Israeli propaganda spreader @PugJesus@lemmy.dbzer0.com a.k.a @PugJesus@lemmy.world banned me from completly unrelated community I never really participated in after I called out his Israeli propaganda lies here:

https://lemmy.world/comment/18376679

  • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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    5 months ago

    Seems like you have a long history of getting banned for incivility.

    https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&actionType=All&userId=8784531

    Judging by some of your comments, like this one

    If you put fifty children with Down’s syndrome in a room there is going to be a lot of hugging.

    and this one

    You are such a pussy 🙄

    and this one

    Move your arse than and let other people to finish their shopping you antisocial twat.

    I would have banned you too

      • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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        5 months ago

        Yeah I dug through the mod log and edited my post. Apologies for the unfounded accusation, but I hope you can see where I’d come to that conclusion.

        • FelixCress@lemmy.worldOP
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          but I hope you can see where I’d come to that conclusion.

          No, after reading your comment where you firstly accused me of antisemitism and then to save face you started digging through my comment history in a desperate attempt to find anything, I think you just wanted to pin anything on me to try to defend your Israeli propaganda manure spreading pal.

          I hope you can see where I’d come to that conclusion.

          • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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            5 months ago

            I didn’t look at your comment history, I looked at the mod log where I saw that you’re constantly getting comment removals and bans for incivility. Judging by the comments that were deleted, you deserved it. Feel free to look at my post history and find a single example of me saying anything positive about Israel. Go ahead, I’ll wait.

            • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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              5 months ago

              You quoted 3 of his comments in the top comment…

              None of us care to go scrounging around in comment history nor need to, to say your interaction here has been condescending.

              • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works
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                5 months ago

                I quoted three of his comments from the mod log, yes. Three comments that were either deleted for incivility or got him banned for incivility. You don’t think his history of deletions/bans is relevant to a conversation where he’s complaining about being banned yet again?

                • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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                  5 months ago

                  No. I think those comments don’t show anything related to the current thread and their inclusion is like dragging up someone’s jaywalking ticket to show a history of manslaughter.

                  I think OP is upset and you are being reductive. So while they are not in a good place to be making off the cuff statements suggesting things about you in their last comment, yours have been, in my opinion, unhelpful and condescending.

      • Mystic Mushroom [Ze/Zir]@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        5 months ago

        You are an awful gatekeeping transphobic person. These views you are sharing are extremely transphobic and hurtful. Trans friendly communities ask people to use and respect neopronouns because respecting people’s identities makes them feel safe and happy, and not doing so can cause distress and dysphoria. You’re a fellow trans person, you should know better.

      • Jorunn (she/her)@piefed.blahaj.zone
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        5 months ago

        Most of what you are saying is a lie? No one was saying the attack helicopter or litterbox stuff, nor were we defending trolls. What we said is use neopronouns when requested, and report trolls as usual. Refer to people as they ask or ignore them, don’t feed trolls if you think someone is a troll.

        People kept engaging with the trolls rather than doing what we asked.

        Honestly, people have no idea how to engage with trolling these days (don’t).

        Edit: Oh look at your modlog history :/ not a great person are you

    • Taleya@aussie.zone
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      5 months ago

      Yeah that was the point i just blocked them. That shit also spilled into tumblr

      • Jorunn (she/her)@piefed.blahaj.zone
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        5 months ago

        He was banned from blåhaj back then, so I’m happy to say I’ve not really seen him since. Someone did share his odd recent ranting community he made where he wrote to himself about how evil and mean we are or something for asking people to either block/ignore/report or use the requested pronouns of other users. He’s obsessed apparently.

        • Taleya@aussie.zone
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          5 months ago

          Not generally but a rant post about mean trans people on lemmy bullying someone who is autistic over pronouns was doing the rounds . Specific references and wording were clearly puggling if you knew about the Drag debacle.

      • Norah (pup/it/she)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        Funny enough, I was actually assured that both the main admins at the time of the controversy with Drag were broadly onboard with my opinion - ie that I was willing to use Drag’s pronouns, but didn’t regard that as carte blanche to force people to call dragons real.

        Firstly, yeah, no one was trying to force him to call dragons real, he just kept screaming that at the top of his lungs and My God he’s STILL going. He very much equated being told he had to use a person’s stated pronouns, in this case “drag”, with being “forced” to call dragons real. I’d chase up the posts but I just can’t fluffing care anymore.

        You should never be in charge of anything else than your own diaper since you are unable to separate between being a mod and arguing with someone.

        Secondly, as someone that’s disabled and incontinent, this makes me so bloody depressed. Please be better than this when calling people out, it’s ableism to treat incontinence like this. There’s a reason that roughly 70% of incon folks (depending on the study) would rather have a limb amputated than continue to be incontinent.

        (Edit: To clarify, the second quote here was the OP of this post, not PJ.)

        • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
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          5 months ago

          Funny enough, I was actually assured that both the main admins at the time of the controversy with Drag were broadly onboard with my opinion - ie that I was willing to use Drag’s pronouns, but didn’t regard that as carte blanche to force people to call dragons real.

          I’m happy to admit that my personal views on neopronouns have evolved from “somewhat skeptical, but I’ll go along with it” initially to “fully on board” as I’ve learned more about the topic directly from other trans folk on Lemmy and irl. 💗

        • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          Firstly, yeah, no one was trying to force him to call dragons real, he just kept screaming that at the top of his lungs and My God he’s STILL going. He very much equated being told he had to use a person’s stated pronouns, in this case “drag”, with being “forced” to call dragons real. I’d chase up the posts but I just can’t fluffing care anymore.

          He’s still butthurt about that for months afterwards. He’ll be on his deathbed smirking “heh, owned those leftists who tried to make me a better person. I sure showed them.”

          Secondly, as someone that’s disabled and incontinent, this makes me so bloody depressed. Please be better than this when calling people out, it’s ableism to treat incontinence like this. There’s a reason that roughly 70% of incon folks (depending on the study) would rather have a limb amputated than continue to be incontinent.

          No no you don’t understand, he has chronic pain so that justifys all his actions and words, he’s always right!! /s

          When my arm was at its worst before reconstructing my shoulder twice, I often wanted to just chop it off. The amputation would have been better than the constant nerve pain that I still feel every now and again.

          PugJesus probably is chronically ill. I’m not going to play the disability Olympics. He is allowed to state it and not required to share his medical history.

          But man it feels like he uses it as a fallback anytime someone calls him out on anything.

          • Norah (pup/it/she)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            5 months ago

            The second quote was the OP of this post calling out PJ. I wouldn’t bother with trying to correct PJ anymore. I also don’t really give a fluff if he’s disabled or not, it’s not carte blanche to do whatever you want.

            • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              5 months ago

              If you correct PJ, he’ll call you a fascist as he just defends genocide, neoliberalism, and anything that might stop fascism.

              And yeah, it’s not carte blanche. It can explain but not excuse actions. I have 4 different mental health issues and like 3 physical ones. Sometimes I get crabby, very emotional, unable to control my body and how I feel.

              But after I calm down I apologize and try to do better. I try to make right what I fucked up.

          • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            5 months ago

            uses it as a fallback

            Most people, I’m coming to realize, never really believe in anything. It’s all tribalistic bullshit, so the invocation of an identity, of group membership, is effectively the same as or maybe better than a moral statement of right/wrong to them.

        • zecg@lemmy.world
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          5 months ago

          He very much equated being told he had to use a person’s stated pronouns, in this case “drag”

  • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    5 months ago

    PTB.

    He legitimately seemed to be going through something the last few days though, he was picking fights with everyone in a bunch of threads and I ended up catching strays along with a bunch of others

  • KombatWombat@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    PugJesus is apparently banned from this instance, so they are unable to defend themselves on this thread. They did talk about it in this comment chain for context.

    Allegedly OP downvoted several posts from the community in question after having their comment removed and PugJesus banned them from that particular community in response. PugJesus pointed out that if it was an emotional overreaction to the comment, they could have just as easily mass-banned OP from the other communities they moderate instead of just that one. And while it’s not relevant to this judgement, it does seem like OP’s source citation agrees with PugJesus’s “western propaganda” that there is evidence of sexual assault, but not enough to call it systematic.

    So I guess a few questions for OP:

    Did you downvote posts from that community?

    If so, how many? And do you not consider that participation?

    If not, can you think of a reason why PugJesus banned you from just that specific community?

    And for clarification around the removed comment, it’s not clear what you were calling lies/western propaganda. Did you mean just the BBC article that PugJesus linked, or also the NBC article cited by your source, or the central UN report discussed by them?

    Also, let me know if I got something wrong about the chain of events leading up to this. It’s tricky to jump between a bunch of links and keep it straight.

    • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      it does seem like OP’s source citation agrees with PugJesus’s “western propaganda” that there is evidence of sexual assault, but not enough to call it systematic.

      PJ does this a lot. The original post article was claiming that SA was being used as a ‘genocidal strategy’, which is an extremely bold claim and would need to show not only evidence of SA happening, but a coordinated and premeditated intent in order to drive Israelis from Israel.

      The pull-quotes PJ is pointing to are acknowledging instances of SA - and really only acknowledging what little evidence beyond first-person accounting there is - but explicitly not ‘systemic and coordinated’ SA.

      OP was pointing this out, even in his replies with PJ that he linked. PJ was ignoring the distinction and trying to bait a stronger reaction, and ended up banning OP as a result. He tried doing a similar thing with me a few days ago while defending/downplaying atrocities committed by the mujaheddin just so he could reframe responsibility for the Taliban around Pakistan.

      I’m usually pretty lax with mod actions, because they’re free to protect their communities they way they want to. But PJ has been on a tear the last few days, and was clearly not in a place to be acting as a mod. He’s been starting fights and baiting people all week and deserves some mandatory time off.

      • KombatWombat@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        PJ does this a lot. The original post article was claiming that SA was being used as a ‘genocidal strategy’, which is an extremely bold claim and would need to show not only evidence of SA happening, but a coordinated and premeditated intent in order to drive Israelis from Israel.

        No, the article stated “Israeli legal and gender experts” are claiming something like that, as reflected in the title. It also mentions “Hamas has denied its forces committed sexual violence against women or mistreated female hostages.” The article is reporting on the claim, the evidence used to support it, and the limited amount the UN has actually been able to verify. It distinctly doesn’t confirm it, because as you pointed out the burden of proof is high and doing so would be very irresponsible when it cannot be substantiated. PJ meanwhile doesn’t claim anything more than the article does, at least in their post. In fact, it looks like the entire post including the title is directly lifted from the article.

        The pull-quotes PJ is pointing to are acknowledging instances of SA - and really only acknowledging what little evidence beyond first-person accounting there is - but explicitly not ‘systemic and coordinated’ SA.

        Agreed, neither article proves the Israeli claim. The UN report does disprove the Hamas claim that none of their forces are committing sexual violence, but it does not prove that it is systemic as the Israeli group asserts. That is an important distinction. I haven’t seen PJ actually claim that it was systemic but they could be implying it by seemingly trying to use that quote as a contradiction to OP saying that it’s an Israeli lie.

        OP was pointing this out, even in his replies with PJ that he linked. PJ was ignoring the distinction and trying to bait a stronger reaction, and ended up banning OP as a result.

        It’s true that PJ didn’t acknowledge the distinction. They may not have realized that was the source of the pushback. But regardless, I still don’t think that’s enough to say the ban was retaliatory. Mass-downvoting a community’s posts is reason enough to ban someone from it. It’s essentially brigading and even one user can be pretty disruptive with small communities. That’s why I wanted to know if OP had been acting in a way that qualifies for a legitimate ban or not.

        PJ has been on a tear the last few days, and was clearly not in a place to be acting as a mod. He’s been starting fights and baiting people all week and deserves some mandatory time off.

        I don’t follow Lemmy politics enough to remember much of PJ’s history other than that they are a big enough contributor to be a familiar name and that they were involved in some drama with 196. If they’re going through something recently that’s making them lash out, then I hope it gets better soon. They didn’t seem particularly irritable from this interaction though.

        • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          5 months ago

          It’s true that PJ didn’t acknowledge the distinction. They may not have realized that was the source of the pushback. But regardless, I still don’t think that’s enough to say the ban was retaliatory.

          PJ listed ‘sexual assault denier’ as the reason for the ban, seems pretty clear that - at the very least - this interaction was top-of-mind when he was issuing it.

          I haven’t seen PJ actually claim that it was systemic but they could be implying it by seemingly trying to use that quote as a contradiction to OP saying that it’s an Israeli lie.

          This is the thing I’m pointing to as a pattern with him:

          • Felix says “anything that follows ‘Israel says’ is usually a lie”
          • PJ jumps on it and quotes the UN finding that SA occurred (leaving out the second part of the original claim by Israel which is addressed later in the UN report that they didn’t find it ‘systemic’)
          • Felix responds with the drop site article that discusses that exact claim (that the SA was systemic)
          • PJ ignores the topic of the article, jumps on the specific part that mentions the Dinah Project, pulls the commonly sighted quote from it that says they found ‘patterns’ of SA (but the next sentence says they could not verify any instances due to Israeli obstruction)
          • Felix then responds with the item in the article he was referring when he linked to it (that the UN does not have evidence of systemic sexual assault). Note that the quote he is pulling is referring to a statement made by a top UN official, not to the link PJ is harping on
          • PJ then incorrectly attributes that statement to the article he is talking about, which is the one felix’s article is criticizing as being used by Zionists as evidence of systemic violence despite that report saying explicitly that they did not have evidence of systemic violence, only “patterns indicative of sexual violence” but of which individual instances could not be verified due to obstruction

          Whether or not PJ went into that interaction knowing felix’s intent is hard to say, but it should have been clear to him by the end that there was no actual disagreement being expressed. In the end, PJ mis-represents the source material and doubles-down on his accusation of SA denial in his ban reasoning in the modlog. An interaction that should have ended in clarity instead ends in him banning the user, if not for the stated reason in the log, at-best for downvoting posts in another comm.

          It’s a pattern with PJ that he dives headlong into an argument making an assumption about a user’s intent, and then when the user clarifies their position against his accusation, he doubles-down by either misrepresenting that user’s statements or by twisting source material to fit the accusation being made. By the end of that argument, all he’s doing is accusing felix of lying by mis-attributing the source material he’s using. He’s being unnecessarily hostile when, in the end, there wasn’t an actual substantive disagreement between them.

          I don’t follow Lemmy politics enough to remember much of PJ’s history other than that they are a big enough contributor to be a familiar name and that they were involved in some drama with 196.

          He’s a prolific poster/commenter and a mod of probably a dozen communities. I don’t care about the history comms he spends a lot of time in, but I do often see him pop up in political gossip/snark communities like ‘tankyjerk’ and ‘meanwhileongrad’. Most of his original content he posts is fine, if not good - but he often gets into it with other users on politics and does exactly this kind of rage baiting, occasionally posting it to the political snark comms if he’s worked up enough about it.

      • StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world
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        5 months ago

        But PJ has been on a tear the last few days, and was clearly not in a place to be acting as a mod. He’s been starting fights and baiting people all week and deserves some mandatory time off.

        Hasn’t this always been his behaviour? I blocked him and his alts long ago for these very reasons.

        • anarchiddy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          Jokes aside, it was on another level recently. I feel like i’ve seen him go through a wave of activity like this before, so I guess even this episode might not be unique for him. But I can’t imagine he has time to have been doing anything other than lemmy just based on his activity for the last 3-4 days. 170 comments (not including posts) over the last day alone, many of which are a part of deep, 20-30 comment long arguments where nothing substantial is communicated other than anger and disgust.

          We usually only talk about 1 or 2 offending comments by users in this comm, but in pugjesus’s case it’s been near constant antagonism for days. Most people would have enough after a few hours but I gotta hand it to him - he’s got some serious stamina.

    • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
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      5 months ago

      That’s a bit too far imo. He’s just a true blue liberal that can’t handle the crumbling reality that is the incoming NWO and the revelation that American exceptionalism was always a lie.

      • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        5 months ago

        I mean he’s had years to learn better but continues to shitpost about rome like a weirdo on Twitter does.

        If he spent the energy starting slap fights online and making memes only the people hyper focused on Rome find remotely chuckle worthy on improving himself, he’d be a loved icon.

  • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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    5 months ago

    Looks like they went on a whole ban spree. Some folks are not equipped to operate outside communities they control and moderate.

  • SmilingSolaris@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    Brother told me he will keep attacking leftists who “didn’t vote for harm reduction” until he gets an “olive branch” from those leftist ghosts living in his head.

    • Eugene V. Debs' Ghost@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      “We need unity”

      “Alright let’s stand side by side, no one should be subjected to harm by governments due to their identity or existence.”

      “Wow, I can’t believe you would say such a thing! This is why the left never wins, they have such lofty goals as abiding by the Geneva convention and the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights. You ruined leftism!”

  • pulsewidth@lemmy.world
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    5 months ago

    PTB.

    However, imo blocking him is a double-edged sword as he posts so prolifically you end up wiping out heaps of Lemmy content that normal people engage with, and Lemmy is fairly small.

    He’s made 11,942 (!) posts in 733 days. That’s over 16 posts a day you drop by blocking him, I only looked on his main account. Didn’t count his secondary db0.

    • StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world
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      I blocked him and any alts of his that I could identify back when he was frequently trying to get .world to defederate from .ml. The decrease in content is unnoticeable but the decrease in insufferable manufactured drama is massive.

      • pulsewidth@lemmy.world
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        Ok you were right, I kept an eye out for his content for the next week or so and it was all stuff I could live without.

      • davel@lemmy.ml
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        He used to try to get .world to defederate from .ml.
        He still do, but he used to, too.