Starting with this post:
https://sh.itjust.works/post/44999037
Continues here:
https://sh.itjust.works/post/45035437
More posts discussing the fallout:
Dbzer0 admin claiming Uyghur genocide is ‘overblown and misrepresented’
Dbzer0 admin casually defending Uyghur genocide denial because “libs worse”, yikes
Banned from meanwhileongrad for “No db0 allowed”.
Removed false allegations against goat from a post on db0
Another anarchist tankie did a write-up of the situation
More links: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52444570
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/329886
Just going to add another post discussing this; I did a write-up of the constant use of ‘degenerate’ as an insult specifically in the MoG comm, posted on hexbear, and cited the inciting incident as the latest people to get dubbed ‘tankies’ by this crew.
It’s a fascist dogwhistle, especially the way its use is normalized on MoG. Their specialty is in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point, and consequently all abuse is then fair game. Ironic that they immediately started trying to flip the script with accusations of ‘tankie bar’
Ironic that they immediately started trying to flip the script with accusations of ‘tankie bar’
It was pointed out that in that very fucking thread there was Holodomor and Uyghur genocide denial, which would make, by the same argument as the ‘Nazi bar’ accusations being leveled, DB0 a tankie bar.
ill add it to the post thank you
Thanks! the only correction I have is that I’m actually an anarchist, I feel like a broken record sometimes having to explain that.
Thanks! the only correction I have is that I’m actually an anarchist, I feel like a broken record sometimes having to explain that.
It might be the constant defence of the PRC, the repeating of Russian propaganda on Ukraine, and simping for an instance that literally removes posts which point out genocide by fascist polities which are painted red, which cause people to correct identify you elsewise.
Believe it or not, passing your online purity tests about geopolitics is not what makes someone an anarchist.
Your use of ‘tankie’ is just ‘disagrees with me from the left’ and it’s been on full display.
as I said earlier:
Their specialty is in turning everyone they disagree with into a ‘tankie’ that can’t possibly have a point, and consequently all abuse is then fair game.
Believe it or not, passing your online purity tests about geopolitics is not what makes someone an anarchist.
Yes, it is quite apparently that you regard playing apologist for fascist states performing genocide as completely in-line with anarchism, bizarre as it is. I guess ‘purity testing’ is ‘questioning whether simping for fascism is really compatible with anarchist thought’, especially considering that you openly support .ml’s removal of anything critical of fascist states.
Your use of ‘tankie’ is just ‘disagrees with me from the left’ and it’s been on full display.
Ah, so defending genocide is a leftist position now. It must be the People’s Genocide.
Wild how every argument with you speedruns straight to hyper-fixating on what Americas enemies are doing.
you regard playing apologist for fascist states performing genocide as completely in-line with anarchism,
I would never play apologist for the fascist states of America and their genocidal war on the Palestinian people, You were the one spending all your energy browbeating everyone expressing disgust with genocide Joe and bomber Harris.
Funny hearing lectures on “what anarchism is” from a social democrat who’s more interested in purity testing leftists on lemmy than building anything outside the ballot box.
Wild how every argument with you speedruns straight to hyper-fixating on what Americas enemies are doing.
The argument here is literally about the Uyghur genocide, but nice try to whataboutism it around to your Americentric obsession.
I would never play apologist for the fascist states of America and their genocidal war on the Palestinian people, You were the one spending all your energy browbeating everyone expressing disgust with genocide Joe and bomber Harris.
I love how here you completely avoid the accusation in favor of whataboutism.
America is going down a very fascist path and supporting Israel’s genocide of Palestine. Sadly, you think that somehow justifies playing apologist for China going down a fascist path and genociding Uyghurs, or the genocide of Ukrainians.
I guess it’s GOOD genocide, unlike Israel’s BAD genocide!
Funny hearing lectures on “what anarchism is” from a social democrat who’s more interested in purity testing leftists on lemmy than building anything outside the ballot box.
Building parallel systems is something that I’ve repeatedly praised on here, but I understand that that’s inconvenient to your interest in attempting to paint me as trying to ‘purity test’ by insisting that genocide and fascism is Bad, Actually.
Keep licking boots, fascist, it’s all you’re capable of, apparently.
Dude explicitly doesn’t want to build anything outside the ballot box. In fact, he considers any alternative than capitalist liberal democracy as “fascism” and would support even violent paramilitary suppression of such. No matter what it is.
He clearly has the Fukuyama brainworms.
(I kid, thanks for the correction)
Would you like to delve deeper into this?
If you legitimately think there’s a fascist infiltration of my community, then we’ll investigate it together
you could start by actually keeping your pet Nazis banned
is “taking on admins” what we’re now calling PugJesus and (self-proclaimed member of neo-nazi forums) goat rage-posting on comms they moderate?
lol. lmao even.
I thought anarchism was about DISMANTLING power dynamics like that of a tankie admin cabal?
They are the few against th emany.
I thought anarchism
that’s because you have never read anything about anarchism and have no idea what it is. anarchism as a philosophy requires solidarity. and solidarity means a community coming together to protect itself from those bad actors who wish it harm. the freedom of association that is a core part of anarchism also means the freedom to disassociate. banning pug and goat was our community disassociating itself from someone who doesn’t wish us well and doesn’t want to be a part of us anyway. anyone who is on our matrix knows that everyone there was very supportive of the way the dbzer0 and AN admins have taken care of the situation and protected the peace of our community. nothing that has happened is at all at odds with anarchism, any more than it would be at odds with liberalism or communism.
neither pug nor goat have lost their ability to take part in fedi, an ability they have made good use of by posting constant rage posts in their own comms. a couple of sad little kings, presiding over their sad little hills.
banning pug and goat was our community disassociating itself from someone who doesn’t wish us well and doesn’t want to be a part of us anyway.
When was I banned?
I don’t wish fascists or their apologists well, nor do I make a habit of participating in their comms. Sorry that you seem to think otherwise.
/0
fascist
Considering trying out for the Olympics with that amount of mental gymnastics?
Considering trying out for the Olympics with that amount of mental gymnastics?
I’m sorry, what do you regard Uyghur genocide denial, Holodomor denial, and the support of Vanguard parties overthrowing democracy as?
Is that what anarchism is to you?
First two I simply dont see from /0 staff nor the vast majority of the users you’re delusional on both points. On the third neo liberal “democracy” isnt real and is largely a vessel for control by the capitalist oligarchic class, I do not think ML is the solution to that however.
First two I simply dont see from /0 staff nor the vast majority of the users you’re delusional on both points.
Furthermore, despite aggressively (and rightly) removing other forms of genocide denial in that comm, both Holodomor and Uyghur Genocide denial are left up in that thread, despite the participation of multiple admins and the reporting of the material.
In addition to that, both Uyghur genocide denial and Holodomor denial in that same thread are upvoted by the Dbzer0 community.
How many dbzer0 users would you like me to cite engaging in Uyghur genocide denial or Holodomor denial before you’ll concede that it might be a problem? Legitimate question, I know of a significant number, so I may be able to convince you if you’re legitimately just skeptical.
On the third neo liberal “democracy” isnt real and is largely a vessel for control by the capitalist oligarchic class, I do not think ML is the solution to that however.
Rather than being a reference to modern democratic states, the position is in relevance to the Spartacist Uprising, which proposed, in response to Germany’s defeat in WW1 and subsequent incoming elections which the KPD was not barred from running in, and which were largely spearheaded by the then-much-more-left-wing-than-the-modern-day SPD, to attempt a coup explicitly along Bolshevik lines, which had, the previous year, dissolved a democratically elected revolutionary government in Russia.
DB0 believes that this vanguardist approach is true anarchist praxis, praising ML imitators as ‘libertarian socialists’.
… you all do know that goat specifically says they just like riling people up, right?
And you’re just gobbling down the nonsense and getting riled up?
With claims of things that go directly against the rules of the instance?
This is some weird ass shit stirring going on. Enjoy your manufactured drama folks.
Just documenting important lemmy-lore
LOL sure thing bud.
Copy pasting from a comment below
@fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com explanation
FYI goat, i downvoted the post you screenshotted because the person, @isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de, made this disgusting comment and got permabanned on LW + here for it. He’s a horrible person, which is why i downvoted his post. Not because of the content.
I am not a tankie, not even hexbear/ml users consider me as such; I’ve also seen other stuff about me being a Soviet apologist (?) Which, no, from using the search feature, I have not it seems. Unless they’re including the time I was being nice to cowbee… ? Either way I personally do not have a positive opinion of the USSR but I really don’t want to get into that here.
I have also had a conversation with cowbee themselves once where I told them I disagree with them with the USSR, China and Ukraine about a week ago, so no, I am not an apologist for the Soviet union.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/21109507
From @unruffled@anarchist.nexus
To be clear, if I haven’t been already, I 100% condemn China’s actions towards the Uyghurs. Is it technically a genocide? Depends what definition you’re working with, but to my mind it meets the definition.
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/52160152/21075559
On the other hand the single mod on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works seems quite ban happy lately, and resorting to debatable arguments
My community is also bigger lol
https://sh.itjust.works/comment/20731327
And the amount of posts on !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works by that same single mod is concerning. How many of those do they need make, reusing the same screenshot ad nauseam when Unruffled recognized that China’s actions towards the Uyghur meet the definition of a genocide (see comment above)?
“They walked it back after being called out with a half-assed ‘Well, I think it meets the definition, but the West is worse so it doesn’t matter!’ after spreading common fuckwit fascist talking points and denying genocide, whilst simultaneously praising denialism of that same genocide and allowing genocide denial in comms they moderate, clearly they didn’t mean it”
Yes, clearly. /s
as proven by cm002 the bigger community is more important that is why .world will win
Someone really needs to touch grass :D
Someone really needs to touch grass :D
Went outside and touched grass as per usual; still have not become an Uyghur genocide denier, nor have I decided to allow Holodomor genocide denial, nor have I defended Vanguardist parties suppressing democracy whilst claiming to be an anarchist.
I guess it’s just you.
I was talking about the OP, but don’t let me stop you from the opportunity to lie through your teeth again :D
I was talking about the OP, but don’t let me stop you from lying through your teeth :D
Fascinating link. Watch me not saying anything of what you claim I support in there.
Illiterate and fascist. A not-uncommon combination.
Genocide supporter and a liar. The usual combination.
Genocide supporter and a liar. The usual combination.
Keep supporting Holodomor denial; we all know genocide apologism is your favorite thing to asspat. And keep upvoting Uyghur Genocide denial too - would hate for you to miss out on that feeling of smug contrarianism over the murder of minorities by red fascists, because it gets one over on “the libs” (here meaning anyone who doesn’t support red fascist genocides)
I think cm0002, the deeply scratched anti-authoritarian-communist liberal, had the political savviness to stay out of these !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com conversations. He isn’t banned from that community or instance, and he was otherwise active, so I think this was a conscious choice. Let goat & pg take the heat.
nice and comfortable
I haven’t seen any takes from that person to imply they’re a fascist. I think there’s enough beef going around without throwing more into this bonfire.
Yeah he’s just a dick about stealing memes, which is weird, because you can just say you’re “seizing the memes” from .ml and they won’t mind
“stealing memes” is not a thing lol.
It’s my understanding the user posts .ml memes to other communities not to spread the meme per se, but to discourage others from engaging with them on .ml.
The efficacy or righteousness of that is beyond my scope as a passive consumer.
He explicitly states that as his goal in reposting lemmy.ml content, and he frequently encourages people & instances to boycott/ban/defederate not only the “tankie triad” (a term that AFAIK I he coined himself), but also the entire Lemmy platform.
And he hangs out in the Nazi bar a lot.
That asshole post is fake btw
Is this the left-wing infighting the memes have forewarned about?
Lol, pugjesus and goat are nowhere near “the left”
PJ claims to be, somehow, they put “vaguely left” in their profile. They hate both Marxism and anarchism, though, and seem to always act as though they are the true judge of someone being Marxist or anarchist. They seem to love social democracy, itself right-wing. You’d think after getting disproven over and over again, they’d actually start to listen to the Marxists and anarchists, but instead they powertrip and ban all dissent. Toxic behavior, and kinda sad.
Goat, on the other hand, has never claimed to be on the left to my knowledge. They’ve openly been pretty right wing this entire time. Toxic, but not sad, seems they just want to rile people up and provoke a reaction more than anything.
Marxism and Anarchism aren’t the only way to express the left.
I consider the left to be pro-socialism, and anti-capitalism. Under that general umbrella, Marxism and anarchism are by far the largest umbrellas. There are some groups like the Zapatistas that reject both labels, and they are valid, but few in number.
Just throwing out there that you’re not the bar with which the left is measured.
I appreciate your take but you aren’t an authority and nobody here is, and almost everyone around here seems to be incapable of understanding that their specific view isn’t the ideal.
Purity tests are best left for fascism
I’m not an authority, no. Never claimed to be. However, outside of the Zapatistas, I’m not sure I can even name a leftist movement that doesn’t draw directly from Marxism or anarchism in the modern era. Marxism generally is heavily influential over those for full collectivization, while anarchism is heavily influential over those that seek horizontalism and decentralization. Groups that reject both are usually just social democrats that wish to retain capitalism.
What are the alternatives to both? Not looking to debate-bro or anything, i’m honestly curious /gen
Not who you asked, but I’d say the closest outside Zapatismo is Nkruhmahism-Touréism, which draws heavy influence from Marxism-Leninism to my understanding but takes most of its influence specifically from Kwame Nkrumah and Ahmed Touré.
That’s… obscure :D I’ve never heard of it, but it looks very interesting. From a very surface-level analysis, it looks quite similar to Nasserism, but probably less anti-communist lol
Speaking of, while we’re talking about this, what are your thoughts about Nasser/Nasserism?
Nkrumahism-Touréism is gaining in popularity among pan-African socialists, but that’s about the extent of my knowledge on the subject. Quasi-socialist national liberation movements like Nasserism are generally progressive in moving against imperialism and towards self-determination, so in that frame it’s like a more progressive Baathism. In the context of imperialism as the primary obstacle to global socialism, those groups earn more critical support than comprador regimes.
That being said, I’m far from an expert on Nasser and Nasserism, the middle east is an area I’m quite undereducated on. Hoping to learn more about African struggles in the How Europe Underdeveloped Africa reading threads, but outside of Palestinian liberation and the various factions involved with it like the PFLP, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc, my knowledge for now is too low for me to really have an opinion beyond my general support for opposition to imperialism.
I’ve never labelled myself as anything. Not right, not left, not anything.
dude that’s actually a bop
NGL having a hard time telling the different flavors of tankies apart.
I thought the db0 guys were ok, but they deny genocide A and what about Genocide B.
Then I thought the folks against db0 were ok, but turns out they approve of genocide A and deny genocide B.
Idk who needs to hear this but oppressing other people is bad regardless of who you are.
Where does db0 deny and aprove of genocide?
Idk who needs to hear this but oppressing other people is bad regardless of who you are.
Correct.
Where does db0 deny and aprove of genocide?
Don’t worry, just like the admins leaving up Holodomor denial, I’m sure that you think it’s not a ‘real’ genocide.
In the thread mentioned db0 folks deny the Uyghur genocide
aka denying one while espousing how bad another is.
Destroying a people through violence: genocide
Destroying a people through cultural erasure and sterilizations and birth rates: genocide
No they don’t. They say bad things are happening but it doesn’t meet the definition of genocide, which the United Nations and Amnesty International agree with.
So is the UN and AI now denying genocide?
The UN also says what’s happening in Gaza isn’t a genocide. Sooooooo.
This is exactly why people look down their nose at all of yall
And yes, I ask in that thread and have the parroted “THE UN AND AI AND OTHER NGOS DONT CALL IT ONE” then get lambasted for it because I’m not talking about Gaza as if I’m incapable of caring about two things at once.
Yeah they look down at us, and not PJ and Goat being totally weird about the instance they can’t bend to their will.
Yes … because of the genocide denial and militant arguments against anyone who can care about more than just the one thing yall are arguing about.
The other thing is just internet drama.
I hope that helps explain why.
Then I thought the folks against db0 were ok, but turns out they approve of genocide A and deny genocide B.
I’m ardently against the Palestinian genocide, despite the attempts of certain users to assert otherwise.
Meanwhileongrad doesn’t approve of any genocide, neither do I.
just don’t kill people, it’s pretty easy
The fact this thread has three times as many comments as total votes goes to show how well the fediverse knows the lengths to which these users will go find new targets to justify harassment.
And then say we’re the assholes for defending ourselves from the slander and insults.
Look what you made me do! This is your fault! I wouldn’t have had to do this if you just went along with this!
And then say we’re the assholes for defending ourselves from the slander and insults.
Top tier projection from my favorite fan, as always.
If you really don’t want drama then learn what you’re doing that tends to bring it on and do less of that.
Sorry for condemning genocide denial?
Watch out, he’ll call you a fascist or a Tankie for wanting him to look in the mirror!
This started with me defending myself from slander and insults and proving that your instance brigades, harass and now even post fake nude images. Your instance is even federated with Hexbear. How do you defend that?
proving that your instance brigades
I’ve never heard anyone accuse dbzer0 of brigading before, and I’m often unsure what someone considers brigading to be.
post fake nude images
I don’t understand. Are fake nude images of fake people worse than real nude images of real people?
Your instance is even federated with Hexbear. How do you defend that?
I’m sure that sounded relevant in your head, where federating with Hexbear is self-evidently a sin. If they owe you a defense, what’s the accusation?
They regularly target specific comments and threads that are linked from their snark community. Here are some recent examples of how they manipulate threads that are linked by their community.
I don’t understand. Are fake nude images of fake people worse than real nude images of real people?
I’m not fake
deleted by creator
They’re posting fake nudes of you? How would anyone on Lemmy know what you look like?
making fake nudes is certainly a new one
everyone sucks here
Only one is sending assholes to others
that’s fake
deleted by creator
I assume it’s a real photo of an asshole but I was unable to reverse-image search it, probably from something cropped
nope, never claimed it was mine, never sent such a thing, it’s a fake post dude, it’s since been deleted for being fake and currently I’m exchanging emails with admins from different instances regarding this posts circulation. I take it very seriously
@Canyon201@lemmy.world can you add that it’s fake to the thread?
Yes I have removed it. I apologize for spreading those horrible false accusations. Did they use AI to generate FAKE ASSHOLES?
i think those FAKE ASSHOLES are real
but they aint my ASSHOLE
And yet, those aren’t even the worst arguments in this shit flinging contest!
They say the democrats have voted for arming Israel continually with trump. That’s just not true but is an incredibly common tankie point I’ve seen over and over again. Democrats have voted over and over again for stopping arming Israel. Literally go look at their voting records for the past 9 months.
Dem leadership still voting for it
Did Not Vote (3 Senators): Gallego (D-AZ), Kelly (D-AZ), Slotkin (D-MI).
The following 17 Democratic Senators voted NO, choosing to continue arming an apartheid regime: Michael Bennet (D-CO), Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Cory Booker (D-NJ), Maria Cantwell (D-WA), Chris Coons (D-DE), Catherine Cortez Masto (D-NV), John Fetterman (D-PA), Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY), Maggie Hassan (D-NH), John Hickenlooper (D-CO), Alex Padilla (D-CA), Gary Peters (D-MI), Jacky Rosen (D-NV), Adam Schiff (D-CA), Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Mark Warner (D-VA), and Ron Wyden (D-OR).
17 of 50… that article doesn’t state what you think it does. And each bill has other things tacked onto it that Dems have to worry about as well. It’s not just “vote or not vote” for weapons.
If 17 if bad then 19 voting to stop weapons even last year is proving your point completely wrong. https://www.jta.org/2024/11/21/politics/19-senate-democrats-back-unsuccessful-attempt-to-block-weapons-shipments-to-israel
19 Senate Democrats back unsuccessful attempt to block weapons shipments to Israel
But of course facts don’t really matter here do they.
Vote in April: https://www.axios.com/2025/04/03/senate-democrats-cancel-military-aid-israel
Vote in June: https://ramirez.house.gov/media/press-releases/ramirez-jacobs-jayapal-pocan-18-members-congress-introduce-legislation
Notably those are the ones with terrible other stuff in them. Can’t win here.
https://time.com/7306765/democrats-senate-gaza-vote-israel-weapons/
Dem leadership is completely and utterly committed to Israel. There’s some voting no but they’re still refusing to distance themselves from Israel.
You’re also ignoring one of the non voters who missed the vote to go on a press tour about how much she hates what Israel is doing.
But yeah totally not what I think
Fucking lol
So Biden stopped the war and didn’t break federal laws to keep it going, while telling people in Israel to keep the war going?
We’re not taking about Biden. And Biden was more than 9 months ago. Learn to read. We’re talking about senators.
We’re talking Democrats, so yes we are.
We are not, we’re talking about votes, which Biden (and the president) does not do.
As we all know, the president has no sway over the party as it’s leader. He can’t veto anything either too.
The original comment in the original chain was directly about democrats in Congress voting. My comment was directly about that. You are the one changing the conversation to make it easier to attack. I am not talking about Biden, I explicitly was excluding Biden for this exact reason. This has nothing to do with Biden’s presidency and solely to do with the current democrats in Congress in the current year and absolutely nothing else. In fact I explicitly mentioned trump’s term.
Your fallacies are tiring, either stick to the conversation or bugger off.
Thank you my business is really suffering under Trump we need Gavin to bring in the AI REVOLUTION
Wow, these guys surely take “side with me fully or you’re the enemy” approach for no reason at all. db0 instance has never denied the Uyghur genocide, but people there are painting their moderation as a villain for no reason.
db0 instance has never denied the Uyghur genocide, but people there are painting their moderation as a villain for no reason.
I think the action in the YE OLD POWERTRIPPING MODS community proves the point, no?
My community never started this
Lol
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
I knew from the beginning that being able to see who votes how on what will cause some shit.
But like @givesomefucks@lemmy.world already said: block that skynet instance and be done with it.
It does seem like an obvious drama factory for people that don’t have the proper mentality of laughing at someone for bringing up votes, calling them a loser that needs to touch grass and blocking them so they don’t waste any more of your life
100% this. And so many people still say we need it because it “stops vote brigading.” Which it obviously doesn’t even do.
Meanwhile this kind of drama is getting worse, and we haven’t even scraped the surface of potential downsides yet. I, for one, can’t wait until we have armies of AI driven astroturf bots which use public voting vote to target engagement far beyond what is possible with just comments.
If you don’t want down votes to impact post visibility as much then change the algorithm to do that. Hell, give mods tools to just quietly ignore down votes entire on a case by case basis. Bothe of these things are stupidly simple and would be vastly more effective at dealing with vote brigades than mods making Pepe DaSilva sting graphs trying to root out connected users.
Its more that it does effectively nothing.
You don’t even need to run an instance to see vote history. ActivityPub federates all activity across, and lemmy does not obfuscate in any way.
Any real change to address this would have to be done much lower than whether or not lemvotes sees it.
why are you against user information and transparency? only tankies want to hide things
Its still extremely visible, that does just about nothing, FYI.
