how many people they deported fucked up
- Not giving people fair immigration trials fucked up
Some of us think that those things are kind of a big deal. Are Democrats better than Trump? Sure. Is a Neo-lib better than Trump? Sure, but that doesn’t mean that I’m going to vote for a party that openly fights against the things I believe in, like:
- Healthcare for all
- Equal treatment for everyone under the law
- The rich paying their fair share of taxes
- The US to stop bombing innocent people
- Stopping the war machine
- Stop backing a genocide
- Free Education
- Affordible housing
- Fixing the immigration system
Sure, but that doesn’t mean that I’m going to vote for a party that openly fights against the things I believe in
Thanks, the lives of marginalized folk thank you from inside Alligator Auschwitz. I’m so glad you just couldn’t bring yourself to vote against the literal Nazis.
If the Democrat Party continues the way it has, they will look exactly like the current Republican party in the next decade. Republicans will be full puritanical. Supporters of the DNC will still be supporting the lesser evil. The only solution is for intelligent voters to take the stick of fear out of their asses and go full support for better candidates in primaries or other parties. The people who continue to run our two party system will not give up their power.
If the Democrat Party continues the way it has, they will look exactly like the current Republican party in the next decade.
If they see that the majority of the voting population is voting for Republicans, it make sense that Democrats will adopt more Republican-leaning policies. They don’t care about serial non voters. They care about swing voters and their voting base.
It’s magical thinking to assume otherwise. People who don’t want either party are too lazy to organize even a protest vote write-in name.
And how has that been working out? The Democrats keep losing because they keep abandoning their voting base, while trying to pull in Republican voters. Republican voters aren’t generally going to start voting for Democrats, but there’s a giant pile of leftist waiting for a party that actually fights for them. Maybe the Democrats should try appealing to them instead.
Do those giant piles go to the voting booths, or are they pinky promising to do so when the general election comes around, next time?
They do. Check out Mamdani, who had record-breaking voters turn out. Remember FDR? They voted so hard for him, that Congress had to set up term-limits. It turns out that this “Leftists don’t vote meme” is bullshit. Leftists just don’t want to vote for Right-Wingers, which is why they never show up for Democrats.
If the Democrat Party continues the way it has, they will look exactly like the current Republican party in the next decade.
This is exactly the same blinkered view that was peddled in 2000, and in 2010, by useful idiots for the Republican Party. Do you not know how far the Dems have fucking come in the past 30 years, both socially and economically?
Maybe listening to people who think worsening the genocide in Gaza is Left Praxis™ because it hurts Shitlibs like AOC and Bernie aren’t a good resource for American politics?
The only thing I can think of that improved socially is federal recognition of same sex marriage, but that was actually set in motion by state level judicial rulings. I can’t think of any economic improvements.
https://ontheissues.org/Bill_Clinton.htm
https://ontheissues.org/Kamala_Harris.htm
Feel free to compare and contrast.
You mean like supporting unions and forgiving student debt? Or do you not count that because republicans sabotaged it?
I think you mean fighting unions, and failing to deliver on the less-than-bare-minimum that he set out to forgive on student debt. It wasn’t sabatoged, it was because he was too busy boming innocent people, backing a genocide, and writing checks to his rich friends to get things done for the voters.
Just one of the things they say they’ll do for popularity but their ‘big’ donors don’t support, so they compromise or fail heartlessly. Sabotage would require opposition. The two parties have been playing the extortion game far too long.
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I’m sure the kids that the US bombed are super grateful that you were so eager to chose genocide over winning an election. I’m so glad you just couldn’t bring yourself to vote against literal child-killers
I’m sure the kids that the US bombed are super grateful that you were so eager to chose genocide over winning an election. I’m so glad you just couldn’t bring yourself to vote against literal child-killers
Don’t worry, I’m sure you know what’s best for Palestinians far more than… [checks notes] Palestinians
Yeah that seems anything but decisive.
Really it reads similar to the disaffected anti-establishment arguments that some folks in the US put forward to defend their support of Trump - with the difference that Palestinians 1) do not vote in US elections and 2) have really good fucking reasons to cling to hope in any kind of change at all.
Not that Trump ever offered that in any way that would help people, but I cannot blame them for grasping at straws. Most seem aware of the fact that US imperialism is inevitable either way.
Ah yes, Truly Enlightened Voters like you realize that Trump having performed Zionist bootlicking above and beyond what even the Republicans, the more Zionist of the two pro-Zionist parties in our society, were willing to do in his last term and promising an even greater expansion of support to the murderous apartheid state, is actually No Difference At All with the Dem candidate backing away from unconditional Zionism.
God, I’m so glad these Both Sides Bad takes are so prevelent here, it would be really awful if it was all cope to avoid the fact that you helped literal Nazis win who have been helping the Nazis in Israel to a far greater degree than the other Zionists.
What the fuck are you talking about.
They’re still being bombed but now Gaza will have a Trump Tower too thanks to people like you.
- Thanks to the party that chose genocide over winning an election
Fixed that for you
Confidently incorrect. Bravo.
What is incorrect about that? The party made it very clear that they wanted to keep sending weapons, instead winning the election.
You don’t vote for everything at once. You vote on what’s on the ballot. Palestine wasn’t on the ballot. Concentration camps, fascism, economic meltdown, removal of the social safety, women’s rights, and the rule of law were.
You decided that you were okay with all that bullshit because of something else unrelated. And look - Israel is acting worse than ever now because Trump doesn’t even pretend to be against genocide.
You chose this, and you should lose sleep over it.
No, I was not OK with all of that bullshit, which is why I voted against it. If you are going to disagree with me, that’s fine. But I’ll start taking you seriously when you stop making up stuff about me.
You just called out people for not voting against the Dems in the comment I was replying to.
It’s easier to keep your talking points consistent when you aren’t a troll who has to keep track of which lies they’re telling in which conversation threads.
Well, I called out people who proudly voted for genocide and bombing children. I wanted the Democrats to fight against “Concentration camps, fascism, economic meltdown, removal of the social safety…” and fight for “…women’s rights, and the rule of law…”, but they weren’t. The Democrats were doing the opposite.
Concentration camps, fascism, economic meltdown, removal of the social safety, women’s rights, and the rule of law were.
Those were all on the ballot if Kamala had won.
Concentration camps, fascism, women’s rights
Yes, those would have been better if Kamala had won.
Economic meltdown, removal of the social safety, rule of law
I’m not convinced those would have been fixed if she would have won, as they were not fixed by any of her Democratic predecessors. The same predecessors that she made every indication she would follow.
You don’t think the last few Dem presidents helped move the economy in the right direction?
But the next Democratic president isn’t going to close that place. Likely they will expand it. That’s what happened with the last Democratic president.
Oh, were you planning on electing Republicans again and backing NIMBY politicians and then being surprised when they act like Republicans and NIMBYs, like when Obama made repeated efforts to close Gitmo?
The system sucks but you’re never getting any of the things you want from it without the Democratic party. Leftists should be taking over the party instead of abandoning it. Or letting themselves get played into abandoning it by those who want to disempower the left. The system guarantees that we get two parties and we’re not going to take the GOP so the Dems are really it. It sucks but it is what is, you can’t wield the state without first wielding one of the two parties. There is no other realistic path to power under the system.
We’re not going to get the things that we want from the Democratic party. They’ve been overwhelmingly clear that they would rather keep losing elections than give us any of those things. Why would I keep investing in a party that openly and strongly tells me “No, go fuck yourself. We’re gonna keep bombing children” ?
If you want to try and fix the Democrats, then go get em tiger. I have no problems with others trying to fix it from the inside. But I’m not wasting my time with them.
But they’re not Alligator Auschwitz fucked up.
Do you have any evidence that the next democratic president will close Trump’s new immigration camps? Because they didn’t the last time. They kept all of Trump’s aggressive immigration programs and even expanded them. If history is any guide, the next democratic president will be just as cruel to immigrants as Trump is now. Biden didn’t let up at all from Trump’s cruel treatment of immigrants. Democrats just adopted the Republican immigration polices wholesale.
Do you have any evidence that I won’t win a $60 million dollar lottery prize next week? I play the lottery occasionally…
You’re giving lots of examples of things that Democrats didn’t start, but chose to continue. Which party started those things?
Obviously the Republicans, but we’re not voting republican we’re voting Democrat right? So why the fuck don’t they reverse the policies we hate? Parlimanatarian says we can’t :ccc oh our friends the Republicans won’t vote for it, we have to be bIpArTiSaN
That’s a valid point, but
we’re not voting republican we’re voting Democrat right?
Many people are abstaining instead of voting for either party or a write in.
I don’t like the idea of a 3rd party president without 3rd party representation in the senate/house/local government positions first, but I’d prefer that people vote 3rd party over not voting at all because they don’t like the 2 party system.
I just do not believe a majority of leftists are refusing to vote, while at the same time understanding why they’d be dissilusioned with the “only sane option” that has so clearly demonstrated they do not actually have the will to make the changes they campaign on. Which results in a swing back the other direction by independents giving Republicans power, who WILL actually use any means necessary to put in place their horrible agenda.
Only 73% of the voting aged population is registered. Only 65% of the voting population voted. I’m not sure what the ideological breakdown of non voters is, but I’m positive leftists are in there.
Its been over a year and people still are freaking out about this? And not the fact that the democrats have basically rolled over at every turn to trump and the GOPs demands?
The dems did not do s good job mobilizing their voter base. A bunch of people didnt like genocide. A bunch of people didnt like Biden. A bunch of people held their nose and voted for him the first time when he said he would get rid of student loans and be a one term president. He reneged on almost every single promise he made. He then committed genocide. People didnt like it. The DNC shoved him and Kamala down everyone’s throats instead of having an actual election. They’ve fucked themselves 3 cycles in a row now and then start complaining about socialists.
They were all vote blue no matter who when it was Biden or Kamala but now Mamdani won in NY and they’re all teaming up with the Republicans to stop him. Maybe thats why they keep fucking losing - they dont want to listen to their own base.
What do regular people want? Higher taxes on the rich, more affordable housing and food, Healthcare for all, and good education. All they’ve done is say well this will hurt billionaires feelings so we cant do it.
Ah, this Pug Jesus. Always angry at leftists showing they’re just Republican lite. Got it.
I’ll pose an interesting question:
is it more important to maintain your personal morality, or potentially break it to protect people in imminent danger?
OP admits that they would cast a vote to put trans people in camps if the situation was right. This meme is ridiculous coming from a person like that.
You know how before the elections we say that it’s not the time to nitpick the Democratic Party because it’s more important to have it win so that the fascist won’t win?
Well, now we are not before elections, which means that now it is the time to nitpick the Democratic Party.
True but it’s a minor point. Even if every single lefty held the line it wouldn’t have made a difference. The people who didn’t vote were mostly disengaged normal people and the blame for that is squarely on the Democrats for sucking absolute shit on purpose because of big money in politics.
Have some perspective, pick better fights with worse people. I personally find it extremely unmoving when the left chastises people over politics so good job emulating one of their worst and least politically effective qualities.
Instead, I humbly suggest you try to inspire a shred of hope among the cynical and apathetic - but deep down actually very cool people of the Earth🌠
Ah shit, here we go again.
Thank you. I really don’t get those people.
And I mean, the Democratic party doesn’t exist in a vacuum. If you don’t try to change anything, of course the awful “moderates” stay in charge. But it is possible to overtake them, just look at Mamdani. But some people won’t even try that because “it’s a lost case”…
We need never be afraid of the vote of informed Americans. It is only the ignorant voter we have to fear, ignorant politically, no matter how fine his house or how expensive his schooling. Such people have never experienced democracy; they have merely enjoyed its benefits. It is hard to explain what democracy is; it is necessary to participate in it to understand it.
The former Berlin businessman I referred to earlier told me that he blamed his own group, people with the time and the money and the opportunity to know better, for what happened to Germany. “We ignored Hitler,” he said. “We considered him an unimportant fellow, not quite a gentleman, not of our own class. We considered it just a little bit vulgar to bother with him, to bother with politics at all.”
They thought of the government as “They.” The only possible route to a clear conscience in politics is to accept political responsibility, either as an active member of the party in power or as an equally active member of the loyal opposition.
—Robert A. Heinlein, Take Back Your Government
The point is that socialism cannot be achieved by electoral means. At best, if the masses in the street really pressure those in power, you get social democracy. That being said the choice for Americans was neoliberalism or fascism. The reasons for fascism winning go deeper than “the left was to whinny”, but that’s beside the point being made here.
Okay, so, which is easier for socialists to organize under? Neoliberalism, or fascism?
Don’t you see? Only when it’s all ashes can we start the utopia. /s
Neoliberalism, obviously. Kamala probably wouldn’t be in favour of people being abducted off the street and shoved into unmarked vans.
Apparently that very controversial position makes us shitlibs instead of people who would like to not be abducted by unmarked secret police and taken to a black site while we try to organize socialist political movements.
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Playing devil’s advocate here. It’s probably much easier to grow a resistance against fascism than neoliberalism, as neoliberalism is comfortable enough for most people.
There are goals before socialism that ARE achievable electorally which are still worth pursuing in the meantime, like stalling fascists, or prevent genocide of immigrants and queer folks
If you don’t try to change anything, of course the awful “moderates” stay in charge.
Trying to change thing is exactly what the Uncommitted movement tried to do. And while they failed to move the needle in the 2024 election, in 2028, the Democrats will have to think a lot more about whether they want to keep losing in exchange for supporting genocide.
Remember, it’s always “the most important election ever.” Every election is billed as that. But sometimes you need to be willing to accept a short-term loss in exchange for long-term progress. Myopically focusing on just the election right in front of you is how we got into this mess in the first place.
Kamala losing gave space for someone like Mamdani to win. It’s clear that corporate DNC centrism is a toxic losing brand. If Kamala had won, it is extremely unlikely that Mamdani would have won the NYC primary.
Trying to change thing is exactly what the Uncommitted movement tried to do
Where did I say anything bad about them? It was about the primary and not about the general election.
I actually get your point in theory as you could see elections in a game theory type of setting. The problem is that the last elections have been “the most important election ever” because well… they have gotten increasingly more significant and important. 2016 allowed Trump to shift the Supreme Court long-term and change decades-old consensus. It alone almost got him to do a coup. 2020 could have very well literally enabled that, and 2024 well… just look at everything that is happen. This is not the beginning of fascism, that’s well some steps inside.
I get the theory, and if the opponent was a McCain I could even understand your thought. But if it’s the election of 1930, where every vote counts to defeat the bigger evil, it’s not the time to sit it out for future benefits.
Every election since I could vote (early 2000s) has been the most important.
Why? Because the results built the Supreme Court that curtailed every progressive policy achievement and accelerated our current descent into fascism.
Without GWB you don’t have Roberts or Alito. Without Trump you don’t have Gorsuch, Cavanaugh, or Barrett.
Those fuckers have lifetime appointments. One lost election sets us back decades. The only good time for a protest vote is the primary.
Literal accelerationism. Jesus fucking Christ.
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They are either trying to trick people into not voting against the GOP or they have been tricked themselves.
“Both sides are the same” has been a bad faith argument I’ve heard from conservatives for decades.
or they have been tricked themselves.
Worse. They think martyrdom and purity politics are preferable to making any sort of actual difference. They have to keep their souls pure, you see.
It’s religion for the irreligious.
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I’m not trying to make an excuse for these people and their cowardice
Good thing, too, because that explanation would only increase my contempt for them, LOL!
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The bravery of… Throwing LGBTQ+ people under the bus and trying to force violent conflict. Nah. I don’t buy it.
He now holds the primary attendance record in NYC. It was only 30% of eligible voters, up from 21% in the last election. That’s literally all it takes. We just need to show the fuck up.
Congressional primaries see less than 15% attendance. We’ve been letting retirees pack our ballots with centrists for 40 years, then complain about our choices in the general elections. We wouldn’t be calling for term limits if we consistently participated in primaries.
Well that and ranked choice, right?
He won majority first round. Granted, I’d love to see ranked-choice in our federal elections, but that didn’t matter in Mamdani’s case.
Would people have felt empowered to vote for him first if it wasn’t ranked choice?
I believe so. The massive increase in zero prime voters (people who haven’t voted in a primary before) was due to his grassroots campaign.
No “progressive” will have an answer for you on this. Voting isn’t the answer, blah blah blah. But it seems no one ever really tried. Otherwise maybe they’d just organize people into voting in every primary.
No “progressive” will have an answer for you on this. Voting isn’t the answer, blah blah blah. But it seems no one ever really tried. Otherwise maybe they’d just organize people into voting in every primary.
The problem, in my mind:
republicans/regressives (read nazis) actually get in line and vote for the R next to any name that they’ve heard in the last week (if not just because it has an R), which means that they actually get shit done (making things worse, but they all get behind it is my point).
On the other hand, democrats/leftists/progressives all sit here and fight one another because of reasons, some good, and some just a little silly in the grand scheme of things. This group doesn’t know how to effectively work together to slowly and surely get to the same end goal.
The differences here are why regressives are able to rat fuck an entire nation, collectively, because they don’t bicker with each other, their allies, about the smaller details.
The democrats/leftists/progressives are too busy trying to fight hundreds of different problems/battles that would all be solved (eventually, mind you, not right away like we wish it would be) by banding together and keeping the movement momentum going AFTER winning the election.
For an example, gaza and trans rights issues. Both VERY valid issues, and they should be discussed. What happened was those same groups focused way too much on the smaller details instead of the big picture. What SHOULD have happened was we voice our concerns on the issues, vote for the person (at this time, Harris) who had the highest chance of those issues being solved, and then keeping the fire going by continuing to press these concerns to THAT administration.
Look at it this way, even though it is too late: if Kamala had won, you’d be able to sit there and protest any actions that weren’t being made towards your/your groups issues, and if we could all get on the same god damned page, you would have more allies who are more at ease with the current admin who could protest with you, because things aren’t dire enough for them to focus on them and theirs (read fuck you, got mine). Under the orange buffoon, you can now get deported for protesting anything, let alone trans rights and gaza genocide. So, those allies you could’ve had are now being deported, killed, or arrested, and that makes others scared to protest with you.
TL;DR: Allowing the nazis to win because democrats/leftists/progressives can’t see the bigger picture, and choose to focus on their own issues only (or at the very least, make it their highest priority when we should know that’s not how it works, unfortunately) is the reason we have the orange shitler in office right now. This group is trying to fight 100 different battles, while regressives lock step and take away all the good we had achieved, instead of banding together and just doing the literal bare minimum (vote in the “neo-lib”). Full stop.
@PugJesus@lemmy.world is right, whether you like it or not.
If genocide isn’t a red line for you then you don’t have red lines. You will literally vote for rounding up trans people and gassing them as long as the opposing candidate wants to torture them before execution because “it’s the lesser evil”
