So Android is pointless now?
No, really. If I’m gonna be dragged kicking and screaming into the walled garden, why would I go with Google’s joke of an ecosystem instead of much nicer and better integrated Apple garden?I might as well start carrying one of those weird branded ultra-tiny laptops from AliExpress and some used, older iPhone for the 2 apps I need.
Fuck it. Throw out the baby, the bathwater, the bathtub, the whole damn thing. Fuuuuck it.i have a feeling that google largely gave up on making a decent phone for a while, all they want is your data, plus to put thier AI into everything to offset the cost of using AI.
To be fair, they never cared about making a decent phone. They have always just wanted your data. They are a marketing company and you are the product up for sale.
that was pretty much clear years ago, when they moved onto to thier inhouse chips.
Google has been been cracking down on installing .apk’s on your phone for years and they’re getting more and more aggressive about it. It’s not a question of if they’ll disallow it completely, but when.
It’s already extremely tedious. Back in the Android 2.3 days (oh, good old Gingerbread) you could just get an APK and install it, but those times are long gone.
Years ago they threatened the developer of Total Commander to remove his app from the PlayStore unless he patched out an APK install feature, so he was forced to do that.
Now another example: Try to install eBay on a phone that is not passing device integrity. It is not listed on the PlayStore because your device doesn’t pass safety checks. You can grab an APK and install it, but the OS will check if the app has been installed through the PlayStore and if it hasn’t, it will complain and close itself.
GrapheneOS has patched that bullshit out, btw.
And this behaviour happens with all apps where the developer has enabled the “App Integrity” option, which is heavily pushed as a super-great security feature. So developers might just enable that feature, not being fully aware of the implications.
As you can see, it’s one method at a time, slowly but surely, until Google fully controls the ecosystem. The intention behind that is pretty clear: They don’t want people to have AdAway and Revanced, they want money and user data. And they also want you to login to the PlayStore, get hooked on their stupid daily points challenges and spend your hard-earned money on virtual crap.
This is textbook enshittification, it will only get worse from here on.
AdAway can be easily emulated using a DNS server…
Yeah I carry that DNS server around with me in the other pocket /s
Idk why you’re meming, it’s easy as hell to run it on device, or you can just use dns.adguard.com instead
To be fair, unless you’re using a private, controllable DNS with a frontend interface (like NextDNS, Pihole, etc) – DNS ad blocking is “all or nothing”. Those apps let you control which apps and services and domains come through.
I’m aware, I choose to use the adguard one but I’ve used the on-device ones in the past
Oddly enough your phone is more than powerful enough to do that.
The people coming up with these ideas should be lynched.
As Samsung is blocking custom ROMs with OneUI 8, I seriously need to look into alternatives. Does anyone have good experience with a custom ROM on a S25 Ultra? The only thing I really worry about are my banking apps. I need those to work.
I just use my banking through the web UI. Why do you need an app for it? If it’s for check deposits, try using an old phone as a dedicated banking device.
If you don’t use apps that depend on Google services, consider deGoogling your phone.
true too, i use my banking app mostly on the PC anyways, because i can just block thier ability with adblockers, tracking,etc.
I use /e/OS, my office mate uses Graphene. All our banking apps (I have like 3, lol) work flawlessly. However, once you go down this road, there is always a chance that they stop working in the future, as Google introduces more bullshit like this or Play Integrity.
Just use apps like Hermit or Native Alpha and use the banking website like an app.
people might have to considered a stock android just to use the bank apps on a cheap phone, and one for personal use.
Wait, what the hell?
I can’t believe this, who the hell are they to decide what I should install?
They are welcome to curate their own store, but sideloading concerns only the user.
Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.
Fucking corrupt American oligarchs.
Hopefully, the EU and other jurisdictions block this.
This is very similar to the notarization process Apple introduced to comply with the EU requirement of allowing third-party stores, and yet the EU doesn’t seem concerned (maybe because Apple did not allow third-party stores in the first place, will it be different for Google?)
Not an Apple user, so I didn’t know about this. Extremely disappointing.
It really does seem avoiding any and all American services/products (to the extent possible, with exceptions where reasonable) is the only way forward.
I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the US is a ethical, cultural and even economic dead end. Yes even economic, only a fool would believe intense corruption and broad support of criminality and corruption among the population will not have any negative effects in the future.
You think this wouldn’t happen elsewhere?
It’s not just an American thing, it’s an asshoke thing, and those people are everywhere, and will always find a way.
even the OP phone is considering doing a soft-blocking of bootloader
Of course it can happen elsewhere.
Just US has a massive influence on tech platforms, and they are currently under-going an oligarch takeover (oligarch influence was already bad irrespective of whether the far right or centre right was in power).
Mind you I am not anti-American. I have largely always defended the US as a matter of pragmatism (it is the largest and most influential democracy-leaning country with a measure of respect for human right). US has done really bad things, but they have done good things as well. I can’t say the same about say China or Russia.
Yes the largest economy in the world is an economic dead end. Do you know why so many countries are sucking off Trump? They want access to American dollars. And no diversification doesn’t work because what do you replace America with, there isn’t some untapped multi trillion dollar economy just sitting there. It sucks and I don’t get why the world let it happen but it is where we are and it we’ll hurt to change it and nobody seems like they want to do the work.
I clarified what I meant by economic dead end. It’s not going to happen tomorrow or even in ten years. But absolute corruption, rollback of democracy and a population where a large number of people support crime and corruption will have a caustic effect in the long term. It’s a straw man to suggest that I was claiming an immense collapse in American economic might.
At one point the “sun never set on the British empire” and now the British empire is no more. There are also examples of economies that were once top end, but are now closer to middle income.
I don’t think you understand the extent to which American “soft power” is being eroded right now. What countries have you lived in? What languages other than English do you speak? Do you have close friends in other countries?
Of course America is major economy, that doesn’t mean the rest of the world doesn’t exist. Just look at the state of Chinese products in the early 2000s and where they are now.
People don’t like thugs and liars, especially ones who are constantly parroting polemics about “freedom for this and that” while engaging in criminality and opposing democracy.
us has made every country dependant on it, which is why the brics was created o offeset it, but it isnt doing really good right now.
Looks like I’m gonna just carry a stock phone, give it nothing but the most basic information and tether it to a laptop over a VPN. They stop tethering? I’ll use VOIP and a hotspot.
Welcome back to 2011. Maybe messenger bags will come back into fashion in foss culture.
Run Lineage on your phone of choice.
Or if you’re paranoid, a Pixel with Graphene.
…What about after September 2026?
Well, there’s one teensy tiny caveat.
Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it’s a certified device.
So, in theory… no gapps, no approval necessary?
Open devs just have to have two versions, as many already do, one signed with Google’s spyware and one on github/fdroid with nothing.
So install Lineage OS without Google services, got it.
Seems about right, for as long as they can.
I’d even consider the possibility of “google-free” phones showing up on kickstarter in two or three years for the tinkerer market. That market exists. Raspberrypi didn’t buy itself. We are here!
Google says it’s no different than checking IDs at the airport.
You’re not a fucking airport, Google!
Also we bought and own the fucking plane! Don’t tell us where we can fly to!
i dont need to show id to fly domestic…
Ah, but Google is never flying domestic. They sell your data internationally.
I heard that they’re probably going to be using the Google Play store and probably similar modules to play protect to enforce this. So the question becomes will disabling the Google Play store bypass this? It outright kills play protect dialogue as well as its app disabling capability as a whole since play protect is part of Google Play store.
So I guess my next phone will be a Chinese phone. Even if it spies on me, I’ll have the freedom to install whatever I want from anywhere.
The Chinese have a golden window of opportunity. Let’s hope they don’t mess this up.
I guess if GrapheneOS finally gets spoken to by a manufacturer interested in filling this market gap, that would be awesome too.
Hell, maybe it could be a chinese manufacturer.
GrapheneOS is currently actively talking to a major Android OEM in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. If that succeeds GrapheneOS will be able to run on non-Pixel devices.
Oh please let this work out
Timewindow 2026, perhaps 2027 for release of such devices. Talks have been going on for a few months, if it wasn’t working out at all that probably should’ve been clear already.
So you either need to put a custom/global rom on it, get the hk version, or pay like 20% more for a global version.
Bonus problems, AT&T in the US kicked off the international phone versions a while back. They worked fine. I have a bunch of leftover G4 international versions that they up and banned one day around 2020. The terrible US version remained allowed.
LOL. Chinese phones are way worse, they simply block installations of “unsanctioned” apps with no workaround.
My wife is Chinese and I used to live there for 7 years, it’s an absolute privacy nightmare.
If you dont want to put a custom rom on it (which is becoming increasingly difficult), you’re can buy a HK version off taobao.
Way easier to install a custom rom
Apart from Xiaomi and OnePlus, which are released for international audiences, I’m not aware of a single Chinese phone with active rom development.
Honor, Huawei, Poco, Oppo, …the list goes on.
Oppo = OnePlus
Huawei bootlaoders can’t be unlocked, so absolutely no custom ROM there.
Honor bootlaoders can’t be unlocked, so absolutely no custom ROM there.
Poco seems possible for now, never used one of their phones, but well good that there’s something possible.
So many people don’t understand this at all. China is still the same as when the tanks were rolling over college students.
I have a Xiaomi 14 pro, I just have to tap the correct button to install an outside app. (It’s in Chinese, even though the phone is set to English, so i have no idea what it says but it gets me there).
If you bought it outside of China that might be a thing, for Chinese phones it shows a cancel button only. There is a confirm button, but it’s greyed out and not clickable.
So I bought it from giztop, they take the Chinese version of the phone, get the Google play store on there and get it set to English, plus a couple other things, so that it’s easier for you to get started with. I bought this because I had thought they’d make a global version and I could flash that rom when that happened, and only deal with some Chinese sections of the phone for a short while, but for some reason they didn’t with this specific phone, they did for the 14 ultra.
I busted the phone out again to see the popup I was talking about, but actually one of the (semi) recent updates made it so the buttons are english. I am allowed to just install things with a few pop-up warnings and the phone does some kind of check. I wonder if it’s because it’s an “unlocked” phone (I don’t know if it’s the same in China where a carrier locks the phone to their network and has their own shit installed if you buy it from them) or what.
Either way, interesting.
I am very happy with my One Plus 13 phone. It has better hardware and was at a better price than Samsung’s S25.
Samsung used to be good. I used to always buy samsung but since I can’t affort a “high end” device, I go with the medium end ones, and samsung medium end ones are terrible for the price. So instead of getting a medium end samsung, you can get something better and cheaper on another brand
Samsung always seems to have the paradigm of good hardware with shitty software, and with their recent phones they seem to manage to enshittify both.
I first read the original report from Android Authority thinking it would only be an additional hurdle for third-party stores and developers, but I’m now thinking that it would potentially block the use of ReVanced
Yeah I don’t know what they’ll block yet but I’m already assuming some of my apps will be blocked. It’s pretty terrible news. I really didn’t want to have to hunt down a phone that was compatible with alternative OS’s.
From my understanding, it will only allow apps that were registered, so since ReVanced uses identical package names to the patched apps, it probably won’t work unless they start using ReVanced-specific package names that are tied to their identity. But that would allow Google to block these package names (or ban ReVanced completely) if say, Spotify or YouTube complain about them.
if say, Spotify or YouTube complain about them.
… who owns YouTube?
Yeah, they’re going to block ReVanced.
Unless revanced somehow gets the APKs resigned it will almost certainly destroy revanced.
What if I come up with a random package name, like “online.discuss.jim3692”, register that name and a keypair, and then build ReVanced using that name and keys?
Because Google will find out and revoke the key
What if I keep the apks for me and my family, instead of publicly releasing them.
This is probably similar to the state of Piped and Invidious. Google tries to kill them, so we are hosting private instances, instead of relying on public ones.
google can just revoke it if they dont like it. they certainly want to become apple down the line.
and any apk installed eventually, and custom OS, that doesnt come from the google store front. im not tech savvy but im using apk of many apps right now. if only someone can develop a “storefront” where it seperate from google.
I mean, there’s fdroid…. For now
If you’re technical enough to sideload Android apps, you’re probably technical enough to install Graphene too.
If you have a compatible phone. As long as the allow those compatible phones to be made.
Sidelading apps on android is never technical anyone could install an apk. It’s just the safety that you need to be technical when doing so. Also fuck my phone which doesn’t allow unlockibg bootloader
At least on Samsung phones, they used to have you open the Settings (this is enough to deter 50% of non technical users) and look for an allow button which is protected by two fullscreen danger warnings (there goes the other 50%)
Mine is vivo, and there is no known way of safely unlocking bootloader
If google is gonna ban sideloading, surely they will lock their bootloaders first.
Leaving in the bootloader unlock gives people who want to retain sideloading a place to retreat to that google still ultimately controls. Which is more appealing to a sociopathic corporation than cutting people off entirely
I see it this way.
Google wants everyone using gapps to be identified but isn’t outright saying you can’t use Android without certification.
“Google says that only apps with verified identities will be installable on certified Android devices, which is virtually every Android-based device—if it has Google services on it, it’s a certified device”
So LOS and Graphene may get off the hook on this and be able to install whatever non-google apps they need. By default, neither have google services.
Sucks for the gapps people, but, I mean. They knew it was coming, right?
But the point is, manufacturers will comply because otherwise their phones won’t sell.
Looks to me like they’ve been complying for 20 years or so. No real change needed on their part.
*if you have a Pixel device (that aren’t that great, actually).
Pixels are good, what are you talking about?
For the price, hardware-wise are underwhelming (see benchmarks).
I daily drive a Pixel 8 Pro and it’s never felt underpowered to me. I have no need or desire to look at benchmarks.
It’s a fair point to make to say they’re expensive, but that’s not really relevant to their actual quality or performance, both of which are fine. And the used market seems pretty good for these things, too.
A pixel phone is something like 9 months of minimum wage in my country.
If you can’t have Graphene or Calyx (once they’re back up) there’s still /e/OS, they also got a 1-Click Installer for a few devices. As well as a how-to for several hundred. And iodeOS I guess.
…if bootloader unlocking will be allowed…
*if google /OEMs still provide drivers for AOSP (check calyxos blog, google stopped doing it and it is killing custom ROMS)
I have no issue with my older Pixel devices. You’re use-case isn’t everyone’s use-case.
Even I was able to get GrapheneOS running on my old Pixel >.>
No one talking about how this could completely annihilate open source .apk development? First off the lead dev has to get identity verified to get a key, which will reduce the number of devs willing to push through friction to start a project. Then when the key is issued and it is posted to the repository, what keeps anyone from grabbing it and using it for another repo? We’ll they have an official app registration of some kind, ok, what about version control? Does every new version have to be registered before it can be loaded and tested? Same for forks?
This is about to be a terrible mess, Google is assassinating FOSS with this.
You distribute the code without your key and a built package that is signed. This isn’t exactly rocket science.
Anyone who forks the code will have to use their own key to install a package they built.
It’s just unnecessary red tape.
How will fdroid work
Fdroid itself and every package they host will have to be signed.
Maybe there are still workarounds, like enabling dev mode on your phone, but still tedious.
It’s just unnecessary red tape.
Which will reduce the number of people using foss apks, which will in turn, reduce the motivation, and then the number, of foss apk developers.
It will kill everyone that is playing around with the phones. I have done a couple mobile projects where I just sideloaded the package I created to quickly test it and to demo it to people. Now that I can’t do that why would I develop for your platform by choice.
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This is complete BS
Google can get fucked. I feel like there will be a nontrivial market for de-googled or older and unlocked Android phones after this. If they manage to kill off custom roms with their previous AOSP rug pull I’ll go back to using a (subpar) Linux phone or maybe even one of those cheap flip phones.
I started joking that my next phone will be a Nokia 3310. I feel more and more each day like that should just be my actual next phone
Funny enough, Nokia started making cheap flip phones and some others in that form factor again. My daughter asked to replace her smartphone with one of the flip phones. It was only $70, so I got her one. It’s build quality is what you would expect, but it works and has GPS at least.
They even actually re-released a version of the 3310 a few years back. I still have my old Garmin knocking about, wonder if it’s got updated maps if I got a model without GPS.
In case you’re curious, the Nokia flip phone I got my daughter is the Nokia 2780 Flip.
It even runs WhatsApp and Signal now, or at least, that was the plan a while back. And it’s only like 60 euros or something. Perfect for multiple day festivals and camping trips at least.
It no longer runs WhatsApp, actually. The new version of the OS (KaiOS which is a fork of the dead Firefox OS) broke compatibility and Meta apparently decided to not bother with supporting it.
Which model is that exactly? I’d love a “dumb” phone with Signal.
I’m confused. I read an article about the new 3310 getting the ability to install apps, a long time ago. I found an article on how to do so, but it doesn’t look like the 3310 screen in the screenshots but a general android OS. I thought it had a simplified OS, either their own or a stripped down android (unsure) as it has a tiny screen.
It’s the Nokia 3310 4G model according to this article. But it might be a generic article in which they have the phone model automatically generated by the one you search for?
There’s more and more people who feel just like you do. I’m so exhausted of all these companies being predatory and anti consumer. I’m the type to stand my ground and abstain or find alternatives, but it feels like there’s 5 people who don’t care and 4 people who will just let it go for every person willing to boycott bullshit.
Yes there are dozens of people who care. The vast majority of people never sideload.
I’m making a statement about companies in general. People are just so willing to bend over and take it. In my mind people used to have more gumption, but I’m probably overestimating how much was individuals vs how the media portrayed things.
Feels like if Upton Sinclair released “the jungle” today we’d all collectively say “oh well, guess we’re eating rats and formaldehyde.”
Don’t worry we can just install Graphene OS on Pixel phones, there is no problem with my plan !
feels funny that you have to buy a phone from google to get around google’s actions…
I’m sure it’s just a fortuitous coincidence and nothing to be worried about
As an iPhone guy, I always thought, what apps am I missing? It was mostly emulators. Then Apple allowed them, and I ask the question again.
Oh yeah, we have Delta, why doesn’t Android have anything like that? So, in a nutshell, I can uninstall Delta right now. App gone, games gone, saves gone, it’s all gone. No longer have any trace of it on my iPhone. Go to the App Store and download it. Empty library. Got to start over, right? Wrong. Go into Settings, connect Google Drive. It’s now downloading my games, my saves, my settings. Everything back where I was. Would be so cool if it were on all the platforms, so a game started on one could be picked up and played on another. Not necessarily Android <==> iOS, but more like phone <==> computer/tablet.
Yeah, so anyway, what can’t I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?
I get it’s a slippery slope and future implications. I get that. I’m just not seeing the issue now.
Also, it seems like Google has taken away all the things that would convince you not to get an iPhone. They took your headphone jack (though an Android was the first to do so). They took your microSD card slot. The tech always sucked, no one tried to make it better; past 16 or maybe 32GB the write speeds were too low to be usable. Now they’re coming for your sideloading? Honestly what is the argument for staying?
NewPipe
I have a feeling newpipe is one of those apps that you won’t be able to side load…
what can’t I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?
On the Android world, there are various Firefox forks with privacy enhancements. Such an example is IronFox. These apps are not listed on Play Store, and are, instead, distributed through F-Droid.
Besides this, there is a big difference between the policies of Play Store and F-Droid. Play Store takes your compiled blob, runs some security tests, signs it and publishes it. F-Droid, on the other hand, requires that all the source code is public and compiles the app.
This allows the users to be sure that the apps cannot be tampered by their developers. While, on Play Store, devs can easily submit applications that aren’t built based on the published source code.
Yeah, so anyway, what can’t I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?
When I upgraded my Samsung to a OnePlus13, Samsung’s app that manages the tag device flat out had an error message telling me that it could only work on Samsung phones. 5 minutes later I found an open source app allowed me to use the Galaxy tag that I paid for on my new phone. Samsung has some of the best engineers in the world so they were 100% lying or intentionally trying to brick my tag device to either force me to buy their overpriced phones…
And that is just one example. I use tons of open source apps. For almost any useful app you can think of, there is a free open source version. Premium-YouTube? Newpipe is ad-free with all the premium features for free.
I ended up with an iPhone due to their music making ecosystem being quite robust with several third party plugins available and an audio engine that Android is still dreaming of and have not missed anything from Android. Now there really doesn’t seem to be much of a difference other than feeling way more secure on my iPhone. I love that they vet app developers so hard so I don’t end up with some horrid app on my phone
Not actually true, there are still some scam apps on the App Store. As long as they have recurring subscriptions, Apple doesn’t care too much. It’s the free apps that are just as good, they will bury, even if they have users.
As far as music, I agree. I use Apple Music because it’s the best streaming service for my needs and they pay artists better than the other big one. But on iOS you also have Marvis Pro and MusicHarbor. I couldn’t get that experience on Android. The actual Apple Music app is great on Android, and it has gotten better, but on iOS I still prefer Marvis, which is a frontend to Music.app.
what can’t I get in the Play Store or the App Store that I actually want?
For me, it’s an independence from Google thing and a privacy thing. I am logged in to the Play Store on my phone, but I try to get whatever I can from F-Droid. On other devices like my TV, tablet and e-reader, I’m not even logged in and use F-Droid and the Aurora Store instead. Not having to rely on Google is great.
Honestly what is the argument for staying?
There are still Android phones with headphone jacks
Yes, my Android phone (Galaxy S10) has a headphone jack and a microSD card reader and a fingerprint reader. And it’s a flaghship. But it’s a 2019 flagship. (Still does things better than my iPhone 16 Pro Max, which is Apple’s flagship from last year, and still their current flagship model. Most notably, the Android keyboard is better.)
Do any new flagship Android phones have headphone jacks? Not that I need one. I’m 100% on board with AirPods. Love them. I own headphones but it’s a lesser experience. I have some decent (not great) over the ear Sennheisers (they were around $50, so not audiophile range, probably the brand’s entry model) and they’re good enough, but the AirPods are a better experience in many ways. But anyway, mid-range Android phones have headphone jacks, but they’re underpowered compared to flagships, and Android flagships are underpowered next to iPhones of the same year. So while granted, a mid-range 2025 Android likely outperforms my S10 across the board, I have no reason to upgrade what is essentially my backup phone.
Do any new flagship Android phones have headphone jacks?
Less and less. Sony still does and Asus still does on their ROG Phones, but dropped it for the Zenfone 12 so not sure how long they’ll last with it still (I love my Zenfone 9, so a bit sad about it).
But anyway, mid-range Android phones have headphone jack
Shockingly little nowadays. If I search between 300-500 euro, I can only find Sony, Poco and two Samsungs (A25 and Xcover 7).
it’s an independence from Google thing and a privacy thing. I am logged in to the Play Store on my phone
Uh.
For stuff like banking apps. It’s not perfect, I know
Get Hermit and use the bank website
Not a bad suggestion, but I’m not sure that’d work. Online payments are tightly integrated with the banks apps here. I can try it though
what can’t I get in the Play store that I actually want
Well, for starters, versions of apps without Google play store tracking. Or without GMS/Firebase so the apps aren’t constantly being awakened whenever someone else decides.
Or old apps that Google has decided you don’t need anymore because they “won’t run” on current versions of Android, yet work fine.
Or, any app category that Google doesn’t permit you to publish to play, like my system wide ad blockers.
Or apps that aren’t malware, since Play store is the single greatest source of malware.
AdAway isn’t in the Play Store? That was my ad blocker back in the day… on, like, Jellybean and KitKat.
Of course, I wouldn’t be surprised if Google has since banned ad blockers. They threaten their business model after all.
