swapping the dems in, if it were even possible (it isnt, especially now) would be like changing captains of the titanic after it hit the iceberg. its still gonna sink no matter what. its by design. the debts too big, and the game is over.
the sacrificial goat was the US, and now a new shithole state rises from the ashes. and its blue print will stretch across the world to all the US’s former allies in time.
doesnt matter whos the face of it anymore, there are contingencies on both sides that will make sure this continues no matter who gets popped.
position yourself accordingly.
This is the Paradox of Tolerance in practice.
No, I’m not, because I’m not an American and it isn’t our fucking job to fix the thing the rest of us have been telling you for decades was going to happen.
Yeah… Like, I agree a lot of the liberal “resistance” is useless but also every time I see a leftist online advocating for revolution, I’m wondering when they’re gonna kick it off.
It ain’t gonna happen until a critical mass of the population has nothing left to lose. As it stands now, revolution sounds great to me, but getting arrested or killed leaves my family impoverished and possibly homeless. Being a cog in the machine is a preferable fate
Civil-War/Rebellions/Revolution’s are massively deadly and don’t frequently resolve in the revolutionaries favor. Sometimes someone worse comes along to fill the vacuum, sometimes the state just gets to justify clamping down harder if it wins.
People who are actively working for change in concrete ways don’t often call attention to themselves by posting about it on public social media. If nobody in power is working to silence you, you’re probably participating in controlled opposition and not much else.
How incredibly convenient. Or paranoid.
Dude… why you gotta call me out like that? I was perfectly content being an online slacktivist, griping about shit I’m not actually going to do anything about and now you’ve ruined it 😠
Are there any organizations taking direct action?
People usually don’t like throwing their lives away for a 1 off act of rebellion.
There’s usually one or two people actually, but they don’t usually help their cause as much as they’d like to. That guy who missed Trump didn’t help anyone do anything except make trump almost a martyr. I had a friend who told me that he knew Trump would win after that. While I don’t think in absolutes and wasn’t as sure as him (and this was not a maga guy of the rails, this is a calm man who had more to lose than me) he was right that trump did win. Most people who assassinate a president or candidate don’t get the change they want.
They are always mentally ill. Of course they don’t. When you are over that edge it’s clear that there isn’t a whole lot of reality and humanity left in a person. Any murderer that has been analyzed or recovered explicitly mentions overriding critical thought to be able to do those deeds.
As individuals, I think the best course of action is to build a movement behind a common goal. Talk to the people around you. Talk to people online. Break up infighting and bring people together on their common grounds. When the movement becomes big enough, then everyone rebels simultaneously. One person rebelling is one life thrown away for no gains and one less person in the movement. Everyone rebelling together is what leads to real change.
Are there any organizations taking direct action?
That’s you. Organize and talk to others. You will eventually find others also organizing towards the same goal. Merge your efforts and you have a larger organization. Rinse and repeat.
The reason so many rich are financing these Neoliberal organizations to take charge is because they will never tell us to perform the necessary action to redistribute their wealth.
So we can organize under the Neoliberals or get fucked…
It’s called controlled opposition
So we can organize under the Neoliberals or get fucked…
It’s not one or the other. You can organize independently of the neoliberals.
And how much of a chance does that give independent grassroots organizations that don’t receive money from billionaires?
You know it’s more difficult to go to two different protest events on the few days, you just don’t support the things that are necessary to enact change because you are a good serf.
how much of a chance
A non-zero chance. If you have a better idea, I’m all ears. The only alternative I’m hearing is to give up, and that guarantees your chances to be zero.
You know it’s more difficult to go to two different protest events on the few days, you just don’t support the things that are necessary to enact change because you are a good serf.
Protesting is just one of many ways of building the movement. A protest tells you that there are others ready to take action. It creates conversation and an opening to talk to the people around you about it. Being at the protests is always good, but it’s not the only way to help a movement.
I’m not sure if I understood what you were saying. Regardless, I think my response makes sense for at least two possible interpretations of it.
You could not even google it – like … how … What did they do to you guys…?
I’ve got a solution, get rid of Facebook and Fox News in your Maga people’s lives. Put parental controls on their TVs if you can and try to convince them that Fox News was bought out or something. It’s the constant deluge of bullshit that’s causing this.
MAX FISHER: The places where Facebook usage - not general internet usage, but specifically Facebook usage - was significantly above the average for Germany, the number of attacks on refugees was also well above the average.
SHAPIRO: That’s author Max Fisher, who writes about this research in his new book, “The Chaos Machine.” It’s not just that violence against refugees went up in places where people used Facebook a lot. The researchers also looked at outages - Facebook disruptions - and they found that when the platform went offline in a specific place, attacks against refugees in that community dropped.
FISHER: Extended time on social media is addictive, and it changes your behavior, and it changes the way that your mind works. And it does that in a consistent direction towards more outrage, more extreme ideas and a greater hatred of us versus them.
You could wipe every reactionary television station, radio station, magazine, social media, and newspaper off the face of the earth, but capitalism’s internal contradictions would make their resurgence inevitable.
So long as wages are suppressed, social safety nets withered, wealth inequality balloons, education decays, retirement age grows, and healthcare becomes unattainable, the backside into fascism is inevitable.
How do you think fascism took hold in Germany, and how was it mitigated?
Your analysis falls into the same trap as other liberal analysis - that our means of changing our politics is a function of “changing people’s minds” in “the marketplace of ideas”. Liberal analysis champions the notion that “ideas” are what turn the wheels of history. In reality, it was Soviet T34s blasting Nazis into mist that mitigated German fascism - not some completely unachievable and unpragmatic scheme to break into retirement homes across the country and put parental controls on grandpa’s favorite flavor of right wing pundit TV.
How’d “not voting to punish the dems” work last time?
It’s really weird to blame individuals for the failures of an organization. They can plan and change and strategize. The random voter your screaming at is a void. Stop being angry at the void, be angry at the thing that can actually change and do something.
voting only works if you also put in the work after the fact. When biden got elected, suddenly all the political fervor of the previous ~4 years vanished. And, assuming we get out of the current morass in one piece, it’s likely that all the uproar going on now will similarly disappear once “our guy” is in the oval office again.
Voting is the least any person can do, but without pounding the pavement and going out and doing the legwork, it’s just a bone they throw to us so we shut up. It happens every time, in every presidential election I can remember, and yet there are still people out here saying “but dae vote or dont complain!!:!:!:!:!”!“!”!?!!:!L!". It’s insulting.
There are few, if any, actually effective political movements that relied solely on officially approved political avenues to achieve anything. The Civil Rights movement in the US didn’t merely vote until the federal government deigned them worthy of being treated like human beings; they got out in the streets and demanded equality. The Indian Independence movement didn’t succeed by only appealing to the official colonial political apparatus using whatever methods were allowed them. They went and earned it.
So, whenever the liberal voting bloc is ready to stop letting themselves be politically infantilized by the electoral process, get at me.
NGL memes like this just read like Doomer Cope and Fascist propaganda.
Uh… it’s either or? Doomer cope is what it openly is, while masquerading for faschism therefore being propaganda?
Oh, that’s because that’s exactly what it is
Ooh, anti-democracy propaganda started early this cycle. I guess cons aren’t so sure about this one so they had to start this voting supression psyop this time of the year.
Americans have so thoroughly bought into the notion that democracy means an entrenched two-party system, that they instinctively view any suggestion to the contrary as “anti-democracy”.
Virtually every other functioning democracy in the world manages to maintain legislative houses with anything from 6-20 parties represented in Government, but somehow you’ve created a self-fulfilling prophecy where it’s impossible for you to have because it’s impossible for you to have.
It’s cool in theory. In practice, US is a two-party system, and a regular person can’t do shit about it. So you either vote for least bad party and organise and campaign to improve something, or you vote for most bad party and spend the whole time trying to survive while the most bad party kills most vulnerable people.
It’s a shit system, US is deeply fucked. However, you don’t go about fixing it by not understanding how it worksa regular person can’t do shit about it
Regular people can do everything about it. It just needs for people to stop telling them they can’t.
I’ll vote blue out of harm reduction, not out of hope.
IF there’s another real election, and IF the Neoliberals win, they’ll do NOTHING to reign in the capitalists that fund the fascists because they’re bribed to protect the “free market,” just as the Fascists are.
All them winning in 2028 might do is buy a little time before the Fascists are on the march the following cycle. That’s why it’s ignorant when people claim the only reason we’re collapsing is Trump. Reagan set the table for fascism and every president since has furthered that outcome. Whether this happened in 2020,2024, 2028, this was happening.
So vote for the Neoliberals all you want. I do it out of the starfish parable, to one delayed fascist action, it matters, but we’re still in a capitalist fascist hell, and until we have something to vote or riot for that will bring the capital markets to cinder, nothing can improve. You should feel like throwing up after voting here.
When you vote neoliberal democratic party, nothing fundamentally changes, and shit system isn’t fixed. When you don’t, armed vans are roaming around the cities putting non-white people in concentration camps somewhere abroad.
You can boast your moral superiority all you want, but those are the choices, and every person with a sliver of morality should spend all their waking second to prevent one of those choices to happen again, more.
The “everyone is the same, voting is pointless, if you vote you are a sheep that doesn’t see the moral truth” posts are doing the opposite of that, and when the opposite is encluraged, you get the worse choice, the one that hates you and actively working on killing you.There’s also not-insignificant evidence coming to light suggesting out voting is already compromised. Several counties have ridiculously anomalous voting patterns based on their investigation. Congress is already borked, and the Senate never seems to make a good decision, and the supreme Court is bought and paid for. I’m going to vote for the lesser of two evils because doing anything else is pointless, and also maybe is that vote. I highly doubt the people are going to be allowed to continue their voting fraud investigation, or make anything happen to those responsible even if the evidence becomes insurmountable.
I’m personally afraid that there’s no coming back. Trump (take 2) is the result of a broken system, not the cause. But I’ll continue doing my part in hopes that I’m wrong. I can’t afford to expatriate.
You heard it here first folks: this guy says don’t vote its not worth it it doesnt matter anyway they dont count it they’ll cheat anyway
I feel like I remember saying the exact opposite actually… Hold on, let me check.
I’m going to vote for the lesser of two evils because doing anything else is pointless,
But I’ll continue doing my part in hopes that I’m wrong.
Yep turns out I did. Yes, I absolutely have concerns that it won’t make a difference, but I’m not delusional enough to think doing absolutely nothing is a viable option. I think there’s a chance we can recover, but I’m also afraid we might not.
I want the two party system to die, but right now our only option is to try and vote in true progressives until they remove the parts of the system that keep the status quo. Yes, I said vote them in, because I think it’s still the best current option. It’s slow, and it sucks, and there will still be a ton more damage done before anything (hopefully) changes for the better, but I’m not giving up. Just expressing my fears and thoughts. Iowa’s recent election shows that voting still works, at the very least, in the smaller elections.
To reiterate: I, and everyone capable of doing so, should still vote. Who knows, maybe we can get enough independent Congress seats filled to eventually have an actual say in what happens.
But you can understand my frustrations right? These people are breaking the law, refusing to follow scotus rulings, committing war crimes, and a great deal of people are cheering for it, and not a single consequence is being dished out to those who deserve it. The rule of law has never to my knowledge been so flagrantly ignored in American history.
I’ll continue to participate in democracy, but I won’t truly believe it’s working until crimes and behavior is answered for, and those currently in power are properly held to account.
Eat poo no matter who!
Unmute this meme immediately!
We get it. You don’t like liberal Dems.
Make your own party. Go. Do something.
do anything please
Tankies love to post these memes about how it’s hopeless to resist fascism and there’s nothing we can do, but what they like to forget is that we leftists have the option of rising against the state, not just by voting, but also by organising for general strikes, civil disobedience, and armed revolution.
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Check again
Why ankles when it could be necks?
Morbid jokes aside. I agree, nothing will change without intense and painful protest or revolution. Peaceful protest only works when your opposition has a conscience.
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Yeah that’s fair. Not normally a fan of tradition, but I’d be happy make an exception here.
“Me” is also one of the “grey NPCs” sooo
Still wondering, are leftists just going to share memes or is this suggesting we start building bombs? The message I keep getting is that voting alone doesn’t work, that liberals, even liberal protests, don’t work, that peaceful resistance doesn’t work.
So like… Who here is actually thinking of blowing something up or assassinating someone? Are we just talking big while looking around for someone to move first?
Even then, where are the Luigi copycats? If we are so much more effective than liberals, why the hell aren’t we doing anything?
the circles of people organizing and making plans, and the people talking about it in random surveilled spaces form a venn diagram with no overlap. even as the circles of people present here and the people who are fighting in meaningful ways probably do have overlap
Where are these people? I don’t see them here but I just don’t see them anywhere. No buildings have blown up in DC, and the people we see who have attempted an assassination are loose lone wolves with conservative/ non-aligned backgrounds. Yes, even Luigi.
Please, show me evidence of an American black hand.
I have no idea how big or growing they are, but if I did and stated evidence here I would be doing them a massive disservice. Even right wingers don’t talk openly of their plans for violence despite nearly having a free pass in comparison. Are you just trying to get people banned or something?
Or maybe the simpler answer is that they don’t exist.
That’s the catch-22. They’re apparently around, but nobody can talk about it because if they do they’ll ruin their opsec or whatever.
So how do we even know it’s real. Nobody has done anything to indicate that any real resistance exists. They could put up flags or do some kind of public thing that indicates there’s a resistance out there. But nope. Nothing.
And I don’t think people should be blowing up federal buildings (unless they’re empty of federal workers who are 99% just normal people). Not only is that just wrong, but it would do nothing but hurt the cause in the eyes of the rest of the country.
I am the Pope and you can’t prove I am not/s
Well… You’re not wrong.
But they are. Think what the message is implying here. Don’t do the things that are actually important to actually pull votes to your side. There’s no point since it’s all rigged. This post is propaganda.
This post is like some political consultant group found things that could sway an election and turn tides and then inverted it to imply those things are just silly
This post is propaganda.
So is this reply. Also being propaganda is funny in this case since nothing here says anything about not voting, just that currently the two party system has broken down and no longer feels like democracy (due to how it is not). In this case who would the propaganda be for? The democrats? Not likely, they are not helped here. The republicans? Don’t think they care, many don’t plan on having fair elections again. Big molotov?
This helps Republicans. You’re not going to see that. But that’s why the left is in the situation they are in. You’re all still in the stone age that you’re not relevant anymore. It’s not that the Democrats are shit. The entire left are so far behind that they won’t catch up anytime soon
Not a democrat, not even an american.
The us is no longer a democracy, and is fast becoming the next global pariah state.
It’s still a democracy. There is still a lot of order and authority keeping things running. It’s just a shit show right now. But places like Lemmy and other social media radicalizing people are trying to undo it
That’s not what a democracy is. North Korea has a lot of order and authority keeping things running as well for example.
Every form of government requires that.
But it’s not helpful to doom about these things.
You’re right. Everything’s ok.
/s
Dude, the US is on fire. Pointing out that there’s a sewage leak is unhelpful.
If you look at a forest fire, you can’t do anything, so the thing is to weather it out/ contain it and try to prevent it happening. Looking at a trash can fire, you try to put it out before it gets out of hand.
I dunno, acknowledging the problems seems like a good start
Everyone I know is already aware of the fact that we’re bracing through a torrent of garbage. I’m terrified that reluctant voters are going to choose the party that will turn the pressure higher or ignore the flesh stripping blast. My skin has peeled to the bone. Throwing suspicion at the only people capable of closing the valve is not relevant to me.
A prerequisite to getting into a position where one is “capable of closing the valve” is to prove, beyond any doubt, that they are not a person who could ever dream of closing that valve. Even a little bit.
You are being one of those “ignore the flesh stripping blast” as you tell others that “throwing suspicion” is “not relevant”. Motherfucker we’ve been throwing a lot more than just suspicion at them for 50+ years and they won’t do shit. I’m glad you’ve got enough bodies between you and that nozzle so that the level of inaction is irrelevant to you, but that’s not true for your shields.
Dude, we’re a decent proportion of the way into the transition to fascism. Your absence of situational awareness and reading comprehension is going to sway people toward cranking up the pressure. Again.
In what world does my saying that my flesh has been stripped to the bone indicate that I haven’t been affected? Read between the lines, ya doofus
If they’re capable of closing the valve, why haven’t they? They either complain they don’t have the votes to make a difference; or when they do have the votes, they say “this is the time to compromise” or whatever lame excuse to continue to do nothing.
Lemmy has been chock-full of these memes critical of the dems since the election. How much more of this “good start” is needed before people move on to the next step (whatever it might be)?
I agree with that sentiment too.
Voting harder would have unironically prevented this situation.
